Big dilema...

[veronica]

Hello Friends,

I have recently been wondering were my current relationship is going.. When I first met my partner he asked me if I ever wanted to have children (I'm in my mid thirties, he is 10 years older), I said yes. He at the time also said he wanted them but after I moved in with him almost a year ago he made a couple of comments that really made me wonder and whenever I bring up the subject he does everything to avoid the issue, either by making a joke of it or by just ignoring it. I asked the Yi what would happen if I again ask my partner about coming off the pill to which I got a single hexagram 60. I understood it as him trying to impose limitations on the idea so then I asked a more general question What I should do in this situation if I want to have children? The answer I got was Hexagram 56.3.5 to 12. I'm a little puzzled here as I seem to be getting some conflicting messages here from leaving the current situation to the possibility of success... Hexagram 12 is a one negative bugger if you ask me though so I really need your help here, I've been really struggling with my thoughts recently...

 

[kevin]

Hi Veronica

It is possible that he is frightened of this area. Many men are. This might explain his behaviour. A counsellor would be likely to tell you to pick a quiet time when you feel he is less stressed and more open and to gently raise the subject. Possibly even indirectly at first. Ways of doing this might be to discuss a friend who has a baby, the difficulties and the way they manage it etc.

It is not always best to try to open the subject and reach full discussion on the first try. If you sense resistance it might be better to try again later. Forcing the issue is not the best way to help someone get past their resistance.

The above approach is precisely what Hexagram 60 says.

--Kevin

 

[kevin]

56.3.5 ~ 12



The relating hexagram is not necessarily the ?end position? or oracle. Mostly the ?oracle? is held in the changing lines.

More often the relating hexagram is the overall situation.

You are already obstructed and so 12 would seem to represent the overall time very well.

(BTW it is not so negative when one is running into danger and it blocks the movement.)

56 Speaks of wandering on a quest and feeling cut off or outside of the place of belonging.

The key advice here is not to enter into contention and argument. That is, again, not to force things, but to try to rise others awareness by enlightening them gently.

Line three is a warning not to frighten people off by being overly heated or passionate about matters. Essentially is says if you get heated about it you will frighten them away.

The nuclear hexagram of 56 is 28 ? Great traverses. This is the motivating energy which propels the time of 56. It is a time when things become overfull and force one to be on the outside, to feel or be a wanderer trying to fulfil ones quest.

Line five says that you an achieve what you seek with one try? That you have the skill and wherewithal to ?shoot the pheasant with one arrow?. This line represents the ultimate of success for the one who quests in this time.

This reading seems to be an expansion of your previous one. Both are in accord.

It looks like you have green lights all of the way...

I wish you well

--Kevin

 

[bradford_h]

Hi Kevin-
I want to insert a cautionary note on the use of the word "Obstruction" referring to Gua 12. This is an unfortunate association that has crept into the English language tradition. This word implies opposing forces rather than simply going in opposite directions. The image of 12 is Heaven and Earth going their separate ways. They are moving apart, not opposing, obstructing or interacting. That's the problem and the word Obstruction doesn't recognize it.
Pi3 is indeed a negative, but more in the sense of abandonment than conflict.

 

[schastlivchik]

Here are a few suggestions.

There are a few ways to look at the hexagram 60. If the inner Dui represents you as a couple, then the Kan trigram represents a baby. Water is birthed by metal. The picture of parents birthing a child. Yet water is very weak in the hot summer season, and so is metal. So the idea of having a baby doesn't seem to fit, or get support from, the time.

If the inner Dui represents you and the outerKan represents him, then we can clearly see how you( metal) birthing him (water) is supportive and nurturing for him and tiring for you (on this subject). Which explains why you are so supportive of the idea and he is elusive, thus having a tiring effect on you.

If the hexagram represents you going off the pill to create a baby, then we have a picture of Kan, a male, and Dui, a female, with no changing line. No change or creation. Once again, this emphasizes the quality of the present time... not optimum for getting pregnant.

If Dui represents you, it also represents the mouth and Kan represents him,it also represents the ears, the weak metal and water indicates now is not the time for this conversation to have a strong positive effect on making a baby, as words are weak, and any response will be weak.

With the prevalence of so many such signs, it seems that things may not turn out the way you expect, at least for now.

While I hesitate to mention it, there is always the possbility that you may find a new partner one day. The Traveling Hexagram, changing to 12 is a clear picture of this possibility. Hexagram 12 is the image of the Creative and the Receptive--- the pure mother and father symbols.

I hope all works out well for you!

Schastlivchik

 

[veronica]

Wow, some amazing responses, guys what would I have done without you!

Kevin - you are right, speaking to him on the subject feels like threading on a VERY thin ice. I always understood for the primary hexagram to represent the current situation, the changing lines the options available to me at this time and the relating hexagram the final future outcome. Am I totally out of line here? I can definitely sense that forcing the issue on him will end up in no good at all and yes I can get heated and overly emotional about the matter so I now fully understand the warning, what I'm trying to figure out is whether he will change his mind in the future if I wait. You seem to be positive on that, I hope you are right!

Bradford suggests that 12 indicates sense of abandonment. How do I interpret it? Abandonment of the conflict (i.e. sorting things out) or of the idea of having kids with this man and moving on.. (heart bleeding already)

Schastlivchik tends to agree with Bradford I think (wow, great ability to play with the images Schastlivchik, I totally cannot do that), with hexagram 56 representing me as being in this situaltion temporarily as a wanderer and eventually abandoning the problem altogether and moving on?? I'm getting into a dark mood I think.

 

[kevin]

Hi Veronica

I think you will find that it is fairly well accepted that the resulting hexagram is not always the outcome. Indeed I find it seldom is.

I am not sure why you are blue!

The reading has a lot of hope.

Brads comment is interesting but I would say it is only a nuance here.

I liked much of what Schlastovchik said except that it missed the core advice of hexagram 60 on how to manage the time and the fact that it would lead to success. Their approach also did not start from the point of your question but assumed an open area of enquiry. This can lead to inaccuracies when doing readings for others. A wonderfully creative approach which I enjoyed tho?.

The second casting was also very positive. With both castings together you had very good advice on how best to get the outcome you desire.


Dark moods will do nothing for you. I do hope you make a plan go slowly and do your best.

I am fairly certain your readings were positive.

Wishing you the best in this.

--Kevin

 

[kevin]

Hi Brad

Thanks for that observation.

Interesting. As you know I normally seat my readings in trigram symbolism? lol

Indeed Qian and Kan separating would not indicate Obstruction at all in the sense that we would normally use the word? More like a void of energy.

However I see Ritsema Karcher give Pi as: Closed. Stopped, bar the way, obstacle, unfortunate, ?.

Also Wu Jing Nuan gives it as: To close or to stop.

I tend to regard trigrams as the key to meaning so am very much of a mind to stand corrected and to agree with you. Also grateful for it.

But it seems to me that there is something more than a bad habit that has crept into English here when two very competent translations qualify themselves with, presumably, carefully picked alternative words.

Could there be another agent at work here? Chinese tradition? Or has the meaning changed over time?

Or is the error so deeply embedded as it seems to be with me who ignored trigram logic here!

--Kevin

 

[bradford_h]

Etymologically, it's "to say no", the Mouth radical plus Bu, not - to negate or deny is probably closest to the original meaning.
I've hidden all my Chinese resources from myself so I can concentrate on another work, so I can't say what Karlgren or Schuessler say about it.
b

 

[kevin]

Thanks

I guess it is time I started reading those texts.

Bu + Mouth - Not a time for the oracle to speak even!? - Well... In Extremis - Then it must be Stagnation indeed.

A new project? - Hope it is in this field - Wish you the best with it.

Cheers

--Kevin