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Can I invent my own method of divination? Part 2

waveCT

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I'm revisiting a primitive YiJing animation, trying to get the code modernised before climate change or dementia sets in.

It currently uses the Wilhelm/Baynes method of generating a second hexagram:

"If there are one or more moving lines...the words appended... are also to be considered... Furthermore, the movement, ie, change in the lines, gives rise to a new hexagram, the meaning of which must also be taken into account" (ISBN 0-7100-1581-X, p725)—ie, any hexagram may transform into any other.

I thought it worthwhile to look at other approaches (forgive me if I'm treading worn ground here). There are many variations:

http://www.russellcottrell.com/VirtualYarrowStalks/rules.htm

Of these, I thought two deviated in major ways from the W/B method, one being extremely simple, another mightily complicated.

Greg Whincup has a preferred method, for which he doesn't give precedents, although he attests its efficacy—one reading bore fruit after "ten years", as foretold. His method :

"If there is one changing line, then that is the divination... If there are two or more changing lines, change them to form a second hexagram. These two hexagrams together are your answer." (ISBN 0-385-19667-9, p223ff)

Given the author's standing, one could assume that this is also a traditional method. However, to me it is a little arbitrary (why two lines and not three, or four, to generate a second hexagram?) as is the underlying conception of his translation, which makes the Changes more coherent than perhaps they need be.

Whincup also describes, without naming them, the Nanjing Rules. Sources and method are fully described in Rutt (ISBN 0-70007-0467-1, p170ff).

The initial attraction is that the rules elucidate the earliest known references to specific divinations (the Zuo and Guoyu texts, datable to circa 400BCE), and that the method allows (mostly) for only one changing line—and thus, in these interesting times, limits the number of possible transformations of one's initial hexagram.

The texts tell of twenty-two divinations: five concern a single hexagram with no changing lines; in another fourteen, the text of each divination is formulated thus:

the questioner "received the line of [first hexagram] that changes to make [second hexagram]".

I like it.

However, to accommodate the flies in the ointment—three divinations with multiple changing lines—some extremely fancy mathematical footwork was required. You can read up on it if you like; the rules are probably discussed somewhere here, too. But for me, counting yarrow stalks is complicated enough without adding another layer of the professional diviner's stock-in-trade.

So, consider: if we accept that changing lines are significant; and accept also that the lines from the first place to the top represent developments in a situation (even allowing for strange textual irruptions): then surely, the uppermost changing line is the most significant. You might consult as many of the changing lines as you wish, but the last one supercedes the others, and carries either exclusive or greater weight.

On this logic, the uppermost changing line would be the line of your hexagram that changes it to another.

'Bundanoon Rules', if ever they see the light of day. Would anyone like to comment?
 

elvis

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In the Emotional I Ching, each question covers four possible outcomes. All six questions elicit a representation of a situation and any changing lines reflect responses to that representation. Given knowledge of what the lines represent it is easy to determine what elicited the changes.

(use the 'lite' program at the bottom of the EIC page - http://www.emotionaliching.com )

If there are no changing lines then either the situation is new and no responses as yet made, OR the individual is accepting of the situation and so no changes present.

As such there is no 'independence' of the user from the I Ching - their current responses to an assessment will reveal themselves in the changing line patterns even if unconscious; the uncertainty in responses to the questions, and so manifesting change, reflect decision processing in the mind that started the moment the situation developed - and often out of consciousness (instinctive responses etc). The questioning reflects consciousness trying to make an assessment given 'discomfort' etc that can come with suppressed/repressed emotional assessments of the situation.

If one uses traditional chance/magic methods then it becomes a dog's breakfast as to what applies!
 

waveCT

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Looks more like a counselling session to me...at first glance.
 
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elvis

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(1) any consultation with the I Ching is a "counselling session" - you are seeking the councel of the I Ching ;-)

(2) In the EIC the degree of subjectivity/objectivity involved is determined by the form of the questions asked - as covered in the EIC (try getting through the sample of the book - http://www.emotionaliching.com/ShortEmotionalIChing.pdf) we can change the specifics of the questions as long as the hierarchy is retained and the formats are maintained (i.e. part/whole forms of dichotomies).

The traditional line change focus is based on a 10th century BC perspective that is demonstratably past its best-before/use-by date (hex 62) where either it all goes to the bin OR it goes through refurbishment - as it does in the EIC work.
 

waveCT

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"The traditional line change focus is based on a 10th century BC perspective"... sources? That's way back in Shang days!

If I want to use a truly radical re-working of the Yi, one that retains something of the urgency of its pronouncement and yet uses C21 technology, I go to some folks closer to your part of the world:

http://www.levitated.net/exhibit/iching/ichingdaily.html

cheers
 

elvis

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If I want to use a truly radical re-working of the Yi, one that retains something of the urgency of its pronouncement and yet uses C21 technology, I go to some folks closer to your part of the world:

http://www.levitated.net/exhibit/iching/ichingdaily.html

cheers

...but that is nowhere near what I am talking about - it still uses chance/magic and as such reflects the mindset of the 10th century BC focus on divination just done with some technology - as such it represents symmetry mindedness in the form of shape-shifting, change the external but keep the core constant. As such the focus is on transformation.

The 21st century AD form of the I Ching, and so a focus on adding the transcendence element, is the discovery, through work on how the brain derives meaning, that the I Ching is a mythic language and as such is tied to the communication of sensory experiences through emotions etc.

Thus the focus is not so much on using the technology but in using what the technology has discovered in regard to meaning derivation and the development of languages.

Furthermore, the revelation in the work is in the emergent nature of an organic perspective from the mindless mechanics of recursion where recursion is used to derive classes of meanings.

What is noteworthy is that this language does not emerge until we have at least 64 classes of meanings - IOW there are resolution power issues present that limit identifying this property being identified at lesser levels of development.

I see none of that in your 'wiz-bang' presentation - all I see is the perpetuation of the traditional perspective but in different clothing (even retaining such labels as 'grace' etc. and so a tie to Wilhelm that is too rigid in use in that the foundations, the infrastructure of 22 is described by analogy to the generic qualities of 15 and so a focus on 'covering up'. The DETAILS of such introduce us to attempts to beautify the outside and so draw attention away from looking into the inside - 22 shares space with 36 and ITs focus on being uncompromising and so total coverage rather than partial.

Given such hexagrams as 32 - the focus on your website application to 'Endurance' in fact misses the nature of commitment. If we go to the hexagram in the context of the I Ching as a LANGUAGE then we get 63 aspects that introduce us to the beginning, ending, purpose, infrastructure and so on and so on. Thus the skeletal form of 32, the form then fleshed out to become 32, is described by analogy to the generic qualities of 14 and that does not cover endurance, it DOES cover the drive seeding setting a direction and commiting to such.

For the table covering describing hexagram 32 using the I Ching language see:

http://www.emotionaliching.com/lofting/bx001110.html

Endurance is present but as a harmonic of commitment, a contributor, not AS commitment.

Furthermore, with each harmonic derived we can apply the SAME methodology to give us more details - just as we use 26 letters to create audition language so here we have 64 images that create a vision language.

What is important to note is that this is NOT a property of the I Ching, it is a property of recursion and so applicable to all sorts of stuff.
 

waveCT

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...but that is nowhere near what I am talking about - it still uses chance/magic

Surely this is a constitutive element of the Yi? One reason for its continued popularity is that it allows us this entry-point into the intuitive life, which many of us are hard-pressed to otherwise locate.

...all I see is the perpetuation of the traditional perspective but in different clothing

Agree! But clothing is important: the language at Ichingdaily is, despite its hanging on to traditional hexagram names, contemporary, and its modes are typically allusive, colloquial, imperative and expletive, all of which to my mind revivify the tradition (while I, too, might take issue with specific parts of the text, if I could ever pin them down for long enough). Waley and Shchutskii, the earliest western commentators to mull the origins of the lines, might roll in their graves—and then applaud this reworking. Modern reworkings of the Yi are so often calm and explanatory in tone.

I can understand why you might want us to cut to the chase and ditch tradition, but I think this approach leaves something essential out of the process: and that essential (apart from magical thinking :) ) is the sustained focus on a single question, rather than an initial analysis of its ramifications.

This EIC is a different category of beast entirely. I'm not sure I want my Yi nailed down and stretched out on the grid of all possible relationships.

Never mind... still hoping for comment on my draft addition to the dog's breakfast.
 

elvis

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This EIC is a different category of beast entirely. I'm not sure I want my Yi nailed down and stretched out on the grid of all possible relationships.

It is already like that - the ability to use the I Ching as a language is hard-coded into recursion and as such the extractions of the harmonics, the spectrum or parts list, of a class of meaning. As such it is 'objective' in that it is an artifact of symmetry where 'all is connected' as potentials. The SUBJECTIVE element is in the form of your consciousness and so your awareness of local context names/dates/places where such apply within the context of the class, as an instance of such.
 

Sparhawk

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Whincup also describes, without naming them, the Nanjing Rules. Sources and method are fully described in Rutt (ISBN 0-70007-0467-1, p170ff).

The initial attraction is that the rules elucidate the earliest known references to specific divinations (the Zuo and Guoyu texts, datable to circa 400BCE), and that the method allows (mostly) for only one changing line—and thus, in these interesting times, limits the number of possible transformations of one's initial hexagram.

The texts tell of twenty-two divinations: five concern a single hexagram with no changing lines; in another fourteen, the text of each divination is formulated thus:

the questioner "received the line of [first hexagram] that changes to make [second hexagram]".

I like it.

And here is a good summary, if I may say so myself... :D
 

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