Casting the Yijing on the rush....

[oniro]

I would appreciate some feed back from the knowledgeable experienced Yijing insighters. As I go reading through many quick requests for help on interpetation, very often made under the turmoil of pressing desitions or uncertainties, how valid are the castings of the hexagrams when the mind is so agitated ? There is allways in the Taoist scholars the clear prescription to meditate even BEFORE posing the question and building the hexagram. How can those frenetically built, rushed hexagrams driven by anxiety and uneasiness,pressed by the urgency of the moment be accurate and trustworthy?

 

[heylise]

My own experience is, that the answers are best when I am most involved in it. Full of anxiety, emotions, needing it badly. As if the emotions make it impossible for my thinking mind to interfere. Or maybe they connect me much more directly with whatever-answers.
When I meditate, the question goes a bit to the background, and the answer becomes less clear.

But it may be different for other people.

LiSe

YiJing, Book of Sun and Moon.
http://www.anton-heyboer.org

 

[candid]

It is a matter of mindset and our investment when inquiring. Meditation in the traditional sense is absence of reaction with transitory nature. Performing a Yi ritual during or following such a sitting will likely reflect that state of mind. But not necessarily. If, for example, some external incident of importance were to occur immediately following the sitting, the answer could speak directly to that incident, regardless of what the question might have been, IE: a tree falls on your house: Shock!

The reflective quality of Yi interaction is like a dream state: unpredictable. Interpreting a reading is like interpreting a dream, only the archetype images are set and defined in a reading. I ask a question consciously, but that question is underpinned with causes within myself. So, will my answer speak to my question or to the underpinnings? That?s called interpretation.

In LiSe?s example, she is invested entirely in her question. Her state-of-mind is one with her question, so there is no confusion with her answer. She grasps the answer because she is ready to catch it! This is due to her experience and development within herself and with Yi. Someone who has not yet developed this relationship, who asks from anxiety and desperate emotional need, is likely to become more confused by Yi?s answer. For that person, sitting and calming their self before inquiring would more often help them to receive a clear answer. There are exceptions to this, of course, such as when a tree falls on their house. Then, as with LiSe, the question is clear, and so will be the answer.

 

[bradford_h]

It's not the Yi that can't be trusted in such a state. It's the interpreter.
Candid used the word investment. I think what you're going to get out of it will (usually, on average) be in proportion to what you put into it. Extraordinary insight from extraordinary effort. Same for self improvement.

 

[learner]

My own experience is that the Yi ?gives? the answer according to what I need -regardless my state of mind. There were occasions when I cast the coins in a bit of a rush (because I was being taken to hospital!) and the answer came out crystal clear.
However, many times I have felt disappointed because having released the anxiety and calmly thought before posing the questions I got readings beyond my understanding and the answers remained elusive.

Strange as it may seem, I believe that the Yi ?knows? when a situation must be addressed as a matter of urgency.

Mirian

 

[candid]

Mirian,

If Yi speaks clearly to you regardless of your state of mind, your ongoing state of mind is sufficiently receptive and insightful to grasp each meaning. To see how this isn?t always the case just observe, as I?m sure you have, those threads where the inquirer?s confusion is driven deeper with every additional question/answer that he/she gives/receives. I fall into confusion for the same reasons, occasionally. My answers are not always perfectly clear. As Brad said, It's not the Yi that can't be trusted in such a state. It's the interpreter. At such times I must adjust my state of mind to grasp Yi?s answer, or to even present a clear enough question. Even if there?s not a clear specific question, my mind must be clear enough to understand Yi?s answer.

A shock, such as rushing to the emergency room, empties the mind of anything unrelated, like the tree falling on your house, and so the answer appears crystal clear.

When the mind is drifting calmly, there isn?t that intense focus and grounding, so answers appear more ambiguous. And that's ok too, if we enjoy contemplating.

 

[candid]

To clarify something. To invest doesn?t necessarily mean to invest consciously.

 

[seeker]

I agree with Bradford, it is the interpretation that may suffer, not the answer Yi gives. Unless of course, you do what I did recently and get so agitated and confused that you ask question after question until Yi finally shouts "enough already"!!! What I found recently is that if I did not understand the answer I asked more questions for clarification. That can be ok in a normal frame of mind, but if we allow our confusion to make us frantic, then we may be incapable of understanding and rather than ask more questions we should back off and think about it. This might actually be the better time to meditate. When we are stressed we often want quick answers, we are looking for some way to stop the pain or some guarantee that things will get better. We look to the I Ching, but sometimes the answers it gives just aren't that simple. It take more than one book or website translation to interpret the answer fully. If we rush into it, we may misinterpret the advice and follow the wrong path. When it goes wrong, we are shocked, demanding to know what happened, why it didn't work, when the fault was not in the answer, but in our rushing into things and getting only a partial answer. If we ask for directions, but don't listen well enough and miss a turn, we get lost, despite the fact that we had directions. Believe me, I am speaking from very recent experience. I have made a mess of my life and caused myself and others a great deal of pain and confusion because I did not take the time to listen carefully to the full answer.

 

[candid]

Hi Seeker,

No better teacher than experience. It's all theory without it. You had the guts to jump in all the way, then realized the water was deeper than you'd expected. But you're still alive and kickin' to tell about it. Gotta respect that.

 

[learner]

Just to add something that has just come to mind. Not always is possible to step back from pressing decisions and achieve serenity before consulting the Yi. There are occasions when if we could spend some time meditating on the issue we probably would not need to ask the question ---although I regard the Yi as a fenomenal way of exploring the depths of mind.

Anyway, if anxiety and agitation affect the ability of understanding the inquirer should allow some thinking time after getting the answer, rather than asking further questions that only bring more confusion.
However, any Yi response is worth considering ?especially those obtained during the turmoil.

Mirian

 

[heylise]

I have been thinking a bit more about how I actually consult the Yi.
I said I did not meditate, but in a sense I do. I try to make the question the only thing on my mind. That is why moments of emotional peaks, both enthusiasm or anxiety, give such clear answers. At those moments the mind is only that. But when I am calmer, it takes more effort to focus on the question.
So I meditate not towards a calm mind, but to a focused one.

When I get the answer, I don?t start to ?think? either. I stay the way I was, and look only at the hexagram(s). That is the deepest answer I get. When they make sense, then I can proceed to lines, or to details. The hexagram gives the ?time?, in an image, rather than in words which I have to think about. But it is important that the hexagrams do indeed give an image, and for that one has to know them very well before starting to consult.
The images have nothing to do with actual events, actual things. They are tendencies, not facts. They give direction to feelings, not to actions.

When there is an image, then it is a lot easier to understand the lines and other information. Everything is seen then in the light of this particular ?time?. Then it can be translated into actions, because the feelings which have to direct or evaluate those actions are more or less clear. Without them, every action stays on its own, without any connection to the one who performs them, and without any coherent result.

LiSe

 

[jeanystar]

Interesting replies....

I get clear answers when under duress....thank goodness!....but not when I am totally frantic.

I think a common denominator for getting clear responses is to be fully present....An emotionally charged atmosphere can be very helpful...emotions can make you scattered and frantic, OR, they can create a powerful field of intention/ presence, almost like a tunnel.

I get my best answers when I am emotionally charged, but also when I am able to focus this energy on a great desire to KNOW....and not just to hear what I want to hear.

 

[malka]

Oniro,

I think the answer to your question depends upon the answer to this question: When we consult Yi, who answers?

If you believe the answer comes from the power of your own mind, then being in the correct mind state may be appropriate, and may have impact on your answers.

I believe Yi sees past the crap happening in my mind, but challenges me to be clear enough to hear what it has to say (this is the spiritual development journey, I believe) and to accurately interpret and receive the message that I need.

So in my view, a clear mind isn't required before divining, but it sure is helpful afterwards. And the point of Yi, I believe, is to help me find and dwell in that clear place.

Blessings,
Malka

 

[oniro]

Dear Malka,

This morning I was uplifted and touched by your words . "8 times, 8 ways" to throw light into the "blind spot on our minds". This is sometimes the hard way I also get to understand things.

I suspect my blurry,dusty mind hardly can reflect the wholeness of the Tao,the one who knows and answer to my questions. Should I have that pure mind I wouldn´t need to ask anything. My attitude when approaching the reading is to be as relaxed and detached as possible of the question. By the moment I phrase the question I have gone through a process of drafting and re-drafting the body of my inquiry till I have the feeling that there is not any possible "leakage" for the Yijing miss the point because of my possible semantic ambiguities. I do really craft the question.All this process of course necessarily involves my discursive mind. But by the moment I finally got the final phrasing embodying a fully comprehensive question, then I should have distanced my self enough from the emotions or anxieties implied, to cast the Hexagram.

I use 16 wooden marbles. Possibly there is more conductivity of my own chi with an organic raw material. And I have skipped the colors distintion just by painting directly on the 16 marbles the yin or yang characters,including of course the changing lines according this methodology. Then I repeat mentally the question 6 times, while I hold against my heart the bag with the marbles. And I let my heart tell my fingers which marble "talks" to me.This way body and mind are walking hand in hand. I hope....

Oniro