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Blog post: Deeper waters

hilary

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I enjoy the basement of Oxford’s remaindered/discount book shop – all kinds of entertaining things end up there. My latest trip yielded The Psychic Tourist by William Little, a journalistic book in which he investigates one claim after another*(psychics, mediumship, remote viewing…), typically finding good stories that turn out to be wildly selective retellings, or studies with methodological holes fit to drive a bus through.

So perhaps it’s not so surprising that by the time he gets to his chapter on superstition, he abandons his ‘open minded investigation’ stance and simply enquires into how and when people are weak-minded enough to believe in lucky charms and rituals and things that obviously aren’t real. Here’s what he has to say about its causes:

‘Superstition is clearly not restricted to primitive peoples who have no other way of understanding how the world works, though these people can show us how superstition actually functions. Take the Trobriand islanders of Melanesia, off the coast of New Guinea, studied by Polish psychologist Bronislaw Malinowski in the 1900s. Malinowski found that when events were outside the islanders’ control they resorted to superstition. While observing the fishermen at work, he noticed that when sailing in lagoons or close to the shore, the men relied entirely on their skill and experience to control their boats and locate fish. On venturing into the open sea, however, these same fishermen began using magical rituals, faced as they now were with unpredictable hazards – exactly the type of superstitious behaviour in the face of anxiety and uncertainty that is very much alive today.’

‘These same fishermen…’ – extraordinary transformation!

I imagine you see what I see here, so I won’t add much commentary.

The fishermen (and the university student with the ‘lucky pen’ he goes on to interview) transform as if by magic into superstitious primitives when in an unpredictable, uncertain situation; one that’s largely outside their control. Which is another way of saying that it’s outside the realm of dependable cause and effect: if I do x, I will always get y. If I adjust the sail thus, the boat will certainly go this way; if I revise thoroughly, I’ll certainly be able to think clearly and remember everything under exam conditions. Only it might not, and I might not – and to imagine that we can one day live in a world with all its deep oceans filled in, free from undercurrents, all within our understanding and under our control, really would be superstitious.

When we seek to stretch ourselves, we push the boat out into deeper waters, and go to places beyond the comfort-lagoon-zone where we can’t control outcomes. To navigate here, we relate to our surroundings with metaphor, not mechanics – through ritual, or a reading we can carry with us as guiding principle.

(Little’s story of the university student reminds me…

In my own first Finals papers, I used an old fountain pen, and spent the whole of German prose struggling to restore the flow of ink to my pen, and the flow of German vocabulary to my brain. Failed on both counts. I went and bought a beautiful new pen before the literature papers, and then ink and ideas flowed smoothly.)
 
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heylise

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Superstition is a wonderful way to make your pigheaded brain think the way you want it to think. Fear or whatever else makes your brain believe you will not get your exam right, or drive that car, or write that piece, or jump over that ditch. So you get something, a rabbit's foot or an I Ching answer or an astrological prediction to make that still quite primitive brain forget all its fears and do what it is supposed to do.

Does that rabbit's foot or I Ching answer actually tell you the truth? Yes, it does. It passes by your small thinking and talks to your deeper knowing. Or maybe your deeper childish belief, which is so much bigger than that limited thinking.

Rational thinking gets all the credit for what humanity achieved, but they are all wrong. It is magic which did it all. Creativity loves magic. Inventing the wheel is magic. The rational part is just the tool creativity uses, not the origin.
 
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sooo

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oracle bone

Those of us who reside in the US (and Canada) are familiar with Thanksgiving Day. One of the little rituals that accompanied this day was a grand size Turkey for dinner. Another ritual was saving the wishbone, two people holding one side of the bone and pulling it toward yourself until the bone split in two, and making a wish. The side with the center attached to the bone wins their wish.

This has nothing to do with Thanksgiving Day or turkeys, but with a chicken soup I made. I saved the little wishbone and perched it (no pun intended) on a window shelf to dry. Days later, I picked it up and decided it was time to reap my good fortune. Can’t lose when you’re holding both sides, heh. So, firmly grasping each leg of the bone with each hand, I gave it quick snap! The center piece flew up into the air, and I was left holding not one but two short ends of the stick. Fate can not be duped. And who believes in that wishbone stuff anyway?
 

hilary

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This means your luck is taking off - right?
 

pocossin

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sooo

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This means your luck is taking off - right?

I interpreted it more like:

"SPLITTING APART.
It doesn't further one
To go anywhere."

or maybe

"Thus the two halves move away from each other, giving rise to the idea of conflict."

or even

"Therefore what concerns us here's the problem of clearly defining these discriminations, which are, so to speak, the backbone of morality."

At any rate, it made for a good exercise in 4.

Loved how your free flowing pen opened the flow of retained knowledge. Beautiful image. Reminds me of 26, 48 and 40.

Superstition. WordWeb defines it as: "An irrational belief arising from ignorance or fear." Though that sounds like a tough take on it, it's quite true. It is ignorance (4) which creates and possesses the question. Fear - of doing wrong, or the right thing at the wrong time, and achieving undesirable consequences, may even result in going to some sort of hell.

But 'the truth shall set me free.' The irrational made rational is redemption, unless it is merely rationalized - which means devoid of superstition. Assigning a rational meaning to a seemingly inconsequential incident is the stuff of shamanism, voodoo, all religions, and the splitting apart of a chicken bones.

And all this from 23. ;)
 

hilary

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We'd better consult Tom's references. Chicken carcass stock may just have got way more interesting.

Wish I could describe that German prose experience - it was weird. I had a head full of lovely, elegant, idiomatic German sentence structures for the translation, and next to no vocabulary to put in them. And my old pen (from 'A' levels and every book-sized essay in the intervening four years) was stuttering to a halt; the carpet next to me was covered in ink splats as I shook it. Maybe it was covered in German vocabulary, too, I don't know. It must've gone somewhere. Anyhow, it turned out I got a leading gamma on that paper (as in alpha, beta, ohcrap). Subsequently I went for a nice long walk to a specialist pen shop, spent oodles of money on a beautiful new pen, and convinced myself I was starting afresh.

If anyone else wants a 1st, http://www.pensplus.co.uk/ is still in business ;) .
 
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sooo

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A Mont Blonc increased the amount of business I wrote, just as Allen Edmonds (Grayson) shoes improved the quality of my client list.

But that is only vaguely superstition, and much more so psychology. Magic is linked with confidence, otherwise called faith or belief. Confidence is well worth the stout price of a quality pen or pair of shoes. There's other psychological factors as well, such as handing someone a pen with some heft to it, instilling confidence in that person. Or perhaps weightier thoughts can be released. The wand's magic is an extension of perceptions and beliefs, but most of all, an increase in confidence. And that releases the gates between what you know and what you're presently conscious of knowing.

Mental blocks, writer's block, artist's block, difficulty remember names, all very frustrating. I actually had to create a Word doc with my granddaughter's name on it, so I could recall when I'd forget. Frustrating. And demanding that information only seems to cover it up all the more, digs the knot in deeper.

That's when magic is helpful. There's usually more than one solution to anything. Letting go of it is the very thing which allows you to catch it.
 

heylise

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Lol, our walls are covered with the names of dogs, written in crayon. Each of us used to have her own pack, from 2 up to 6 dogs. Your own pack was no problem, but when you buy an entire litter of 7 and divide them up, knowing all others every moment is not easy. If you cannot remember, the owner is deeply disappointed - her sweet puppy and you don't know its name...
Every time we see a name now, of dogs long since deceased, we get a smile. Walls with nice memories.
 

heylise

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I learn to drive a car. I still have a drivers license but didn't drive for innumerable years. Yesterday I found a tiny red car on a table top in the park. Forgotten by a child. Of course it will accompany me from now on.
Red... what I missed most was the courage to drive. The rest was not that much a problem. Inspiring little mascot.
 

pocossin

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WHEN William Little’s sister refused to go sailing because an astrological chart predicted she would drown he decided it was time to investigate the psychic world.
Now he’s convinced people really CAN see into the future . . .
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ed-people-really-can-see-into-the-future.html

Does Little actually say that? Very generous of him, but he's the one who bought the astrological charts for his sister and niece :) , so he enjoys the topic. Sister's fear of death by water isn't entirely misplaced but more likely to be a slip in tub or shower. Her fear of boats (I worry about boats too) is probably more than offset by her greater confidence in the air and on land, where she is most of the time.
 

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We seem to like to project our qualities and knowing into objects, and then "find" them as if they were new, or a gift from outside ourselves. My personal favourite is a pair of trousers that I wore backpacking through Viet Nam ... ever since then, I wear them for courage and luck whenever a serious (and edgy) adventure presents itself.
 

hilary

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I like Cesca's idea of making objects into a way of 'finding' our gifts.

Does Little actually say that? Very generous of him, but he's the one who bought the astrological charts for his sister and niece :) , so he enjoys the topic. Sister's fear of death by water isn't entirely misplaced but more likely to be a slip in tub or shower. Her fear of boats (I worry about boats too) is probably more than offset by her greater confidence in the air and on land, where she is most of the time.
Somewhat surprising the Sun presents him as a believer; that's really not the drift of the book. The underlying 'plot' is that he sees the damage his casual gift has done to his sister, who is cancelling activities and holidays out of fear, and is driven to investigate by guilt, more or less. He starts out willing to believe but gets increasingly sceptical.
 

rodaki

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While observing the fishermen at work, he noticed that when sailing in lagoons or close to the short, the men relied entirely on their skill and experience to control their boats and locate fish. On venturing into the open sea, however, these same fishermen began using magical rituals, faced as they now were with unpredictable hazards – exactly the type of superstitious behaviour in the face of anxiety and uncertainty that is very much alive today.’



I found that part a pretty good description of 58.5 . . when we find ourselves in a place where outside forces can subsume us and our sense of self-reliance and mastery meets its weak spots, we tend to maximize thru 'magical' means the potency of whatever we have at hand and believe/hope/aspire to behold the bigger picture by holding onto a small part of reality ('Understands the transitory/In the light of the eternity of the end').

And I think this the kind of 'magic' that works! It will help us from giving up in the face of adversity taking the form of 'superstition' or, in other cases, of religious belief. Cesca I think put it beautifully and LiSe touched upon a different aspect of it, that it is also how, when still in childhood, we first learn to master our universe: by attributing 'magical' powers to simulacra of the world and then practice in directing them. I think that children's toys, religious artifacts and talismanic objects like a pen or a pair of trousers, all function in a similar way, by calling onto that part of us that can master whatever threatens to disintegrate our sense of safety and wholeness . .
 

hilary

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58.5? Interesting!

Personally, if I were going out in a fishing boat from Melanesia, I'd prefer the boat to be captained by one of those fishermen who knows his rituals, rather than the scientist who identified them as superstition - wouldn't you?
 

heylise

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This weekend there was a beautiful documentary on TV about the Kalash, a people in the northwest of Pakistan. The last "infidels", the muslims try to make them muslim, with every means they can think of. Up to killing, so probably soon this people will not exist anymore. Right now there are only 3000 left.

When I saw how they lived, it made me think of the Yi. In the days of its 'making' many things of the people would be a lot like the Kalash. They held a beautiful winter sacrifice - "when we cannot perform the winter sacrifice any more, how can we be strong next year?" The shaman could guide them because he was pure: only eats the plants he has seen growing, drinks only the water from the river he knows. He could see the elfs who made things happen the way they did.

Many hexagrams have as one of their meanings that they are the names of sacrifices. Even "Yi" itself is a sacrifice: to the sun, to make the weather change for the better.
Maybe that is our main fascination with it. To get reconnected with the world of magic, and find that inner space where magic reigns and where creativity, trust (in others and yourself), love and all those things which make life worthwhile have their base.
 

rodaki

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58.5? Interesting!

Personally, if I were going out in a fishing boat from Melanesia, I'd prefer the boat to be captained by one of those fishermen who knows his rituals, rather than the scientist who identified them as superstition - wouldn't you?


of course I'd prefer the knowledgeable captain, I never said that this so-called scientific approach of 'superstition' was preferable, neither do I really see science as incompatible with 'superstition'. To the contrary, many great scientists were/are highly superstitious. I think that those who spend their lives delving on either side of the science/'superstition' polarity know much better than to dismiss their other side . . the 'disintegrating influence' of 58.5 refers, I think, to the moment when the lake (safe environment) breaks down into something more disrupting (into thunder trigram, the unpredictable phenomena of the open seas)
whatever threatens to disintegrate our sense of safety and wholeness . .
 

mythili

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I'm a scientist and (of course) I dont tell any of my colleagues that I use the IChing. I personally dont quite believe in "superstition" as defined by wearing a particular red sweater each time for an exam, just because the first time one wore it, the exam went really well - except that holding on to the superstition of luck with the red sweater will work the wonderful placebo effect, which it is now being shown is real - i.e. acts like a medicine in causing changes in the brain. So yes, superstition does work, because it becomes self-motivating.
And, being a scientist, I have always felt that the one thing that scientists need to do is to keep an OPEN mind, one that suspends belief or disbelief, and bases neither on "rational" thought. Rational thought is only one kind of thought. There are other kinds of thought. Sticking to rational thought alone, in some ways, seems almost a deliberate attempt to de-synchronize the entire thought process that goes on the brain - sort of making an unnatural split between the right and left brain. The value of empirical thinking, is to me, really very high. If something works, and has been shown time and again to work, then to disbelieve it because it does not fit presently existing criteria, is irrational! One day far far into the future, the mystery of why the IChing works might be unravelled. We are at the very beginning of understanding the brain, if that is what needs to be understood, who knows, but just because we dont understand its workings now, doesnt mean IT is irrational. Like the placebo effect - considered irrational all this time, now being shown to have a clear neurological basis.
Oh well, I'll get back to work now!

Shobhana
 

hilary

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of course I'd prefer the knowledgeable captain, I never said that this so-called scientific approach of 'superstition' was preferable, neither do I really see science as incompatible with 'superstition'. To the contrary, many great scientists were/are highly superstitious. I think that those who spend their lives delving on either side of the science/'superstition' polarity know much better than to dismiss their other side . . the 'disintegrating influence' of 58.5 refers, I think, to the moment when the lake (safe environment) breaks down into something more disrupting (into thunder trigram, the unpredictable phenomena of the open seas)
I'm with you. I didn't actually mean any connection between my two paragraphs - I'm just intrigued by your take on 58.5. I've not had much experience with the 'disintegrating' being anything potentially positive/ growth-enhancing, though it's fun to speculate about the priestess 'opening' and adopting the role of 'little sister' and so on.

I'm a scientist and (of course) I dont tell any of my colleagues that I use the IChing. I personally dont quite believe in "superstition" as defined by wearing a particular red sweater each time for an exam, just because the first time one wore it, the exam went really well - except that holding on to the superstition of luck with the red sweater will work the wonderful placebo effect, which it is now being shown is real - i.e. acts like a medicine in causing changes in the brain. So yes, superstition does work, because it becomes self-motivating.
And, being a scientist, I have always felt that the one thing that scientists need to do is to keep an OPEN mind, one that suspends belief or disbelief, and bases neither on "rational" thought. Rational thought is only one kind of thought. There are other kinds of thought. Sticking to rational thought alone, in some ways, seems almost a deliberate attempt to de-synchronize the entire thought process that goes on the brain - sort of making an unnatural split between the right and left brain. The value of empirical thinking, is to me, really very high. If something works, and has been shown time and again to work, then to disbelieve it because it does not fit presently existing criteria, is irrational! One day far far into the future, the mystery of why the IChing works might be unravelled. We are at the very beginning of understanding the brain, if that is what needs to be understood, who knows, but just because we dont understand its workings now, doesnt mean IT is irrational. Like the placebo effect - considered irrational all this time, now being shown to have a clear neurological basis.
Oh well, I'll get back to work now!

Shobhana
To what extent is the power in the red sweater real? Or to what extent is the power really in the red sweater? And so on... ;)

Aren't there certain things - like weather - that are known to be fundamentally unpredictable no matter how many calculations are done or how big the computer doing them? What's the name for that again? I wouldn't be surprised if ocean currents and the movements of fish came into that category... in which case we need that different, non-rational way to relate to them, because it's actually all there is.

Does that make any sort of sense at all?

By the way... Kerson Huang has done a nice job of 'coming out' as a Yi-using scientist.
 

mythili

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Well, weather only becomes unpredictable if the butterfly flapping its wings in the UK is not taken into consideration when predicting the weather across the Atlantic in the US - the chaos effect - small changes in weather activity propagate long distances - so rational thinking holds for weather - the weathermen dont necessarily take the chaos effect into consideration.......ouch, dont mean to step on anyone's toes.
 

rodaki

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I've not had much experience with the 'disintegrating' being anything potentially positive/ growth-enhancing, though it's fun to speculate about the priestess 'opening' and adopting the role of 'little sister' and so on.


uhmm, me neither but I've gotten this line mostly as a warning . . like mothers shouting to kids not to swim too far away from shore (common thing in greek seashores ;)) . . kinda like 'uhhh don't go there!!' :rolleyes:
But since lakes are delimited spaces and 'rest on firmness and strength within', it's gotten me thinking that it's the breaking away from the safe place that calls for lake's extra attentiveness. As with the fishermen in that quote, they perceive that what stands for controllable environments (lagoons, fishing near the shore) holds no more further out, where the known crumbles away along with what works within it (causal thought being one such thing) . . anyway, that was my association -makes any better sense?

Interestingly enough, if I think back to my experience at sea I find that conditions become uncontrollable in a threshold zone between land and the open sea. Things are pretty safe and predictable near the shore (one is in 'the shade' so to speak of the shore which buffers everything) and more-or-less 'safe' once you get really far away from it in the sense that things work in a large scale and you can usually see changes coming but they can get seriously unpredictable in between where wind and undercurrents become unstable. There are places (especially among lands) where the wind blowing through can suddenly change direction and intensity due to the land temperature and the 'gorges' it creates and undercurrents meet and get erratic or get influenced by reefs -local fishermen call these places haunted, they say they carry spirits and traveling there is a liability cause you never know when or from where the 'ghost' will hit you . . I wonder if similar phenomena were also associated with the experience of the Melanesian fishermen . .
 
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I dunno about some of these examples. For example, as a Quartermaster (navigation, not supplies, in the navy), reaching open and deep water was generally a relief. It's navigating the the channels, reefs and rip tides of the shallows which would muster feelings of desiring divine guidance. Yet, though I believe in prayer, in God, gods and unseen principalities, it's my eyes, compass and chart that offers the greatest assurance of a safe passage. Shallow water, on the other hand, is home to the sirens, to sudden and unceremonious destruction. Or, at least the embarrassment of running safely aground during a landing exercise, and having to wait for the tide to float the ship free, all for being two degrees off course of the channel. :bag:
 
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rodaki

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I was thinking about this yesterday when I was writing my previous post, that, most likely, both rational tools and 'irrational' belief have their moments . . it'd be silly to stick to ritual when one has access to reliable tools, but then again, when these fail us ritual can be our helping hand. I remembered reading in some seafaring story (part memoir part fiction) how in the old days, before GPSs and advanced weather reports, during particularly dangerous storms, the seamen would say a prayer and pour in the sea a small bowl of olive oil, blessed by the patron saint of seafarers. This has its symbolic value, because the oil evoked the oil like surface of a calm sea . . I doubt it ever miraculously changed the weather, but it probably did help the seamen remain hopeful and strong, which could be all the miracles they really needed. A small thing imbued with faith can go a long way in times of darkness -children who refuse to go to sleep without their favorite toy know that all too well :)
 

pocossin

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. . . during particularly dangerous storms, the seamen would say a prayer and pour in the sea a small bowl of olive oil, blessed by the patron saint of seafarers. This has its symbolic value. . .

The use of oil to still waves is effective, not just symbolic:
DURING the past six years the attention of mariners has been called to the value of oil for stilling waves by the publicity given to the experiments made by Mr. John Shields in Great Britain and by the published reports in the monthly " Pilot Charts " issued by Commander J. R. Bartlett, United States Navy, Chief of the United States Hydrographic Office, Navy Department.

Lack of faith in its efficiency has been the chief obstacle to its universal adoption. Many accounts of the use of oil, together with descriptions of appliances for facilitating its distribution on the stormy seas, have been published in different countries, and every effort to disseminate information will deserve the lasting gratitude of all mariners. Ocular demonstration seems to be necessary to convince unbelievers that the simple use of oil to lessen the dangerous effect of heavy seas is always advantageous, and often absolutely necessary for those in peril on the sea. . . .

The century illustrated monthly magazine, Volume 37
Google Book, p705

The idea, I think, is to create an oil film on the water in front of the boat. But a bowlful over the side is symbolic.
 

rodaki

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that's great info! It makes sense also when I think of images of oil leaks at sea -there one can see very clearly how an oil film weighs down any wave movement. What I mentioned definitely fell on the symbolic side though, it would be impractical back then to carry along so much oil as to affect the sea just in case of a storm . . I guess if the boat's cargo was oil to begin with, they'd have a pretty good chance of slipping away!
 

pocossin

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that's great info! It makes sense also when I think of images of oil leaks at sea -there one can see very clearly how an oil film weighs down any wave movement. What I mentioned definitely fell on the symbolic side though, it would be impractical back then to carry along so much oil as to affect the sea just in case of a storm . . I guess if the boat's cargo was oil to begin with, they'd have a pretty good chance of slipping away!

It actually doesn't take much oil -- only a drip in front of the boat. Maybe a gallon an hour during the storm, just enough to create an oil film around the boat. I think it works by surface tension. "Pouring oil on troubled waters" is proverbial for attempting to make peace. This idea connect neatly to Rosada's question in the Ta Chuan thread, "Can anyone offer a comment on what Wilhelm means when he says kindness is light and justice is dark?" because mercy : justice :: oil : water (mercy is to justice as oil is to water). Mercy as symbolized by oil is biblical, and the annointed (oiled) one has the mercy of the Most High.
 
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rodaki

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. . the way metaphors work heh :stir: :)
I didn't know about the biblical association but now that you mentioned it Pocossin, it made me think of one of the rituals we have in Greece for casting off the evil eye, which includes letting three drops of oil fall in a cup of water . . if the drops spread means you had the 'eye' on you and it's being cast off, if not you just have a headache :)D)

ehm, how much is a drip exactly? (a non-native English-speaking unbeliever :bag:)

It would be nice to link the oil/water ritual to Rosada's question (think I'll go do it right now)
 
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pocossin

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ehm, how much is a drip exactly?

By "drip" I mean a continual dropping but not so much as a continuous stream. The amount of oil needed is small. The above Century Magazine says:
The quantity of oil necessary is about two quarts per hour, according to the reports received. Vice-Admiral Cloue of the French navy states that the amount of oil used is mentioned in 30 reports out of 200 which he has examined: 17 vessels expended 1.61 quarts per hour when running before the storm,11 used 2.37 quarts when lying to, and 2 life-boats used 2.42 quarts per hour. This is an average of two quarts of oil per hour.

The thickness of this film of oil may be readily calculated. A vessel running before the wind at 10 knots' speed has used two quarts of oil per hour, and the oil covered a surface 30 feet wide and 10 sea miles long. The volume of two quarts of oil is about 122 cubic inches, which, divided by the number of square inches to be oiled,— 10 miles long and 30 feet wide, or 25,920,000 square inches,— gives .0000047 of an inch as the thickness of the film of oil. This figure is inconceivable, but represents the actual dimension of the blanket of oil on the sea.

When I feel I have the eye on me, I'll try the three drops remedy :)
 

rodaki

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By "drip" I mean a continual dropping but not so much as a continuous stream. The amount of oil needed is small. The above Century Magazine says:


When I feel I have the eye on me, I'll try the three drops remedy :)


ah yes, thanks for explaining, I reread your post today and it became much clearer -especially the gallon part :blush: (I was a bit tired yesterday and all over the place, didn't notice it)

As for the 'eye' thing . . hmm, it's a little more complicated than that but you could give it a try, maybe say a prayer while you're doing it, it might still work ;)
 

pocossin

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Wisdom of Superstitution

. . . one of the rituals we have in Greece for casting off the evil eye, which includes letting three drops of oil fall in a cup of water . . if the drops spread means you had the 'eye' on you and it's being cast off . . .

The cup of water is a symbol of the person with disturbed emotions, and adding the oil represents inner pacification.

As for the 'eye' thing . . hmm, it's a little more complicated than that but you could give it a try, maybe say a prayer while you're doing it, it might still work

Ah, yes, the accompanying prayer:

In Greece, the evil eye is cast away through the process of xematiasma (ξεμάτιασμα), whereby the "healer" silently recites a secret prayer passed over from an older relative of the opposite sex, usually a grandparent. Such prayers are revealed only under specific circumstances, for according to superstition those who reveal them indiscriminately lose their ability to cast off the evil eye.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_eye

A reaffirmation of connection to the ancestors, but not having inherited such a prayer, I'll go with the 23 Psalm. After adding the oil, do you then drink the water?
 

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