Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
‘Abundance has many causes; few connections for the Traveller.’
‘Advancing means daylight, Brightness Hidden means punishment.’
I wonder whether there might be a similar story-pairing in 39/40, though. Hexagram 39, Limping, evokes Yu the Great, the limping hero who conquered the Flood. And Hexagram 40 seems to be telling the story of some other hero, one we can no longer recognise, whose success comes not through decades of toiling in the mud, but the swift flight of arrows.
In the Bhagavad Gita, Arjuna is counselled by Lord Vishnu (in the guise of his charioteer) with new perspectives that is hoped will bring change to the stance Arjuna is taking over his moral dilemmas towards entering into battle. The outcome hoped for through the all encompassing dialogue they have together, may be not so much to get Arjuna to fight but to get him off from sitting on the fence.Interesting.
LiSe looks at line 6 and sees Arjuna. I look at line 3 and hear Dionysus and Xanthias arguing about whether Xanthias or the donkey is carrying the baggage. Stephen Field spins all the lines together into a story of a hunting party ambushed by bandits. Maybe we all have the same feeling that we ought to know the story?
39.4 - ‘Going on, limping - coming back, connection.’
40.3 - ‘Shouldering a burden while also riding in a carriage. Invites the arrival of robbers.
Constancy, shame.’
Exactly that. I'm sure it had them rolling in the aisles in 405BC.I'm not familiar with the Dionysus and Xanthias story however, if I've interpreted your snippet correctly, to mean the arguement being based in something like "Are you are still carrying the baggage even if you are sat on a donkey while doing it?"
Hexagrams 35 and 36: Advancing, and Hiding Brightness.
... Hexagram 35 says that kang hou receives a gift of horses.
'Advancing means daylight, Brightness Hidden means punishment’ says the Zagua, ....
I think this is where it comes from, per Wikipedia and hereI look at line 3 and hear Dionysus and Xanthias arguing about whether Xanthias or the donkey is carrying the baggage.
ARISTOPHANES
"FROGS"
[The play opens on a street leading to Hades, with a door in the centre of the backstage area. Enter Dionysus, appearing as a middle-aged man with a noticeable paunch, wearing a yellow tunic and over that a lion skin. He’s carrying a huge club, one commonly associated with Hercules. On his feet he wears soft leather lace-up boots. Behind him comes his slave Xanthias riding on a donkey and carrying a huge amount of luggage. Xanthias notices the audience]
[...]
XANTHIAS [striking a heroic tragic pose]
Alas, for my neck beneath this triply damned yoke.
I suffer all this pressure and can’t tell my joke.
DIONYSUS
It’s an outrage, sheer insolence, that I,
Dionysus, son of Winejar, have to walk like this,
sweating along so he can ride at ease
without a care and carrying no load.
XANTHIAS
What!?
Aren’t I carrying the load?
DIONYSUS
How can you be?
You’re riding on your ass.
XANTHIAS
I’m loaded down.
All this stuff . . .
DIONYSUS
What do you mean by that?
XANTHIAS
What I just said carries lots of weight.
DIONYSUS
Isn’t the donkey carrying our load?
XANTHIAS
No, no way. Not the load I’m holding.
DIONYSUS
How come?
How can you be carrying anything at all
when someone else is carrying you?
XANTHIAS
I’ve no idea.
But my shoulder’s falling off.
DIONYSUS
All right, then.
Since you claim the donkey’s useless to you,
why not take your turn and carry it?
XANTHIAS
What a wretched life!
I should have gone away to fight at sea—
then I’d be free and I’d have told you straight
what you could do with that ass of yours.
DIONYSUS
Get down, you useless idiot! We’re there—
by the door I’m aiming for, my first stop.
Hexagrams 55 and 56, Abundance and the Traveller .... turn 55 upside-down, look at it from the opposite perspective, and you’re looking at 56 ....
The Zagua, describing the contrast in this pair, says,
'Abundance (55) has many causes; few connections for the Traveller (56).’
– shorthand for the complete contrast between the two stories.
A 'soujourner' is a person who resides temporarily in a place.
A 'traveller' is a person who is travelling or who often travels.
As for why 55/56 could be seen as opposites: that Hex 55 relates to being at the end of a journey, supposedly having all that you need. Hex 56 relates to having nothing that you need where you live.
So his only answer, is to set off for another temporary residence where he might ... find nourishment (Hex 57) that he is missing and needing ...
I'm just sharing another facet of what works for me regarding the Zagua and this pair of hexagrams.
I see these more as offering different - and complementary perspectives ('stories', meanings, advice); but not necessarily opposing or opposite ones.
55 and 56 are a pair of hexagrams – turn 55 upside-down, look at it from the opposite perspective, and you’re looking at 56.
When Wu looks around him at Feng, everything he sees is his: his subjects, his garrison, his responsibility, his command, his allies, his resources, even the signs of his mandate in the skies above. And it keeps growing – more allies, more heavenly signs, more weight of responsibility – so that he has to act.
When Hai looks around at Yi, not much he sees is his. These are not his people, the queen is not his wife, this is not his culture or his rules, and pretty soon those will not be his flocks, either.
You could say Hexagram 35 is about the importance of making the most of opportunities, and 36 is about hiding your light under a bushel (amongst other things), but the pair in combination, showing the very different experiences of two equally good and loyal people, seems to have more to say.
I wonder whether there might be a similar story-pairing in 39/40, though. Hexagram 39, Limping, evokes Yu the Great, the limping hero who conquered the Flood. And Hexagram 40 seems to be telling the story of some other hero, one we can no longer recognise, whose success comes not through decades of toiling in the mud, but the swift flight of arrows.
That's perfectly fine for me and I see nothing amiss in what either of us have done. You see some of the Zagua interpretations as not conclusive I see them as adding another layer of understanding to the interpretation of I Ching. I do agree though that capturing the essence of the hexagram goes a long way in understanding.And I am sharing why it doesn't work for me.
In this particular sentence she is referring to the structural forms of the pair.
Personally I think to spend time arguing about it ... is like saying the I Ching is wrong, the structure is wrong, that 55 isn't 56 upside down and viceversa and that one feels one has a better idea.
Now in those few words of the Zagua lie so much that we can expand on endlessly in our readings ....
I see nothing amiss in what either of us have done.
And perhaps you misunderstand me. I have no heartburn with the structural form of the Zhouyi or the hexagrams, but I think that Hilary, myself, and others are talking about purpose and meaning, not how the hexagrams are constructed.
55 and 56 are a pair of hexagrams – turn 55 upside-down, look at it from the opposite perspective, and you’re looking at 56.
It is simply how I understand and see the hexagrams and the Yi, and it is therefore valid.
There's no 'yet'. The point is you are arguing about something in the blog that hasn't been said whilst missing the main point altogether.And yet here you are, spending time arguing with me!
I made the points I did because I thought you were missing the point of the blog entirely and that was partly because you hadn't realised that first sentence your quoted was dealing with the structure of 55/56 rather than Hilary just making a senseless statement 'they are opposite' as you seemed to think she had.I assume the purpose here is to share ideas, perspectives, reflections, stories; even if they are in contrast to what others say - and that's what I've done. If it helps ease your criticism of me - or your attempts to make me wrong - then I'll confirm, what I've said in this thread is what I think, feel, perceive .... It's not an attempt to make the Yi 'wrong'. As someone already said of the hexagram pairs - they offer us a different way of seeing the situation.
So I think that 55 and 56 have much more in common than they are opposites, and it makes me wonder if these shared elements are what, in large part, makes them a pair
In the particular sentence you quoted, that kicked off your initial post here, as I explained,
– shorthand for the complete contrast between the two stories.‘Abundance has many causes; few connections for the Traveller.’
... just shows you can't have bothered to read what I said.
‘Abundance has many causes; few connections for the Traveller.’
– shorthand for the complete contrast between the two stories.
You didn't misquote her you just misunderstood her IMO. It's not a crime, I was just pointing it out seeing as you've written several posts now telling us how 55 is not the opposite of 56.Well then, perhaps I miss-quoted Hilary, and I apologize
If you are going to argue with me, and claim that I'm wrong, and find fault with what I said (which is exactly what you are doing) ... than I'd prefer it if you actually refer to, or quote the words I wrote - and not just rehash what you think Hilary said.
I don't know who they are.And what? You don't like Gracie Allen or George Burns? (Or the cleaver way I made them out to be like the contrasting hexagrams in the Zagua?)
No, not the case here at all. I wouldn't say this was a slight and I have never said it was. I have called it a misunderstanding. I don't believe in 'Master Diviners' at all and I can't see how the points I made have anything much to do with defending the 'Yi realm'.And ... it seems to me that you are making yourself out to be the Defender of the Yi Realm, and are taking offense at any slights you feel have been directed at the Master Diviner - and that is exactly like:
These references are lost on me. I have no idea who Ripley is, or who Newt is or the Alien Queen. I haven't used any words like 'get away you bastard'.. You quote all these names assuming it's general knowledge who they are.Ripley (when the Alien Queen threatens Newt - i.e. Hilary and/or the Yijing): Get away from her, you bitch (or bastard)!
But ... if instead you want to talk about, or question, or take issue with some of the things I actually said (as someone else here has done), then I may (maybe, possibly) decide to respond to you
It's fine not to respond to me, in fact we should end this conversation as we are hijacking the thread.
55 is about the Zhou gathering at their garrison city Feng in order to attack the Shang, right? Probably many of them had to make a journey to get there, but 55's about what happens once they get there, isn't it? It seems more like the beginning of something (Zhou dynasty), not the end.One perspective might be that Hex 55 relates to being at the end of a journey
(from the Wikipedia article)Shang officials were released without charge with some later working as Zhou officials. The imperial grain store was opened immediately after the battle to feed the starving population. The battle marked the end of the Shang dynasty and the beginning of the Zhou dynasty.
Maybe more of an anti-hero? Though Wu was a villain for some people because of his disrespect for his deceased father.Apropos of not much, is Hai a hero? He behaves pretty badly in 56.
Complementary hexagrams, complementary line by line? Interesting thought. Well, keep going, only another 191 to go...Interesting side trivia, 55 and 59 are complements.
55.........59
55.5: "A thing of beauty is coming. There is reward and praise, good fortune."
Maybe 59.5 is the reason that's possible, because they did a decent job of conquering.
I've looked at the hexagram judgement across many translations over the years and they all seem to talk of the arriving at a destination or some sort of culmination. This is a place where things ust naturally come together. Books I have to hand say 'the king is present' (Rutt) or 'the king attains abundance' (Wilhelm) or 'the king reaches his point' (Huang) while Karcher in his own inimitable fashion states ' he receives the mandate'.55 is about the Zhou gathering at their garrison city Feng in order to attack the Shang, right? Probably many of them had to make a journey to get there, but 55's about what happens once they get there, isn't it? It seems more like the beginning of something (Zhou dynasty), not the end.
I've looked at the hexagram judgement across many translations over the years and they all seem to talk of the arriving at a destination ...
the image ... of B&B at Bognor Regis
B &B = Bed and Breakfast and is a shortened term used in UK(and I thought world wide) for a small lodging establishment that offers overnight accommodation and breakfast.I don't know where or what (or whom?) this is? Best, D.
It's funny, I think I can recognize this as a reaction, without necessarily thinking it's what 55's about. The thing people sometimes do of thinking that arriving somewhere is the culmination when it's really not. What would be examples, I don't know, getting accepted to college? Making the team? Convincing your amour to marry you? Peak moments, but then you have to do the thing (get decent grades, stay in shape, take care of your marriage, whatever).I've looked at the hexagram judgement across many translations over the years and they all seem to talk of the arriving at a destination or some sort of culmination. This is a place where things ust naturally come together. Books I have to hand say 'the king is present' (Rutt) or 'the king attains abundance' (Wilhelm) or 'the king reaches his point' (Huang) while Karcher in his own inimitable fashion states ' he receives the mandate'.
The ancient stories are not what always attract me to find meaning in the hexagram. From my perspective hex 55 is not just about the arrival at the garrison. There has to be an arrival, for sure, but what is it that arrives? The hexagram outlines the process of working concertedly to recognise, manifest, share and maintain the good fortune for as long as you can. The noble one has to be discerning to identify the distractions that will take him off the path of abundance and nip them in the bud.
Maybe the story for 55 is arriving in the kitchen and making a pot of tea. Filling your cup to the brim you then have to walk to your favourite chair with the intent of keeping as much tea in your cup as you can. Just the motion of your walking can be enough to create numerous splashes on the floor. Luckily there is plenty in the cup when you sit down to dunk your favourite biscuit.
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).