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Can we "talk' about 27 in general and 27.1 in particular

maiajay

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Hi,
Can we "talk' about 27 in general and 27.1 in particular as I have received it a few times recently. When I get 27 I tend immediately to feel like the Yi is admonishing me or at least really encouraging me to look closely at what I am allowing in? I usually interpret it as a strong urge to seriously weigh what it is I am considering doing, participating in--with a bias toward--myabe you shouldn't do this. (isn't it annoying when you are asking for clarity and the Yi says,"Get clarity?!") But as I write I realize it is probably neutral and just asking me to consider what influences I let in...(Am I getting 27 and 17 confused? How are they different?)

And what of 27.1?
karcher seems to say, "Why are you so sad? let it go..." which makes me think that the action being considered is possibly coming from an erroneous or sad place and should be abandoned or that the worry of the decision should be released?
Wilhem talks about envying people who seem more OK than you feel?

Any wise voices out there that would care to comment?
Peace,
maiajay
 

magictortoise

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Maiajay,

I often feel admonished when I draw hexagram 27. Remember also that #27 has as much to do with what goes out as well as what we allow in. Thus the admonishment in the image to be careful of ones words and temper ones eating and drinking.

I took classes in the I Ching at University where it was taught in the department of Religious Studies. My professor use to tell his classes that the magic tortoise is ones nature, that if we depart from our natures is it any wonder we have drooping mouths? I think that if we accord with our natures and act with ease there will never be occasion for envy. How could there be room for it? We receive the world in joy and wonderment, without guile. I speak here of 'world' as what surrounds one and not 'countries', 'the globe', 'planet Earth' etc.

Of course if the sadness, grief is genuine, as at the loss of a friend, then there really is cause for drooping mouth, but I don't think that is what Wilhelm was referring to in line one.

Best regards,

Ken Wanamaker
 

cassius_clay

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Hexagram 27 might be about seeing what people (or you) are like by seeing what they nouish themselves with. Physically, mentally, etc.

27.1

This line represents a person who ignores his good qualities, or fails to do the work that will earn him what he wants, and instead gives into envy and jealousy of others who are or seem to be outwardly better off.
 
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bruce_g

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(isn't it annoying when you are asking for clarity and the Yi says,"Get clarity?!")
lol, yup. Like asking how to get strong and it says "get strong". But really, within that hexagram is included a model, which we can choose to follow. The "superior man", "noble one" or "young noble" all show an exemplary path, should we choose it.

I find that standing on my head when I get 27.1 works rather well. Then I am smiling.
 

maiajay

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thanks for the replies, you three--I was happy to get them--

"I think that if we accord with our natures and act with ease there will never be occasion for envy. How could there be room for it? We receive the world in joy and wonderment, without guile."

Ken,
What simple and beautiful truth. Simple but not easy...And re. the magic tortoise...i like it!

Bruce, when you say:
"But really, within that hexagram is included a model, which we can choose to follow. The "superior man", "noble one" or "young noble" all show an exemplary path, should we choose it."

Not to be dense, but the model you mention--what does the hexagram say is the exemplary path in this case? To be mindful of what goes in and out? Or something more obscure?

As for what I think it might be telling me...Maybe something about allowing who I am to be the guiding principle in what I choose to do. Perhaps in this case I am approaching the question from a disempowered place and the Yi is saying, do it if it feels in alignment with who you are. Hmmmm...

After this I asked what would be the result of this? And got number 18 unchanging. As I am in a place where it seems I am being asked to "clean out the closet," receving 18 seems to say, this will be supportive of your work right now.

any feedback?
Peace,
maiajay
 
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bruce_g

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Bruce, when you say:
"But really, within that hexagram is included a model, which we can choose to follow. The "superior man", "noble one" or "young noble" all show an exemplary path, should we choose it."

Not to be dense, but the model you mention--what does the hexagram say is the exemplary path in this case? To be mindful of what goes in and out? Or something more obscure?
Yes.

Discretion of consumption and words, managing appetites and impulses, a balanced economy. As to how far reaching or obscure, that depends on the nature of the inquiry, and also on the breadth of your desire to understand and change. It could be simple and practical or far reaching and obscure.
 

lienshan

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I took classes in the I Ching at University where it was taught in the department of Religious Studies. My professor use to tell his classes that the magic tortoise is ones nature, that if we depart from our natures is it any wonder we have drooping mouths?
I think that the text of 27.1 is a little more complicated than explained by the professor. Archaeological exavacations have shown, that the magic tortoise was an ancient pre Yi Jing divination method.

I'm not referring to the pyromancy divination method mentioned in 41.5 and 42.2 but to a millfoil divination method found e.g. on the Sipanmo bone dating late Shang. Three rows of 6 numbers looking like three hexagrams. The middle hexagram is :<<x:+ (866587/hex 36) without text and is inscibed upside down in relation to the others. The left hexagram is +:+<+< (787676/hex64) is followed by a "u" sign (means to say) and a sign "wei" that means "lofty" and "shame" plus a "ghost sign". The right hexagram +x+<<< (757666/hex 12) is too followed by a "u" sign (means to say) and a sign "kui" that means "the chief" and "fear" plus a "ghost sign".

A connection to magic tortoise shells is obvious when looking at a tortoise carapace:

http://www.hypervision.com.au/aquarium/topics/creatures/tortoises/diagrams.htm

In the middle are five "Vertebral" plus one "Nuchal" make a hexagram of six "lines".
Two times four "Costal" make eight trigrams.
Twenty-four "Marginal" make eight trigrams of three "lines".

The hexagram 27 The Corners of the Mouth looks to me like a magic tortoise with eight "Costal" (the four weak lines) but this association disappears when changing into 27.1

Jacques :D
 

seethis

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I feel that getting line 27.1 is telling me to face up to an uncomfortable truth. It is in my opinion about the infantile fixation on the unavailablity of an object of desire. This is unhealthy and leads to a negative downturn represented by giving up ones own ablility to be in control. To continuesly do that is sad and needs to be addressed. If it is not addressed it produces envy. If it is addressed it leads to the painful but healthy experience of letting go of the desired object for the sake of selfemanzipation. Hmm
 

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