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Nor is a brick wall or flooded gully, you just have to do things differently or choose a new path, it counseling specifically to take a look at what you are doing, and do something else.39 clearly isnt a complete disaster.
You may want to look more at 3, it isn't about finishing what you started, it is about reaching out for help/allies at the start of something, creating networks.Hexagram 3 is obviously about finishing what has been started,
That is a very odd thing to say.shame that we dont get more external stagnation.
I think maybe it's just my interpretation of carrot fly that puzzles you, rather than of Hexagram 39 - I'm an entirely novice gardener. 39 is not 'stop trying' but 'try a different way' and 'get help' - so companion planting might be a good application, come to think of it.Hilary, Hi. Puzzled I am in your interpretation of the Hexagtams. You quote Wilhelm so I will quote from him.
Hexagram 39.. "perseverence brings good fortune". So I cannot see how you would be thinking that giving up, just because you may not at this point know how to beat carrot fly (which isnt that difficult by the way) is a reason to stop trying when "perseverence" is clearly the indicated way to proceed. Buying carrots when you have a few carrot fly, as 39 clearly isnt a complete disaster, hardly seem to be presevering. Try growing a different variety, companion planting to hide the scent, a barrier, as carrot fly only fly a certain height from the ground, how about just cutting out the inedible part and enjoying the flavour that only comes when you grow your own and pick fresh.
Hm?Hexagram 3 is obviously about finishing what has been started, and not taking on new tasks, nothing should be undertaken.
Again, it's a matter of garden-interpretation rather than hexagram-interpretation. In this part of the world, it's in May that things really grow like mad. And in my experience, Hexagram 3 is more creative chaos and less 'initial difficulty': 'Clouds, thunder, Sprouting.' (Which is exactly what happens. You have an apparently-empty seedbed, and then it rains, and suddenly the seedlings are 4 inches high while the weeds are turning into a jungle.) The Sequence (xugua) begins with 3:But puzzled I am as to how you derive that the garden is growing and proliferating when the message is clearly one of difficulty, apart from the flea beetles, which only happen once the initial difficulty has been overcome and everything is growing, every thing in your garde seems to have gone beyond Hexagram 3.
Hm, yes, at one level I think you're right. The nuclear hexagram of 12 is 53, so it holds that potential for deepening/ rooting. But the experience of 12 is not at all wonderful.I take Hexagram 12 to be a fantastic opportunity, a time to recognise that the external is temorarily stuck, that I had no part in it being stuck, and so cannot permit any reward that might arise from it, it is a time to focus on the "inner ", it is not the time of action in the external but it is the time for action in the internal, what a wonderful Hexagram, shame that we dont get more external stagnation.
All the best, Dave
Paying attention to words like 'zhen' is always a good thing, but it's good to read them in context. There are many different kinds of perseverance/ constancy/ determination (or insert your preferred translation here...) in the Yijing. 39's Oracle says,Hi Hilary,
I agree that Hex 39 perseverence is not identical to another Hexagram, but the point I was making that with your gardening analogy you were suggesting giving up and perseverence obvbiously does not mean doing something different than you have been.
The leap in question was made by the authors of the Xugua. I find they generally seem to know what they're doing .I think transporting the entire ten thousand things to be a representation of sprouting is rather a large leap.
... and yes, exactly, all that. Blackspot, radishes, flea beetle eating the radishes, lettuces, slugs eating those, the whole lot. This is why the noble one needs to weave with the warp, and why we need feudal lords: there is a lot of stuff out there to get to grips with.We have Yin and Yang and so we have everything else and there is no space that is not filled by the ten thousand things, sprouting is everything and is just as much the virus, the bacteria, the weather or the slugs that prevent a seed from germinating and growing just as much as it is the part that we call the sprouting of a plant.
Yes, you'd think so, but this expression can cover both. Have you read Harmen's article about it?I think I understand the confusion about Hexagram 3. One can of course wander around with no direction at all but that really would be rather is foolish thing to do. How can we begin any indertaking unless we know where we are heading, so "you you wang" is simply saying know where you are heading, and of course is one starts an undertaking, moving away from the centre, without knowing the destination or even the direction one is intending then one really has to be considered ignorant of understanding and needs the assistance of others. There being a findamental and huge difference between exporation of the unknown and moving in a particular direction.
It might be better to describe it as working to expand the realm of the known, or knowable. That's a big part of what feudal lords are for: to expand your reach.There is nothing in Hex 3 to suggest that there should be an exporation of the unknown,
I'm not quite clear what you're getting at here, but now is probably a good moment to go back to a simple, literal translation of the original:in fact you confirm that it is about a "specific purpose and direction, so should be understood before the venture was begun. No wonder that we get Hex 3 if we have failed to have the understanding of where we are intending to go and the dorection we might take to get there. No wonder we have difficulty at the beginning and need the help of others. So I think that "you you wang" really validates my initial point that Hexagram 3 means a different thing than the gardening analogy suggests.
Thanks.Please forgive my formatting youthful folly. I am ignorant of the ways of such technicalities. I have acheived it in one post, but that must have been luck rather than any skill or judgement. I shall endeavour to correct my ways to make any post more readable.
For the reason you said later - they spend a lot more time on it than I, at least, ever will. Same reason experts in any field know more than non-experts.Firstly why should we place any any "I Ching authors" on any sort of pedestal and think that they had any more insight that we are capable of.
I think this is why no single human being will ever be able to apprehend the complete meaning of any part of the I Ching, because everyone's "inner worlds" are different.But we can also direct our focus to the inner and recognise that the Yi, while it can be taken in the most external way possible, is a reflection of the inner world in general and our inner world specifically.
I share your feeling that each hexagram has a 'fundamental essence' that we can seek. (Though I also think Liselle's quite right that it's ultimately ungraspable.) How do you arrive at your sense of what that is?I think I see the misunderstanding here. I am trying to focus on the spirit and essence of the Hexagram and not the particular words, which if course come after the event if a Hexagram.
So I would say that a Hexagram exists as a fundamental essence and the words that try to describe it will always struggle to do so. If we get overly caught up in the language we may well miss the fundamental principle that is at the core of each Hexagram.
That seems about it in a nutshell - and how each of us puts all the pieces together is going to be a bit different.I share your feeling that each hexagram has a 'fundamental essence' that we can seek .... I find my feeling for a hexagram emerges from its structure and what it says, along with its relationships with other hexagrams, along with experience in divination.)
I agree. But it depends on one's definition of "constructive" criticism and a "good" argument, and how one presents those.So I find no problem with constructive criticality or a good argument. If we all agreed we would unlikely learn much.
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