Cold Mountain, the Book, the Movie, the poet and the I Ching

[midaughter]

Charles Frazier, a practicing Taoist has based his book of the same name on the poet Tan shan, meaning 'Cold Mountain' In the film ,which is based on a place in the North Carolina mountains by the same name, Frazier has seen the elusive 'pattern'of Tao in the hills, the American Civil war and its sadnesses against the backdrop of two people almost inexplicably find they must be together.

The subtleties of the I Ching are found throughout the movie: When leaving on a train to fight in the civil war there is the slighest slip of a book page with a turtle and hexagrams. His woman, left behind in Cold Mountain, goes to a well and sees the future-a vision in the water of the well that reveals the soldier's return to her. Her vision, that of him walking on an Indian trail with crows flying in front of him towards her, is a vision imperfectly understood but this vision forms the basis of the events to come.

You will never see the I Ching treated so beautifully and with perfect subtlety in any book or film. Just opened in America, the film should be available in England in a few monthes. However, the book Cold Mountain by Charles Frazier should be available in print.

A poem the poet Cold Mountain, Tan Shan:

I divined and chose a distant place to dwell-
T'ien-t'ai: what more is there to say?
Monkeys cry where valley mists are cold;
My grass gate blends with the color of the crags.
I pick leaves to thatch a hut among the pines,
Scoop out a pond and lead a runnel from the spring.
By now I am used to doing without the world.
Picking ferns, I pass the years that are left.

Best,

Sun

 

[tashij]

I think this is very beautiful Sun, and thanks, it actually makes me want to see the movie which I didnt really want to see.

But I have a question...how can a life of the dao flourish in a country where money is more important than life? This is the way america is going. during the time of the civil war, people still could 'live free or die'. Now if they try to live free, they will die. That's the way it is going. If bush w steals another election, we're done for.

 

[tashij]

the dao always flourish, but what good to me or anyone if no one appreciates it?

 

[tashij]

you know i met a couple daoists who po-poooh buddhist dharma. all that talk of sufffrreing they dont like. gives tghem a pain in the head. but the truth is buddhist dharma very compassionate, try to tell you the truth you dont want to deal with, unconcious relaities that cn really lay you flat when you think youre gliding high.'stuck like fly on flypaper' we are to our delusions. just the truth. maybe delusion has an hatch to bliss, but most people too stuck to find out how to work their delusion to wisdiom. i like doaist i met a great dao ist magi once in an airport in london when i was sleeping there. he really helped me out, a french guy who was all dirty and scraaggly who was living in the airport till he could get enough money to get a flight back to france. told hi9m i was broke but i snuck some money in his pocket when he was asleep and left him to go on my buddhist rtetreat and he relaly helped me out and did something to get me free airfare. now of course i wished i gave him more money. im not knocking taoist, i love them. but you cant ignore cause and effect.d just a rant. too much coffee. ok love you guys.

 

[cal val]

Dear Sun...

I've read the book twice... the second time when my daughter, who knows I loved the book, tipped me off to the fact Miramax was talking about producing it with Anthony Minghella directing. I've loved Anthony Minghella's work ever since his first wonderful film, "Truly, Madly, Deeply," an absolute must-see even though one of the most dynamic scenes was edited out of the video version. If one can get their hands on his original art house version, it's incredible. When she gave me the news, I flew into a state of excitement and told her if she never worked on another film her whole life, she must work on "Cold Mountain." She worked on it. It was her last film project before starting her own business as a photographer.

I read one of the first drafts of the script which was a screen adaptation by Mr. Minghella. Until I read the script, because both Mr. Frazier and Mr. Minghella are brilliant artists, I had very high hopes for the film. Unfortunately, Mr. Minghella focused on racial bigotry in that early draft... a point which Mr. Frazier certainly covered but did not "highlight" in the book as Mr. Minghella did in the script. The story is The Odyssey set in the Civil War (which folks here call the War of Northern Aggression), and it was about love finding it's way through the harsh realities of that war in a primitive, raw and dangerous, yet beautiful, environment. Although I am a child of the 60s and the civil rights movement, I felt the focus on racial bigotry was a huge mistake and distracted terribly from the story Mr. Frazier told with such force in the book.

I was very disappointed in that first draft because Mr. Minghella "lived" with Mr. Frazier and the people of the area (Asheville) for three months before writing it. But then, it's taken me longer than three months to understand even a little about how that war and the environment have impacted the people here... their lives, their values and their beliefs.

I also didn't like the way Mr. Minghella rearranged the characters and rewrote their histories. I didn't read any of the subsequent drafts of the script, and I don't know if any of those things were changed or how. I would love to know your feelings on the differences between the novel and the movie. I have yet to see it. It will be awhile before it makes it to this town...if it does. This, the last capital of the Confederacy, is not a film loving town at all, but I WILL see it somehow, somewhere, sometime.

Love,

Val

 

[cal val]

Sun...

One more thing... where did you get that Charles Frazier based his novel or even the title of his novel on the name of the poet??? I believe that's pure coincidence and that you have some incorrect information there. As far as I know, reading what he's written himself about his novel, he named it "Cold Mountain" and decided to make it the destiny of the odyssey because one of his ancestors, Inman, who his main character is named for, had owned some land on or near the mountain. This was sometime ago, as soon as I finished reading the novel the first time, that I set out to learn more about Mr. Frazier, so my memory is fuzzy, but I do remember that he based his novel on Cold Mountain in the Blueridge Mountains specifically because it was part of his family history.

Here's a great link I just found that gives some pretty good insight into Charles Frazier and the writing of his story. It's a "diary" he wrote himself... in his own words... for Salon Magazine.

http://www.salon.com/july97/colddiary970709.html

Love,

Val

 

[cal val]

Sun...

I just found what I believe you're referring to in my copy of the book. On the frontispiece of the book, is a quote by Charles Darwin and one from the Han-shan poem.

"It is difficult to believe in the dreaful but quiet war of organic beings, going on in the peaceful woods & smiling fields."

-- Darwin, 1839 journal entry

"Men ask the way to Cold Mountain.
Cold Mountain: there's no through trail."

-- Han-shan

This does not mean that the book was based on either Darwin's journal entry or the Han-shan poem. Frontispiece quotes generally, at least in just about everything I've ever read, are added wisdom or beauty from sources unrelated to the story.

Love,

Val

 

[Sparhawk]

Hi Val,

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

I've read the book twice... the second time when my daughter, who knows I loved the book, tipped me off to the fact Miramax was talking about producing it with Anthony Minghella directing.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Althugh I am completely ignorant of Mr. Frazier's book and himself I really appreciate your educated input on this matter. Based on what I've read here, before your message, and in another list, I was on my way to the movies driven only on the fact that apparently the book had some Taoist connections. It appears not to be the case.

Which goes on to demonstrate what happens when people is shown a little lint hanging on a wall and think that if they pull from it carefully they will find a whole ball of yarn in the other end. Sometimes, lint is only lint and coincidence can be easily confused with synchronicity...

Caroline, the metaphor is not addressed to you (I find lately that I must clearly spell out intent) Still, I am curious about your reference that Mr. Frazier is a practicin Taoist. Where did you find it? Again, I'm completely ignorant about Mr. Frazier and his work.

Cheers,

Luis

 

[cal val]

Luis...

I want to know the same thing, and I have the same concerns. Unfortunately, Sun has several times posted information as fact on this forum without providing her source(s)... as is the case here. I love Mr. Frazier's novel and the doors it has opened in my mind, but nothing I have read by him or about him so far indicates he is a "practising Taoist." And I would really love to read his thoughts on Taoism...

So I've been scouring the net and coming up empty except for a Unitarian Church sermon in which the writer uses the references to sermons and preachers in the novel as examples to indicate Mr. Frazier's beliefs. He says, "The author has been influenced by the Chinese philosophy of Taoism and this gives shape to what his characters find beneath Cold Mountain." But how does this person know this? He hasn't provided sources either. Very frustrating.

To be honest, I find the term "practicing Taoist" most probably a stretch, and "has been influenced by Taosim" most probably realistic, but I can't know until I read it from Mr. Frazier's own words or the words of someone who has interviewed Mr. Frazier and is quoting him. That's just how I am. And I really don't like it at all when information is put out like this without sources. I'm feeling very frustrated right now.

Sun...

I too would really like to know your source(s) for this information. And I would really appreciate it if you would start posting your sources as well in future posts of this nature. Thank you.

Love,


Val

 

[cal val]

Here's the address for the Unitarian church sermon...just in case anyone would like to read where I copied and pasted my quote from:

uuchurch.uwctl.org/mountain.pdf

Maybe you can find this guy's (Rev. Thomas M. Perchlik) sources in there someplace. I sure can't, so please let me know if you do. Thanks!

Love,

Val

 

[cal val]

Luis...

I'm home today because we got a lot snow and ice yesterday. It's 19 degrees out right now and still snowing lightly. Nothing is moving in this town at all... except 4-wheel drives. So...

I'm thinking too much. And I'm thinking about Cold Mountain, you, the book and the movie. I highly recommend reading the book...very highly recommend. Charles Frazier's style is wonderful to read. One reviewer said it's as if he writes with a paint brush as well as a pen. I was living the story while I was reading it. I was on the odyssey with Inman, and I was alone and helpless with Ada (Inman's beloved) until Ruby came along. The novel is a National Book Award winner.

Although Anthony Minghella is a master at screen adaptations and tries to capture the author's orignial essence in the screenplay, he's still subject to his own perspective, and the script I read was much more his thinking and style. But Minghella is also a very deep thinking and feeling man (I've read much on him too), and I'll be very interested to see the final product... the film. As we all know he's an Academy Award winner.

I very much want at least part of what Sun wrote to be true. I want it to be true that Frazier is very into Daoism... and the Yi. I was just outside smoking, and I entertained the fantasy that he is and that he has found his way to this forum...as I think most Yi Jing enthusiasts must. And I had this little fantasy of him surprising us all by posting, in his own beautiful unmistakable style, his feelings about Daoism and the Yi... and how he applied them in the story. Ahhhh... what a nice dream.

So... if you're reading this, Mr. Frazier, I'm a big fan, and I would love very much if you would add your own thoughts to this thread... *grin*

Love,

Val

 

[midaughter]

Dear Val, Luis and all,
I read a long interview with Charles Frazier a few years ago but it was not on the internet. I just point out the quick picture of the turtle in the protaganist's book and the woman of the film twice going to a well to see the future. Although she reads the pattern in the water rather than doing a divination-reading the pattern in the water is exceptionally Taoist thing to do. If you don't see the Well allusion to the I CHing then I could agree with you that for you the symbolism indeed does not exist.

Its funny how two people (me and Val) can come away from a movie with two views-I did not any emphasis on the racial angle but I saw for the first time woman being shown about they really feel about this ugly human phonomena for which we carry the genes that are expressed in the male sex-WAR. One young woman widowed and utterly poor says when offered a gun for her protection, something to the effect that she wished all the metal in the world did not exist. This theme is continual throughout the movie. I am also fromt the American south, in fact, quite close to Petersburg, the sites of one of the battles in movie. I never feel so sad as when I see the grief of those times. Once I also had a strong vision that I had been a young woman nursing Union soldiers in a plantation home located in Natchez, Missippi. I remember the same anger at the war and suffering I saw and for what reason? I always wondered about the home whose interior I had seen very minutely in my dream and why I was in the south treating Union soldiers until I saw the old plantation in a magazine. There it was just as I remembered and, oh yes, it had been a Union hospital. I think Mr. Frazier touches a raw nerve of pain with many of us.
In the book, when our hero is trying to find the right way home he sifts some dirt-which Frazier calls a divination. Sorry, I should not call him a practicing Daoist, I should have said he simply is a taoist.
If I remember correctly, Frazier also has an interest in the poet, Cold Mountain and I think he has written on Taoist poets including Cold Mountain or Tan Shan, the name that means Cold Mountain.

 

[Sparhawk]

Thanks Caroline!

This I can digest better. Indeed, I would have to take a closer look at Mr. Frazier by myself.

BTW, well divination ( pegomancy) is quite universal and not a particuarly Chinese form of divination. Here is an interesting link on this:

Pegomancy in Northern Britain

Will try to find some more information on Mr. Frazier.

Cheers,

Luis

 

[cal val]

Sun...

Saying he IS a Taoist is even worse. Does this man want to be limited to one philosophy like that? Considering he is quite clear that his story is a rewrite of Homer's Odyssey...a Greek myth... I sincerely doubt it. Like I said in a previous post, "influenced by Taoism" is probably more realistic. But I wouldn't know. I have no resources... just your word. And I can't possibly take your word for it.

I'll tell one big reason. It's right there in your last post. You completely misrepresented what I said in my first post and made inaccurate comparisons accordingly. Read again. I said I read one of the first drafts... a very early draft of the script. And I said: "I didn't read any of the subsequent drafts of the script, and I don't know if any of those things were changed or how. I would love to know your feelings on the differences between the novel and the movie." But you completely reworded what I said to make your point about the "woman" message in the movie. I hope you can understand how I might suspect it's possible you could have done the same regarding the interview you read years ago.

Divination is not solely a Chinese thing Sun. Just about every culture that ever was has engaged in divination. And looking into water is not solely a Daoist or Chinese thing. "Ancient Greeks worshipped rivers, streams, wells, springs, and other bodies of water for their divination properties." http://www.ozmore.com/greek/water.html -- just one of thousands of possible examples... and what do you know!? The Odyssey is a Greek tale! AH HA.. Ah... but that doesn't mean Frazier had that fact in mind either. It could very well be that Frazier was alluding to "the well" in the Yi. Or...

Since wells and other bodies of water were very much considered sacred and used for healing and divination by the Scottish and since the population of the BlueRidge Mountains was comprised mostly of the Scotch-Irish (the American name for the early immigrants of Northern Ireland who were Scots that had fled Culloden and the "Killing Years" in Scotland and who were pushed westward by the British to act as a buffer between them and the native Americans), it could very well be that they divined in the well because it was part of their very own heritage. *big breath*


ANYONE!

I am really eager to learn more about Charles Frazier, his thoughts, influences, etc. and if ANYONE can provide me with resources I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you!

Love,

Val

 

[midaughter]

I wonder why I can't be an authority? I read the book and saw the movie and I see several subtle I Ching?Taoist references. Frazier writes in the traditional Taoist vein in that the book has several layers of meaning: There is the tragedy of war, the passion between a man and a woman, and the violence and poverty that occurs during war. But the layer of the Tao is, among other places ,is found in the Well which gives her the vision of his return. This is the subtle thread of the story. Throughout the movie she wonders about this vision she received from the Well.

Both man and woman independently wonder why they are so drawn together when they had hardly known one another before the war-from this one gets the feeling of destiny, of the will of heaven. The vision she has from the Well turns out to be that destiny.

How many critics would know this or even be sensitized to the subtle layer of meaning? And yes, one finds the Tao here-the future foretold after 'drinking' from the Well-that act is the mystical allegorical thread that weaves itself through the events of the movie as the future unfolds.

Frazier writes with a paintbush as they say-he is being subtle about the Tao and the Well-this is our secret world to which he speaks. that's what I see-it fairly lept off the pages of the book and the movie, at least to me, is a faithful rendition, amazingly so.

 

[bradford_h]

Hi Mary-
Someone has mistranscribed Han to Tan and you've inadvertently picked it up (unless it's from a minor dialect). The word is Han2 (Mathews 2048, Rad 40+9). It's the same "cold" that describes the spring in the Well at 48.5.
b

 

[cal val]

Sun/Caroline/Mary...whoever you are...

I see then. This is just YOU reading into the book/movie what you want without considering any other possibilities...without considering the subjectivity of doing so... and then trying to pass it off as objective fact... and spreading it around the net.

Oh well okay... that makes perfect sense to me... uh huh.

Love,

Val

 

[midaughter]

Men ask the way to Cold Mountain.
Cold Mountain: there's no through trail."

-- Han-shan

Charles Frazier is writing in the Taoist style where mystical things are hidden within the text or characters (as in writing)

The poem above, found on the cover of the book, is a tip: Cold Mountain means the town, its people and the events that shape their lives which has the Well where they try to 'see' their sweethearts, AND ALSO the poet, AND the mystical place where 'there is no through trail' In the mystical sense Cold Mountain becomes that place of magic where the Well can be found that will reveal the future, sometimes in dark visions.

This is traditional Taoist writing practice-many Chinese poems have hidden meanings and references. For example in writing 'The Secret of the Golden Flower" by the looking at the writing contains the idea for immortality as I remember.

The Well, Hexagram 48, in the view of Ni, Hilary, and Midaughter is the primary symbol(there are certainly others) of the I Ching's reference to itself-the Well.

The interview of Frazier's which touched on some of these topics is what led me to read the book.

 

[cal val]

Sun/Caroline/Mary and whoever ELSE you are...

The more you talk, the more my dream of Charles Frazier sharing his thoughts on Daoism and the Yi on this forum fades...

I'll leave it to the British...like Kevin...*grin* who speak fluent "inference" to explain to you what I just said.

Love,

Val

 

[hilary]

Hm... would just like to say that I find Yi-references jumping off half the pages I read nowadays. I think it comes of thinking in hexagrams,something I'm quite sure Mary does. I enjoy imagining that these authors might be, or might have been, closet Yi-users...

 

[bradford_h]

Hilary-
I had to chuckle at your last post.
True believers ask me how often I read and/or cast the Yijing.
There's little invisible hexagrams peeking out from behind everyhing I see.
I can't run far or fast enough to get away from them.
b

 

[Sparhawk]

So true. Isn't it funny? It reminds me of the Matrix movie and those guys at the computer consoles reading whole images out of the falling characters like it was linear text.

L

 

[cal val]

Well if it's any consolation...Anthony Minghella's wife translates Buddhist poetry and he thinks in terms of cycles.

"I started off as a playwright, so it's kind of bizarre to me that I've gotten into this 10-year cycle of adaptations." http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/entertainment/movies/7531883.htm...

I'll learn.

Love,

Val

 

[midaughter]

I would not be surprised if the name Cold Mountain, referring to the poet, by terms of the Chinese characters of the name refer to some deeper mystical thing.

This stylistic method of layers of meaning was an honored literary convention in Chinese writing, particularly the poem. Frazier tells us that he writes in this Taoist convention by the poem on the flap of the book, among other things .

The inherent, perhaps the mystical pattern or li becomes one the layers of meaning in the book. The author must be careful not to give it away by too obvious a treatment. This liteary convention, I believe, can be found in the Book of Changes as well.

The pattern is so subtle that you do not see any of it at all until you see the first thing and then it becomes perfectly clear. It doesn't from a competely logical place, all at once it becomes clear-the tao is clear. This literary convention very often found in Taoist writing .

It could be analagyzed to looking in a field for mushrooms. First you can't see one at all; when you see one, the field becomes covered with them.
Its an aha.

If you haven't read the book or seen the movie, you probably will see the Li or pattern immediately because you have been tipped off. Look for the Turtle covered with hexagram which comes on the screen for an instant, (I am going back to see the movie to make sure-it was so fast. He was flipping the pages of a book his girlfriend had given him.)

And, Hilary, for heaven's sake, keep an open mind until you have the evidence espcially including your intuitive, tao-mind!

 

[midaughter]

Han-shan and his friend Shih-te were Chinese Zen recluses who lived at a place called Cold Mountain in the T?ien-t?ai range that stretches along the coast of Chekiang Province, south of the Bay of Hangchow, in the late eighth or early ninth century.

What we know of them comes from the preface, written by a T?ang Dynasty official named Lu-ch?iu Yin, for Han-shan?s Cold Mountain Poems :

?He looked like a tramp. His body and face were old and beat.
** Yet in every word he breathed was a meaning in line with the subtle principles of things, if only you thought of it deeply. Everything he said had a feeling of the Tao in it, profound and arcane secrets. *** [so, is Frazier saying he writes in the same way with profound and arcane secrets?]

"His hat was made of birch bark, his clothes were ragged and worn out, and his shoes were wood. Thus men who have made it hide their tracks: unifying categories and interpenetrating things.? [This is the pattern or li-the categories untified and events interpenetrating.]

http://weblog.delacour.net/archives/000381.html

Why do you think there is no through or direct way to Cold Mountain? You cannot get there from here-meaning your logical mind cannot get there only your Tao mind.

So, Val, when you become flustered I think this is not her Tao-mind, not her profound and subtle mind. This logical mind wants every T crossed and every I dotted. Above all, it wants an authority. I say your Tao mind is an authority.

Best,

Sun

 

[cal val]

Sun/Caroline/Mary...

Oh I'm not flustered at all... really. In fact, I'd very much like you to point out the subtle hidden references to Daoism and the Yi in "Cat in the Hat" and "Green Eggs and Hams" too... if you will please. Then I have some Shel Silverstein poetry I'm wondering about as well... when you have the time, of course.

Thank you!

Love,

Val

 

[midaughter]

Some critic tried to put me down -
"Your poems lack the Basic Truth of Tao."
And I recall the old timers
Who were poor and didn't care.
I have to laugh at him,
He misses the point entirely,
Men like that
Ought to stick to making money