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Codes, rules, manifestos, disclaimers and all

hilary

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Forum rules, forum code of ethics, forum disclaimer - all these things have been discussed, proposed and argued over a fair bit lately.

So I took the conversation to Yi, as you do, and got some interesting answers.

What if I post some ethical guidelines?
By which I mean a 'sticky' thread at the top of the page, covering such things as remembering your autonomy when you request a reading, remembering people's vulnerability when you make predictions, linking to your sources if you use unusual ones, and so on.
58.5 to 54

:eek:
The last time I saw 58.5 in this connection was as part of Rosada's reading, asking what the code of ethics should be. Line 5, and its relation to 54 seemed pretty clearly to be about readings that push people out of the driving seat of their own lives. It occurs to me that posting a code here also, to some extent, stifles the forum's natural exchange and the ability of people to develop their own consensus. It does take something away from people - especially, in fact, in the format I was thinking of using: lots of statements beginning with, "I will..."

What about posting just a few clear rules?
No 'I will', nothing at all open to interpretation, just plain imperatives.
22.1.3 to 23

The image - the aura, the atmosphere, the natural expression - stripped away? Since a whole lot of this forum's character comes from the lack of rules, that makes sense. So too do the two moving lines, which indicate the kind of involvement I would need to have to police such rules. For a loss-making part of my less-than-wealthy business, I don't think it's realistic.

What about doing nothing?
Just leaving the forum to do what it's always done: moderate itself, create its own culture, resolve its own disputes.
55.4 to 36
An eclipse over Feng, no sunlight, no doubt lots of grey areas - but the Dipper shines out clearly, everyone can see the basic guiding principle. Who's the hidden lord? That's open to diverse interpretations, but perhaps the working alliances are somewhat rough-and-ready. Good fortune, nonetheless.

What about a statement of purpose?
Not what to do, not even what we should do, but reasons why this forum's here at all. A lot can flow from that.
22
- unchanging. Well, well. You know, I actually like this one. We'd be creating a true image, a true expression, of what is here. Not changing its nature - but a) I don't want to, and b) I couldn't if I did. The Daxiang is apt, too.

Then Trojan made a suggestion I hadn't thought of. Nothing so broad and sweeping as rules, codes or statements of purpose, just a disclaimer: something to the effect that everyone here is human, and that comes with fallibility. I like this idea, too.

So I just picked up the beads for this one:
What about posting a disclaimer?
59.3.4.5.6 to 32

Four lines for the simplest, most straightforward and :)blush:) least pretentious idea. I get the strangest feeling Yi is taking the mickey. It's a good reading, though, and I can appreciate the Daxiang of 59.

Thoughts?
 

Trojina

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Erm I thought the 2 little paragraphs i suggested on page 1 or 2 of draft of code of ethics thread was a disclaimer, kind of, - my intention being if you juggled the wording and meaning around enough it could be a skeleton of a disclaimer - but you say the disclaimer idea is new to you ! Hilary you have not been paying attention :rofl: actually it was Listener who first proposed the disclaimer idea - anyway

I'm still thinking about the readings - actually even without benefit of the readings i like options 4(22) and 5(59-32) the best - maybe you could sort of combine them - an idea of what you see the forum as for which includes a disclaimer. I'd have thought saying what you think the forum is for could naturally lead into a disclaimer.

It does look like doing nothing (55 -36) isn't such a bad idea, not sure - but then saying what you think the forum is for with maybe a disclaimer, to my mind is hardly making a huge amount of interference, its very low key, it is in a sense doing nothing.

I can't see any harm in options 4 and 5 - I can't see how those options could possibly inhibit anyones freedom ?

Yes so ditch the code of ethics and rules and go with option 4 or 5 or both is my opinion - i think
 

hilary

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Mine, too. But I'm going out for the evening - headed away from the waters :) - and have a reading tomorrow morning, so don't expect anything to happen at exactly breathtaking speed. Or not from me, anyway.
 
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bruce_g

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Couple of tiny tweak suggestions:

This forum is for people to share their I Ching readings and exchange insights. There are many people here who may contribute their experience, knowledge and sheer generosity of spirit to help you interpret your reading. Please remember that we’re all only human, and make no claims to be 100% accurate in our interpretations of your reading; and, that no one's better placed than you are to make judgments and decisions about your own life.
 
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Tohpol

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Couple of tiny tweak suggestions:

This forum is for people to share their I Ching readings and exchange insights. There are many people here who may contribute their experience, knowledge and sheer generosity of spirit to help you interpret your reading. Please remember that we’re all only human, and make no claims to be 100% accurate in our interpretations of your reading; and, that no one's better placed than you are to make judgments and decisions about your own life.

Good job, say I.

Topal
 

getojack

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Couple of tiny tweak suggestions:

This forum is for people to share their I Ching readings and exchange insights. There are many people here who may contribute their experience, knowledge and sheer generosity of spirit to help you interpret your reading. Please remember that we’re all only human, and make no claims to be 100% accurate in our interpretations of your reading; and, that no one's better placed than you are to make judgments and decisions about your own life.
I like the tweaks... I notice you changed the British "judgements" to the American "judgments". Good job. :) Actually I dislike the whole idea of judging anyone and I'd remove that part entirely and change that part to "...no one's better placed than you are to make decisions about your own life." But I notice Hilary wrote "take decisions" not "make decisions". Is that a British thing too? I know you Brits "have a shower" and "have a bath" whereas Americans "take a shower" and "take a bath." But you "take decisions"? Curiouser and curiouser.
 
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bruce_g

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I'd never attempt to correct Hilary's spelling! lol.. will blame it on this version of spell-check. I agree, "judgement/judgment" isn't needed in the sentence.
 

Trojina

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'Judgements' is a more accurate word since not all readings actually involve decision making, ie one may just ask for a 'picture' of something.

Are you Americans scared of the word judgement ? Why do you always associate it with judging someone thats not what its about - afterall I make a judgement about whether I take an umbrella out according to how the weather looks (would seem a prudent idea right now) So how can 'judgement' used in the context of Hilarys proposal possibly be assumed to be about judging someone. I'm beginning to think you just have a totally different use of the word that we do. Why does jack talk about disliking idea of judging someone ? This has nothing to do with judging someone - its about judgements you make in your life about your priorities, wishes needs and so on.


I have no problem with the word 'judgement' since it does not have to imply judgement about someone - infact I prefer it - but if Americans really have a problem with it then I guess 'decisions' is ok :mischief: Hmm its just I won't stop using this useful word cos you lot have laden it with very negative connotations - end of rant

Oh re the disclaimer, sounds okay to me :)
 
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lindsay

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Good statement, but too many words. How about this:

"This forum is for people to share their I Ching readings and exchange insights. Many people may contribute their experience, knowledge and generosity of spirit to help you interpret your reading. Please remember we’re only human, and make no claims to be totally accurate in our interpretations of your reading. No one is better placed than you are to make judgements and decisions about your own life."

As for "judgements" I think (self-)judgments and decisions are two different things, and both can have consequences for the querent.
 

heylise

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I like it. Both the idea of a disclaimer instead of codes and everything, and the way of formulating it.

"a few clear rules" 22, great, but with 23 it sounds like too much stripping.
"a statement of purpose" 22, sounds like a very good one. But also as if it will not make that much difference.
"a disclaimer" 59-32, for steadiness solving some things - this one I really like.

LiSe
 
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bruce_g

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I've no problem with "judgement", just thought it was redundant. But don't judge me for it, ok? ;)
 

getojack

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Good statement, but too many words. How about this:

"This forum is for people to share their I Ching readings and exchange insights. Many people may contribute their experience, knowledge and generosity of spirit to help you interpret your reading. Please remember we’re only human, and make no claims to be totally accurate in our interpretations of your reading. No one is better placed than you are to make judgements and decisions about your own life."

As for "judgements" I think (self-)judgments and decisions are two different things, and both can have consequences for the querent.
This is way better, IMHO. The main problem I had wasn't necessarily with the word "judgements" but the fact that in Hilary's statement she has "...make judgements and take decisions about your own life." To me that sounds like you're making judgements about others and taking the decisions of others about your own life, which I don't think is the impression Hilary was trying to make.
 

Trojina

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Yeah I like Lindsays version including Bruces 'tweaks' ;) - am wondering though where will newcomers see it ? Is it something one signs before membership (not sure if one signs disclaimers) or is it just going to be placed somewhere prominent ?

And Jack re i hate animated gifs on your signature - you don't think its just a tad judgemental to Luis flying dragon do you - only I've not seen it for days :mischief:
 
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hilary

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There you go. It's quite an experience being the subject of such intensive group editing ;)

We can make or take decisions here in Wetland, we're not fussy - unlike you lot over there.
 

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