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borrowing a question, and follow-up...

bonnieta

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After reading a recent post, I decided to borrow the question recently used by another member. I was interested what the I Ching would reply on my behalf.
I have been struggling for the past 18 months with the ending of a partnership and the unsatisfied wish for a reconciliation, wondering about a positive change in my life. I have submitted 3 prior posts about this relationship in March.

I asked today:
Will I get romantic, emotional & physical satisfaction in near future if yes how when???"
Reply: Hexagram 16, unchanging
Enthusiam

I understood this to be a strong yes, thought perhaps it meant in the very near future.

As, I will be seeing my former partner in the very near future, a casual outdoor outing...
I wondered if the reply might be in relation to seeing J.

I asked
Is this J?
Reply Hexagram 15 Modesty, unchanging.
Possibly meaning uniting, from what I have read about this hexagram

I asked in follow-up: How is J feeling about me, now?
Hexagram 13 (Fellowship), lines 4.5.6 changing to 36 Darkening of the Light
The lines, perhaps a sequence of our process of change, and J's choice to keep his feelings hidden for a period of retreat.

Any thoughts from members in the community? Thanks for your insights.
 

willowfox

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Will I get romantic, emotional & physical satisfaction in near future if yes how when? Hexagram 16

This indicates that you will have cause to celebrate and be happy in the near future, so I would presume that you get your wish, as for the when, it suggests possibly the beginning of June.

Is this J? Hexagram 15

Looks very likely that it is J.

How is J feeling about me, now? Hexagram 13 lines 4.5.6 changing to 36

This looks very nice, as it suggests that he is gradually getting closer to you once again, he still has some weird ideas floating around in his head but a new realization in beginning to dawn upon him that even in separation he has strong feelings for you and that his place is with you, he has caused a lot of sadness by his actions, but he knows that you are the only one. So, currently he is hiding his feelings of love for you.
 

Trojina

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After reading a recent post, I decided to borrow the question recently used by another member. I was interested what the I Ching would reply on my behalf.
I have been struggling for the past 18 months with the ending of a partnership and the unsatisfied wish for a reconciliation, wondering about a positive change in my life. I have submitted 3 prior posts about this relationship in March.

I asked today:
Will I get romantic, emotional & physical satisfaction in near future if yes how when???"
Reply: Hexagram 16, unchanging
Enthusiam

I understood this to be a strong yes, thought perhaps it meant in the very near future.

its not a strong yes its just showing alot of anticipation and enthusiasm for something to be so..16 unchanging doesn't promise anything, i think this is probably a refelction of your attitude. You are asking for a prediction, as if it had nothing to do with you. i don't think you have one, just a reflection. 16 unchanging can be about building castles in the sky..lots of imaginings, so probably a good idea not to take this as either a yes or a no to your question

As, I will be seeing my former partner in the very near future, a casual outdoor outing...
I wondered if the reply might be in relation to seeing J.

I asked
Is this J?
Reply Hexagram 15 Modesty, unchanging.
Possibly meaning uniting, from what I have read about this hexagram

well i don't know how the Yi could say 'yes this is J'...but i think 15 encourages you to take things very much as they are without too much projection of your wishes.
 

rosada

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I look at hexagram 16 as indicating a grand celebration, all the highs the lows, the joys the sorrows that together make up a full life. To apply this to your question I agree in part with trojan that 16 seems to be mirroring your question with you putting in so many possibilities with one toss. However, since you mention there is going to be something of a 16. celebration coming up for you - the group picnic - this hexagram could be indicating the event could be just the sort of life enhancing experience you are seeking. I would certainly read it as encouragement to get out and live life to the fullest!
You ask if 15 might indicate J. I think 15 is more about treating everyone as equals. Therefore, while you may indeed see your friend at the gathering and his presence could add to the overall experience, I don't think you should assume there is anything more being said here. Keep your expectations MODEST.
13 leading to 36, Friendship - Darkening of The Light. Although lines 13.4 and 13.5 sound promising, 13.6 says it pretty clearly that J is not looking for anything more than superficial pleasantries. Although it is nice to imagine that 36. indicates he is keeping some burning yearning deep under wraps, it is probably wiser to assume the I Ching is cautioning you to keep your own feelings quiet. I would interpret this line as saying, "36. He hasn't seen you for a while but still remembers you. 13.4 hH will not be dwelling on old hurts. 13.5 He may make a special effort to say hello, 13.6 just as he will want to say hello to all the old friends at the gathering."

This is quite a different take than what Willowfox sees in these lines so I hope you will give us some feedback as to how things actually manifest.

Incidentally, right now Venus is retrograde suggesting a feeling of pulling back from making deeper romantic commitments but it can also be a time of returning to past relationships to re-consider. Sort of a pull back and start over time. Venus will be turning direct in a week or so. Perhaps we will all be more sure of our feelings then and in June Venus goes into Taurus, a sure sign that what is real will manifest!

Best wishes,
Rosada
 
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bonnieta

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Thank you all, Willowfox, Trojan and Rosada for taking the time to respond to my post and for your thoughtfulness and considerations of the possibilities. I appreciate what you each had to say. Even with differing impressions, you each have a useful point of view, a part of the picture. I will definitely follow-up over the next couple of months.
Blessings.
Bon
 

bonnieta

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Another follow-up...

I wanted give an update to those who thoughtfully responded to my last post (willowfox, rosada,trojan, enmedio..) I have had two positive exchanges with J...long walks and heart-level talks about one week apart. I shared my perceptions of changes in myself, new levels of awareness and the shedding of layers of self-protection and ego needs based on my life history. In simplier terms.I told him the story of my self-repair and the undoing a tangle of needs, sorting out what I most need and want...a true partnership based on love, loyalty, trust, respect, companionship, and much less emphasis on seeking material security from my partner, which, in the past, seemed to go hand-in-hand with what I thought would constitute an appropriate partner for me. This is a compassionate self-view, an understanding of how I created an inner/outer tension of relationship needs and pressures; how I believe I had impacted our relationship. During this period of separation and loss, I could only work on myself. I feel J's decision to leave the partnership to be in "relationship with himself" was based, partly based on his self-doubt and his regret about his own mistakes, and his perception of the things he could not(or would not) fulfill or offer to me. In our talk, he shared with me his realizations of errors in his behavior when we lived together, along with my teenage daughter.

At the end of our second visit, J said he would like to continue doing things together. He said that he thought that we could be successful (This remark is a complete change from his past outlook with limited commitment and detachment). We agreed to proceed slowly as "grown-ups." We both recognized our heart connection. We expressed a mutual desire to try again...the form yet to be determined. He is unconventional, lives a simple life, and is not motivated to have a traditional career or make an average wage.

How we proceed and our ability to move forward together successfully is in process and likely will present challenges for us...

I fear repeating history...Yes, the anxiety is high. I have had a long, hard 18 months, with other losses, two failed attempts at reconciling, and a ongoing withdrawal and detachment from J. I welcome his overture, but I need to see what he will actually do.
I persevere and love deeply. This sometimes has meant hitting my head against a wall. Also, it is hard for me to wait. J.'s tendency is to be passive and to avoid responsibility, partially out of fear of failure. I often deal with my fear and impatience by leading and taking initiative. I am learning to wait and trust. Its hard, especially when we are not in daily contact.

I asked the I Ching several questions over the past few days:

#1. Will J. and I be able to heal and rebuild our relationship?
Reply: 19.4 >54
Nearing (Arrival of the New) to Marrying the Maiden
19.Line 4(Karcher) Culmination Nearing. Without Fault. This is the climax of your relationship. Don't hold back. Give yourself fully. This is not a mistake.
Hex 54 This is a hard one. I've been studying various interpretations and the online discussions about it...and at this time, think about it as a transition place, possibly a new beginning, maybe leading to a long term commitment.
_________________________________________________________________________
#2 What does J want from me?
Reply: 60.4.5 to 54
Ariculating/Restricting to Marrying the Maiden
(Using Karcher)
60 Limiting, standardizing, reasoning. In the context of self-reflection we utilize control.
60.4 Articulate your ideas and your life quietly and peacefully. You will meet with a warm response. This will make your relationship a success and inspire others to immitate you.
60.5 Sweet articulating opens the way. Going on like this brings honor. Express your life with sweetness, grace and delight. You friend will respond. The way opens to you and you find honor and esteem. This relationship is very significant.

54. A passionate irregular relationship, change over which you have no control,a connection based on passion and is outside the normal pattern.

________________________________________________________________________
#3. What is the best course of action for me to take?
45 (unchanging) Assembling
Various sources: gathering, holding together,uniting around something, working together.
My interpretation, work together with J and define the purpose of our relationship?
__________________________________________________________________________
#4. Advice for how to proceed with J. and (another man) P.
(P. is someone I met at a party in January. At that point I had lost hope of reconciliation with J. Very recently P. expressed to a friend of mine, his interest in getting to know me better...It nevers rains but it pours. I have had no direct contact from P yet, but my friend conveyed to him that I had been interested in January, and gave him my email. I don't intend to contact P. but he may be approaching me)

Reply:
Hex 49.3.4 >3
49 Molting(Revolution;skinning; radical change ) changing to 3. Difficult Beginning

Hex 49. Karcher.Stripping away the old so new life can begin
Line 3. Chastising closes the way. Adversity. When the renewing words draw near 3x, you will be connected to the spirits. Reform taken step by step, with sincerity and trust
Line 4. The cause for sorrow disappears. There is a connection to the spirits. Change Heaven's mandates. The Way is Open. Act and have no doubts. All your sorrows will vanish. the spirits are helping you. The situation is already changing.

I take this as positive for reconciling with J, with advice to move step by step, and wait for affirmations from him about his intentions with respect to us.
Hex 3
Sprouting.Difficulty at the Beginning. Beginning Growth.
_______________________________________________________________________
As I mentioned it is hard for me to wait, and not initiate. After such a heartfelt exchange between J & I...I have not received a phone call or email over the last several days nor do we a planned date (an expressed intention to get together this week). The lack of follow-up from him is scary for me. We've had such long spaces of no contact, and typically I am the one who reaches out. There we go...mistrust, fear.

I asked the I ching:
Help me understand why I receive no contact or follow-up from J. What does that mean for his investment in us?
Hex 5.3.6 to Hex 61 Using Karcher and others
Waiting (inaction; waiting to advance; patience, nourishment) to Inner Truth (inmost sincerity)
Hex 5 Line 3. Stuck in the mud, close to the stream. He thereby limits the approach of injury. Reform can not be carried out in one shot. Advance and retreat, both predicaments. Reform must be executed step by step You have become bogged down in negative feelings or greed. You have lost the sense of attending or waiting on something precious.

Line 6. Enter the cave. Visitors will come without urging. There are 3 people coming. Respect them. Completing this action will open the Way.

Is this saying just hang in there? Perhaps fear on both of our parts, or difficulty getting started.

61. Inner truth (sincerity and trust)
Perhaps encouraging me to trust the process?

Karcher's comments "This relationship goes deep into your heart, and it connects you with a spiritual reality. Make what you feel in your heart accord with what you do in the world. Don't lead a double existence. Put your life together. Now is the time to be sincere, truthful and reliable. Recognize the inner connection with your friend. Empty your heart of fear and greed so you can hear the inner voices.
_____________________________________________________________________
#5. Will J be contacting me soon for an activity together?

Hex 37. Line 1 and Line 6 > Hex 39
37 Family to 39 Obstruction.
Line 1 Family discipline. Establishing restrictive regulations.
Precautionary measure at the beginning to prevent cause for regret.
Not ready to act yet.
Line 6.Shows its subject possessed of great sincerity and arrayed in majesty in the end. There will be good fortune.
Auspiciousness comes from self-reflection and self-discipline
39 Obstruction/Hardship.
Difficulty in proceeding. Seeing peril, stopping, self-reflection, timing.

Hmmm...How to begin? How hard will this be? Is fear the obstacle?

There you have it...
Thank you for any input, advise or help in interpretation.

Earlier related posts include:
3/7/09 40.1.4.5.6 >61
3/22/09 a second try
3/29/09 salvaging to shedding? (18.2.3>23)
4/11/09 borrowing a question, and follow-up...
 

bonnieta

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Yes, it does "ring a warning bell." Though I don't know quite how to weigh it, as the changing lines of the first hexagram are what I understand should receive the most attention, with many different associations for the second hex, a connection, not necessarily future oriented.

Hex 54 is very thought provoking as the second hex, and certainly raises concern based on the Judgement. I found it very interesting to read the recent extended discussion under Exploring Divination on Hex 54. On the surface it seems like subjugation or bargaining, but there were also thoughts expressed about personal development,transformation, insight into the shadow self, moving from 53 Gradual Progress through 54 as a transition on to 55. It seemed to refer to a change one must go through, a developmental shift, giving birth to something new. Karcher : "The transformation that is implied in this relationship represents a deep, unackowleged need. So be adaptable and receptive and move with the flow of events. This relationship is an end and a new beginning. It is the way Heaven and Earth couple and give birth to the world around us."

Thank you for your input. Lots to reflect on.
 

Trojina

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Bonnieta as you asked me to comment in your PM I have to say I can't handle multiple readings, it makes me confused :eek:uch: but i had noticed how prominent 54 was, seems to keep popping up as the related hexagram, showing as far as I'm concerned that you are a disadvantage in this relationship. It does seem to me you are having to accomodate him all the time, anticipate what he might want, control your wishes etc...it all sounds very tiring and very one way. So I'm afraid I'm prejudiced by my own opinion which is you need meet a person in a relationship half way and no more. In a sense it doesn't matter what hes going to do next or not it should be about are you getting what you need from this also. Maybe you should just be really straight about your needs and issue some kind of ultimatum. I know thats very difficult if you love him, but the situation as it is doesn't seem fair and I'm thinking you are now at the point where talking to him very openly about what you want and need from him is going to be more use than multiple I Ching consultations
 

tigerintheboat

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Inequitable Relationship

Hexagram 54 is about an inequitable relationship. It does not have to by boy/girl; I often get it in business situations where it is a bad idea to try to force a deal with someone. I am the "marrying maiden"; I will be at a disadvantage and the deal will be bad for me or won't happen.

In a reading Hilary did for me once, she said about H54 in a relating hexagram,

"Hexagram 54 looks like a clear image of your situation now, with the sense
of powerlessness and being unable to 'bring order'. "

It could simply be that you want and need things from the relationship far more than the other person does, and that is the inequity. "Under the current circumstances, you must play a subordinate role. If you try to assert yourself, people will regard it as inappropriate."

You can't force the situation, so "the best strategy is to be flexible and adaptable." This is where you start from, and then you follow from that starting point into the main hexagram.

Tiger
 

willowfox

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#1. Will J. and I be able to heal and rebuild our relationship? Reply: 19.4 >54

I believe all the answers that I have given you to date have been positive and that includes this one, I suggest you read my answers again as some of them are starting to come true, if you want a result then you need to both put some effort into achieving the goal that you want, it is a long and difficult road but you can both make it.

All the questions in the world ain't going to change the original facts of this situation, that it looks very promising. Keep the faith doubting Thomas!
 

willowfox

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#3. What is the best course of action for me to take? 45

Be there, be with him.
 

willowfox

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Is J the right partner for me? Hex 34.2.5 to 49

Yes, you are very compatible and oneday you will realize it.
 

bonnieta

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Thanks to all for your input.
Tiger's input on 54 as a reflecting hexagram helpful, seeing it as a reflection of the present situation and the need to be flexible and adaptible at the present, as well as the inequitability with respect to individual needs in the relationship at the present time.

Willowfox your positive interpretations and points of advice are very helpful. I have been both doubtful and hopeful in this process, but you are right about the positive changes that are occurring. I am learning more about how to modulate my reactions, remain receptive and be present, using inner strength and not forcing my will (which comes from both need and fear). My way isn't necessarily the "right way." I am in a more open space, more willing to go with the flow, with less protective emotional defenses (anger, defense, criticism)...the kind that close the way. I believe we are moving forward, but carefully. This isn't a process of jumping in blindly or settling for something, but a work in progress, on both our parts. Thanks for your encouragement. You're right it is hard work,and if we do reform a partnership, I have no doubt it will be worth it, healing and transformative for both of us.
 

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