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Asking about other people (feelings, intentions, etc)

solivini

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Hey everyone. I hope you are all well.

I was just thinking about how many questions in regards to divination tend to center around others: How they feel, what is going to happen in this relationship, do they love me, will we get back together...and the list goes on.

I wanted to just open up a discussion about how others feel about asking these types of questions. When using the search function to look up hexagrams I've received, I've noticed (and received) advice that it really isn't prudent to ask about other people.

Now, I do feel that it is entirely invasive to ask about someone that is oblivious to being asked about. Perhaps the person in question doesn't believe in divination, or perhaps they simply pay no attention to it, or maybe the querent is trying to gain knowledge that they shouldn't be privy to.

If I'm asking about a certain person, it is usually the same person. But, this person KNOWS I ask about him. You may say, well then why can't you just ask him yourself? I have and I usually end up asking him eventually, (and I must say here, that the input I receive is spot on) but there are times when I really feel like I need some insight on how to proceed. During times where we are not talking and I'm trying to gain insight, that's when I usually ask. He knows I'm doing this, and has stated that he does not mind.

I guess my question is, is it ok to ask about another person if they don't know you're asking? I do feel this is somewhat invasive. But, if the person knows you're asking and accepts that as part of who you are, is this more acceptable?

Eager to hear your thoughts and inspirations.
 

gene

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It's a good question. It does bring up some serious issues. One thing about asking about others is, are we really asking about them? Or only how they relate to us? If the position is the latter I personally don't see anything wrong with it, but I could be wrong. If for example, I were to ask about somebody's motives I would be asking only in terms of wanting to protect myself. It is another thing to ask in order that we might find a way to circumvent their plans for the sake of our own. But it truly is a good question.
 

Sixth Relative

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Now, I do feel that it is entirely invasive to ask about someone that is oblivious to being asked about.

This is a quite common view in Western culture, at it's all right if that is your culture. Since you are inmerse on that culture, you understand some answers as an advice that is not prudent to ask about other people BECAUSE you are reading those answers with those lens.

There are other cultures and point of views, though. Most of all chinese tools for divination (not only Yijing but Qi Men Dun Jia, Da Liu Ren, Xiao Liu Ren, Tai Yi, etc) were used to gain insight and advantage over others, both in war and politics. They didn't question whether that was "invasive" :D

So, my personal take on this is that everyone should follow it's own way and respect other's practice. But certainly, one should never go against one's own conscience: if your culture/moral/values consider invasive to ask about others without their previous knowledge and permission, then your Yijing practice should be coherent with that.

It's also true that even whitout any moral objection, most of the time asking about other's feelings/intents is not the wiser use of the Yijing. This is the case when asking the Yi is done out of desperation, delusion and to avoid dealing with relationship issues in an adult manner. And yes, public forums are full of those cases.
 

solivini

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You bring up an interesting point about other cultures' point of views regarding gaining advantage, Sixth Relative. The Art of War was written to instruct on how to proceed and be victorious when facing an enemy. Youre right; there certainly is no worry about being invasive in many Chinnese texts and divination methods. Thanks so much for bringing that up.
 

solivini

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Thanks for your thoughtful response, gene. I hadn't ever really thought about it that way before. Now that I'm a little more aware of what my true motive likely is (to protect myself) I am going to keep this in mind in the future.
 
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Hi, I have considered this matter a lot, too.
When I ask, "What are the motives of X regarding Y?" , I am really asking for my own INTELLIGENCE and INTUITION to be cleared of illusions, so that I can judge and perceive clearly.
I believe the Yi answers in such a way as to allow me to gain access to deeper levels of my own understanding, by dissolving the blocks thereto.
Yet, there's a difference between that kind of question -- which arises frequently in the iching consultations -- and a kind of manipulation or "spying" kind of question, in which we delude ourselves into believing we can get secret knowledge of another person's private life.
Consider it, if you have something in your heart, which is private, and which you do not divulge to others, would you want another person to be able to learn of these deeply buried areas of private concern through the Yi?
The Yi is based on certain ethical principles, I believe, and to try to manipulate or distort these principles for our own private reasons -- (as in "spying" on the inner lives of others) -- will only backfire.
I could articulate this point more clearly , perhaps -- but I hope you get what I mean.
 

iams girl

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I've noticed (and received) advice that it really isn't prudent to ask about other people.

Hi Solvini,

Similarly to what others said, I'd ask, "what is the motivation for getting inside another's head?" For example, is the issue maybe more about how to deal with the other not meeting one halfway? Or, does the questioner maybe need more guidance on where personal boundaries of responsibility end? Ultimately, things usually end up coming down to a decision about whether the other person will change their behavior pattern or not (usually not). Maybe asking Yi about someone else helps with seeing a bigger picture of a situation, but the issue is still more realistically about what one is going to do in response which is why advice is usually to stick to questions about one's own work toward maintaining or making other plans.
 

Tim K

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I believe that you can ask about anything, there are no rules and limits in conversation with Yi. Explore it, use it as you wish, in a spirit of 4.5 → 59 (Dispersing), Richmond: Immature experience brings advantage.

And I agree with others, you probably won't gain much from these answers about others, it can be hard to decrypt. So it would be more useful to ask about your attitude and best approach to situations.

On a spiritual level - there are no others, we are really like leafs on a tree, and there are really no secrets.
I hope that someday we will evolve to a state (which is depicted in D.Cannon's books, regressive hypnosis)
where all people have mind reading ability and telepathy and lying is simply impossible. And you know what - it leads to a real h11, social equality, harmony and prosperity.
I think that only an ego can have secrets and be afraid that others won't love it for that.
And only an ego can judge others to be happier about itself.

So in a higher sense, there are no boundaries, everything is accessible, all souls are connected.
 

gene

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Hi, I have considered this matter a lot, too.
When I ask, "What are the motives of X regarding Y?" , I am really asking for my own INTELLIGENCE and INTUITION to be cleared of illusions, so that I can judge and perceive clearly.
I believe the Yi answers in such a way as to allow me to gain access to deeper levels of my own understanding, by dissolving the blocks thereto.
Yet, there's a difference between that kind of question -- which arises frequently in the iching consultations -- and a kind of manipulation or "spying" kind of question, in which we delude ourselves into believing we can get secret knowledge of another person's private life.
Consider it, if you have something in your heart, which is private, and which you do not divulge to others, would you want another person to be able to learn of these deeply buried areas of private concern through the Yi?
The Yi is based on certain ethical principles, I believe, and to try to manipulate or distort these principles for our own private reasons -- (as in "spying" on the inner lives of others) -- will only backfire.
I could articulate this point more clearly , perhaps -- but I hope you get what I mean.


Our intentions have a lot to do with the answers we get and how we interpret them. If we have false or negative intentions or intend personal gain at the expense of others, the answer we get may be literally true, and yet totally false. The subconscious mind is much, much more powerful than the conscious mind, and determines subtly how the conscious mind interprets the answer. I think it was Richard Wilhelm who once told the story about a leader in China who asked if the time was right to attack a certain other leader, and he got hexagram 60 line two. So he followed the advice, came out of his fortress, attacked the enemy and was soundly defeated. Was the reading incorrect? Or was it time for the leader who asked the question, to die? Who knows? I do not believe the reading was wrong. The leader was following his own purposes, and not that of the Tao, and he suffered the consequences. So we must all search our own hearts and decide what the Tao would want us to know in a given circumstance. The Tao is favorable to all humanity, not just certain individuals.
 

rosada

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No matter what question I've asked, I've never had a book (or a computer) explode in my hands when I asked it.
 

gene

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I believe that you can ask about anything, there are no rules and limits in conversation with Yi. Explore it, use it as you wish, in a spirit of 4.5 → 59 (Dispersing), Richmond: Immature experience brings advantage.

And I agree with others, you probably won't gain much from these answers about others, it can be hard to decrypt. So it would be more useful to ask about your attitude and best approach to situations.

On a spiritual level - there are no others, we are really like leafs on a tree, and there are really no secrets.
I hope that someday we will evolve to a state (which is depicted in D.Cannon's books, regressive hypnosis)
where all people have mind reading ability and telepathy and lying is simply impossible. And you know what - it leads to a real h11, social equality, harmony and prosperity.
I think that only an ego can have secrets and be afraid that others won't love it for that.
And only an ego can judge others to be happier about itself.

So in a higher sense, there are no boundaries, everything is accessible, all souls are connected.

I for one, would be totally disinterested in a world where everyone knew what everyone else is thinking. Of course, when we all reach Nirvana, or liberation, or whatever you want to call it, we will know. But right now, we are not ready for that. The world as we know it, would be impossible. Perfection would be wonderful in its own way, but imperfect people cannot be perfect, and it would bore most of us to tears. Some day, we will be ready for that. Right now we are not. And I not only do not want everyone to know my thoughts, I certainly don't want to know everyone else's That would not be a good world to live in at this point in time. (That being said, science is advancing to the point where the government can now use machines to read people's minds, but of course, not everywhere, not all of the time.)
 

solivini

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Hi, I have considered this matter a lot, too.
When I ask, "What are the motives of X regarding Y?" , I am really asking for my own INTELLIGENCE and INTUITION to be cleared of illusions, so that I can judge and perceive clearly.
I believe the Yi answers in such a way as to allow me to gain access to deeper levels of my own understanding, by dissolving the blocks thereto.
Yet, there's a difference between that kind of question -- which arises frequently in the iching consultations -- and a kind of manipulation or "spying" kind of question, in which we delude ourselves into believing we can get secret knowledge of another person's private life.
Consider it, if you have something in your heart, which is private, and which you do not divulge to others, would you want another person to be able to learn of these deeply buried areas of private concern through the Yi?
The Yi is based on certain ethical principles, I believe, and to try to manipulate or distort these principles for our own private reasons -- (as in "spying" on the inner lives of others) -- will only backfire.
I could articulate this point more clearly , perhaps -- but I hope you get what I mean.

Thank you for your response. I do get what you mean. I tend to agree with this somewhat.
 

solivini

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Iams girl, I really agree with what you're saying here. I feel that when I'm asking, I'm trying to figure out what would be the best move in the big picture. What you've said here about questioning whether or not the others behavoir will change really resonated with me. Im guilty of asking such questions, and you are right that their behavoir usually doesn't change. But, this does give me insight :)
 

solivini

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Gene, you make such an excellent point here. I feel that I too would be disinterested in a world where everyone knew what everyone else was thinking.

I feel that this thought stems from accepting the contrast that we have entered into in this world. I have this idea (and this is is solely a personal philosophy) that we chose to come into this world as individuals, to be seperate from one another so that we can grow and expand. I also feel that we are all one on a vibrational or soul level, if you will. Here on earth as human beings, we have the opportunity to experience separateness for the greater good. I'm not sure if I've explained this in written form as it is laid out in my head, but the point is, I totally get you.
 

solivini

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On a spiritual level - there are no others, we are really like leafs on a tree, and there are really no secrets [...]
So in a higher sense, there are no boundaries, everything is accessible, all souls are connected.

I love how you've explained this.
 

gene

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Gene, you make such an excellent point here. I feel that I too would be disinterested in a world where everyone knew what everyone else was thinking.

I feel that this thought stems from accepting the contrast that we have entered into in this world. I have this idea (and this is is solely a personal philosophy) that we chose to come into this world as individuals, to be seperate from one another so that we can grow and expand. I also feel that we are all one on a vibrational or soul level, if you will. Here on earth as human beings, we have the opportunity to experience separateness for the greater good. I'm not sure if I've explained this in written form as it is laid out in my head, but the point is, I totally get you.


Yes, until we are totally free of ego, and have learned all of our spiritual lessons, we will continue to come back here and learn. We need to not know what others are thinking (for the most part anyway) until we have been through all of our "trials."
 

solivini

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Yes, until we are totally free of ego, and have learned all of our spiritual lessons, we will continue to come back here and learn. We need to not know what others are thinking (for the most part anyway) until we have been through all of our "trials."

What you've said here reminds me of something. I like to listen to Abraham Hicks occasionally. One of the lessons I've heard that seems to stick with me is that it's really none of our business what other people think about us, and even in a relationship with another it's about our relationship to ourself and what we are bringing to the relationship. It's so hard for me to not care what other people are thinking and feeling about me, so this must be one of my trials. I suppose the first step in fixing a problem is recognizing it :)
 

gene

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What you've said here reminds me of something. I like to listen to Abraham Hicks occasionally. One of the lessons I've heard that seems to stick with me is that it's really none of our business what other people think about us, and even in a relationship with another it's about our relationship to ourself and what we are bringing to the relationship. It's so hard for me to not care what other people are thinking and feeling about me, so this must be one of my trials. I suppose the first step in fixing a problem is recognizing it :)


It's a problem we all have, and in fact is a good part of the reason why we are here. To let go of our ego. And to a certain extent I think we do have to care. I wouldn't quit taking showers because I don't care how others feel. I know that is a little extreme of an example, but anyway... We have to be who we are. And here is a major problem for humans. We can see in a lot of ways everyone else, but we can't see ourselves. As such, we try so hard to change other people, especially in relationships, and never spend any time trying to change ourselves. And when we realize we need to change ourselves, and do, suddenly our relationships and our perceptions change as well. We as humans go about so many things backwards. We need to understand ourselves, only then can we understand others. This would help us a lot in our relationships, and in many other ways.
 

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