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confusing new girl

kincadefoster

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There is a new girl in my life. Things started out with her texting a lot saying stuff about how much she really likes me, is very interested and afraid she will drive me away with all the texting and forwardness.

We have known each other only a couple weeks. We both have busy lives and have only spent 2 nights together where we cuddled, made out, and didn't have sex yet because we both agreed to take it slow. However I was telling her about my philosophy that being exclusive, but not necessarily committed or serious, is the way to go. Focusing on one person at a time is the only way to really know someone and if they're right for you.

So she asked if we were being exclusive and I said yes as I said it's the way to go. Then she stopped texting as much, we haven't seen each other in over a week and I've heard the following excuses over the last week, whether it's just why she can't text right now or why we can't hang out. The excuses "I'm at the doctors for a stomach ache that won't go away and I lost my job for missing work" "I'm laying down right now with a migraine" "my phone doesn't work and I can only receive texts, not answer" "I'm out of town and forgot my charger, phone is dead, so I can't tell if you text me"

I realize these may actually be true, However, I have been cheated on a lot in the past and from my experience, this is what cheaters do, especially the phone excuses.

However, when she does answer, she acts like she still wants me around.

Right now I'm feeling maybe she asked for exclusive to keep me on the hook while she pursues other interests and that if she liked me half as much as she was saying, she would be able to find time with me.

I have been considering telling her I have rescinded the offer for exclusivity, that there's no point being exclusive with someone when we haven't even had sex and that if she really liked me she would find time, so if she wants to hang with me, contact me, and good luck.

However, I decided to ask YJ first. Last night, I asked, "What is my best course of action?" and got 57 unchanging
This morning I asked if I should hit her with the above about not being exclusive and until you find time, good luck and peace. I got 52 unchanging

And a third question for you all, does it mean anything that both of these are doubled trigrams?
 
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moss elk

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And a third question for you all, does it mean anything that both of these are doubled trigrams?

It means you got simple (easier to comprehend) answers.
I don't think it means anything more. Be thankful.
 

moss elk

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Hi,

You already seem to know that you want to be in an exclusive relationship.
This stands out to me: by rescinding the offer of exclusivity, you would be going against your own
wishes or commands intended to lead to your own happiness. Compromising/thwarting/sabotaging your own prosperity.

As the micro-soveriegn that you are in your own life, could the 57 be about you repeating your own orders to your self as to the rules you want to live by?

52 is easy: keep still, don't rescind the offer.

Her phone excuses remind me very much of some of the B.S. my teenage daughter sometimes tries to pull.
It's quite a common thing for people to mature on the outside before on the inside.
Life is funny that way.
 

ginnie

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You two have only known each other for a few weeks. Therefore, you don't know her, and she doesn't know you. I think you should both slow down and get to know each other more before taking definite actions. I noticed that she has come up with quite an array of excuses to avoid you. I was thinking that maybe she felt pressured and was doing all in her power to back away. 57 is saying to be subtle, and be slow.
 

kincadefoster

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Yeah, that figures... She was the one kept txting wanting to see me until we spent a night or two together.

But 52 keeping still says to keep still and quiet until it is time to act or say something....
I have been thinking this morning, it's been a week and a half now since we've seen each other, which is weird bc she kept telling me how much she liked me, wanted to see me, and couldn't stop thinking about me at first. Now the latest excuse, she and her kid are staying with grandma(yes, her ex's mother) at the moment and will let me know when she gets back. And I'm not really pressuring her, 2 short msgs in the last 3 days(on social media since her phone is "broken" or "no charger" or whatever).

So I started thinking this morning, how long should I wait before giving up and thought about having a conversation with her saying I enjoyed her company and like her, but I have a few emotional needs, one of which is wanting to talk to a person I'm supposedly seeing once in a while, and that I'm going to pursue other interests if this is how it's going to be. It's weird to me that someone who texted me a lot initially for the first week doesn't seem to want to talk to me. Even with a broken phone, she can always borrow someone's phone and call me or something.

So I asked if now is the time to talk/act and got 4.1.2.4.5 > 25

In particular line 1 stands out a little bit to me, Useful to remove shackles and manacles (fetters). And stuff about freedom.... maybe it is time
 
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ginnie

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But 52 keeping still says to keep still and quiet until it is time to act or say something....
So I asked if now is the time to talk/act and got 4.1.2.4.5 > 25

The yang change pattern of 4.1.2.4.5 > 25 is 58, talking and exchange. That is the way in to your question. The way out is the corresponding yin change pattern: 52. You have gotten the same advice that was given before. Hold yourself still and don't get in touch with her until she has gotten in touch with you.

You may think you need to speak with her but there is a difference between what we need and what we merely want. In this case, you really want to speak with her, but that is inadvisable right now. The I Ching is advising you to hold back.
 

kincadefoster

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Yeah... I got impatient and asked about a best course of action again, got 9.2.3 > 42. Seems to confirm 52 again...? However 42 lise bowl of raingod put all your pots out to catch the rain, so maybe I should start seeing other people...? I just don't want to be stuck waiting around for someone who isn't really that interested.

So I'm just basically waiting... I hate waiting, especially when she seemed to like me so much at first and I keep thinking now that if she really liked me that much, she would make time for at least a "Hi. How are you?" even if she's out of town with a broken phone, we have a very connected world these days, with many forms of communication.

The last girl I dated I dated for only a little while, but she would say things like she's busy or with friends and then suddenly txt me to hang out, meaning she cleared her schedule for me(she moved and I miss her...). I much prefer that over someone who keeps saying/acting like she wants to hang out, then disappears...:rant:

I realized I need something more constructive to do right now than wait and worry, so asked what can I do with myself in the meantime? 30.6 > 55
 
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ginnie

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As the king of your realm, you should set your affairs in order . . . That seems to be very general advice, as your question was very general.

Maybe this young woman who has so many excuses is just not for you. 9.2.3 speaks of returning to oneself, being led back, and not losing oneself. Maybe it's time to begin again with someone new. Just in time for Valentine's Day on the 14th! Then again, that day can be torture if you're not seeing anyone. I would say that if she doesn't contact you for Valentine's Day, then it's definitely over.
 

kincadefoster

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Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Even if she's busy and out of town, it's valentines and I should at least get a call or txt

edit: I had a talk with the friend who introduced me to her. Basically she hasn't heard from her either and insists she isn't that kind of girl and was mos def into me, and that her phone must be actually broken. So I feel better now and maybe this is why IC was trying to tell me to relax and do nothing. 30.6 cut off the head, or in other words, "get out of your head and stop overthinking." By the way the only other time I have gotten 30 in a relationship context was for a girl that it turned out really liked me and it worked out well and we always had fun together(twin fires)
 
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kincadefoster

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Thought I would update this... Yes, I'm not good at being patient.... :bows:

As I mentioned before, her friend insists she definitely liked me, but I'm impatient. I did get a small interaction from her on social media, a "poke" don't know what it means I would prefer "hi" or something although it's been established her phone is broken(besides what her friend said, I asked a friend to txt her, see if she txts back/asks who it is: nothing) and she may not have access to a computer where she is.

I asked the day after valentines if now was the time to cut her off and got 38.1.6 > 40. Line 1 basically don't assume anything without proof line 6 seeing someone as a devil or dirty pig, then lowering the bow, realizing it is a marital suitor changing to 40, not sure exactly what 40 means.

And today, I thought, "What if I just assume that everything is as she told me, that she is very interested, but cannot communicate for the given reasons? And what if I just treat her like I would normally treat a girl I like, reciprocating the way she acted toward me in the beginning" So, I asked and got 30.5 > 13 (30 again) something about lamenting, allowing myself to be vulnerable. I haven't heard from her yet, but I msged that I miss her and expressed how I was feeling; frustrated at the lack of communication and, well now I'm doing a 52 again...
 

mulberry

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I think you need to take a step back and stop fixating on her/directing so much attention her way. You don't really know each other, and she possibly feels the intensity if your interest and is finding it to be too much relative to the degree you know each other-- hence the distance. In particular it's not a good sign that you are already asking friends to check up on her (snoop, really) when you barely know one another.

You also really need to try to have some perspective on aspects of her life that you know nothing about that may be occupying her attention right now. You mention in passing that she has a child-- she's a single mom then, and has a huge responsibility. If she's a good mother then her child comes first and she just won't have the amount of time you seem to be demanding for an early, casual relationship. Also, staying in her ex- mother in law's house can't be easy... Just please try to have some compassion and perspective and patience. Right now you're mostly emanating anger, confusion, and impatience... And if it is apparent to strangers on this thread, it is probably also apparent to her in your communications.

30.5 is a very good bit of advice for you in this case. Reread that line a couple of times if you can. It's about seeing past vanity (your own vanity of wanting a response from her, feeling she owes you one) to real clarity. It's about much more than just expressing your upsetness to her, which really probably just adds to her own burden of regular old worries and is further alienating her. You should try to get to the root of why you are so desperate for attention from her & letting your emotional state be ruled by her reactions. Try to just be peaceful and strong and self-sufficient in your own mind and emotional state. That's more attractive anyway.

Good luck, and I don't mean to be harsh. I see glimmers of you trying to work through this and hope you're able to. But I think you should try to get to the root issue, which is not about her as an individual, but your projections onto her.
 

mulberry

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Also, separately, I actually think 38.1.6 is really auspicious for the relationship to work out. Line 1 has the fabulous and heartening line about one's horse always coming back to him (if it is truly your horse). And yes, 6 is about misunderstandings that lead to estrangement, but also that get resolved.

It is worth reading and pondering this passage from 38.1, though:

"When opposition begins to manifest itself, a man must not try to bring about unity by force, for by so doing he would only achieve the contrary, just as a horse goes farther and farther away if one runs after it. It it is one's own horse, one can safely let it go; it will come back of its own accord. So too when someone who belongs with us is momentarily estranged because of a misunderstanding, he will return of his own accord if we leave matters to him. " (Wilhelm)

You have a chance with this girl, but you'll blow it if you try to "achieve unity by force". Right now, she's that horse and you're chasing her, thereby driving her further away. Just let her go and know that if there is a real connection with her, she will come back. Trusting in this is part of how it will work out.
 

kincadefoster

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Ok, I get it, but she messaged me a lot at first and kept txting back and forth initially, so it's weird that she would want distance and I have only sent a few messages over a week. I usually mirror the other person somewhat in dating, if they seem to want to talk alot then I talk alot, and if more distant, I act more distant. I guess I was just thrown off by the sudden switch in behavior. But I guess that's how it is. I was planning on no more trying to reach her at this point until I hear something anyway...
 

kincadefoster

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I would say that if she doesn't contact you for Valentine's Day, then it's definitely over.

For a while there I was convinced I was doing something wrong. Here's this person who showed alot of interest at first, then sorta disappeared, that's not about me (pretty sure disappearing after showing alot of interest is kind of a red flag). However, there may be a legitimate reason...? Also, maybe I didn't really lose what I think I lost, someone who's going to be important in my life doesn't disappear after asking to be exclusive...
And the idea that I'm adding stress to her already stressful life by expressing my frustrations and stuff, well, not to downplay being a mother, but my needs aren't less important than anyone else's.

I think it's better to communicate things than let them fester and destroy relationships

But, I've thought of something else now. Maybe the line about the horse possibly means that the connection was made and that I just have to wait until she gets back like she said... Maybe she really has a reason she can't talk...

However, last time I got that changing line about the horse coming back, I think it was in a different hexagram and the girl did come back, and told me she had cheated on me. :eek:uch:

innertruth, I don't spend this much time and energy thinking and worrying about someone I do not like a lot just don't want to waste my time.
 

kincadefoster

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Well, I heard from her.

I had asked her to at least poke again if still interested in my last msg. She poked me, but then msged me. She has been very depressed, unsure what's best for her daughter right now, no phone, staying at a friends(lost phone, job, place to stay), and "wants to be friends" yet misses me, but didn't really explain whether she wants to be friends because of what she's going through or because she lost interest. Oh and a sorry if I misled or hurt you. And she said she would talk to me soon. I would think going through hard times would make someone want the support of someone good in their life(I know I'm very imperfect, but I also know I'm a good and decent guy)

I am thinking on whether to tell her how I'm feeling now and just break it off. I don't want to be demoted after we had some fun together and cuddling and making out. I won't do just friends because I have enough friends and prefer to spend time on people who actually want to be with me. And it just gets awkward and the friendship never really works out(this is why most people don't stay friends after breakups!)

Except for one woman who was actually being straight up about her position(and we ended up together after I refused the friend zone), every single time a woman has friendzoned me, it really meant, "I am going to put you on the back burner because you are a good and decent guy while I want to pursue other interests who aren't such a safe bet, then I'll come back to you, my backup boyfriend when it doesn't work out. Basically this moth-to-the-flame thing they have for douchebags(her ex was abusive, maybe she's one of these types)

And I realize this may seem unsupportive, but if she wants my support as a boyfriend, that's fine, and in the past I always put others' needs before my own and now I realize I help people more with their needs by putting mine first.

So, I'm feeling this may be the right choice, however, based on my previous IC readings about her, maybe things just need more time, plus this may not be the same type of situation. She said I was the first guy in her life to be respectful to her, and I've been in this position before, sometimes it takes a person time to adjust and fully appreciate this and sometimes they go back to what they are used to.

"What to do now?" 15.2.4 > 32
 

ginnie

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staying at a friends(lost phone, job, place to stay)

This is horrible. She's homeless, has no job, and she lost her phone, too. Yet she has the responsibility for herself and her daughter.

And I realize this may seem unsupportive, but if she wants my support as a boyfriend, that's fine, and in the past I always put others' needs before my own and now I realize I help people more with their needs by putting mine first.

"What to do now?" 15.2.4 > 32

The I Ching is saying that in order to continue, humility is the quality you'll need to cultivate. :)
 

kincadefoster

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Well, I heard more from her. I followed rosada's advice and offered to buy a phone. Just a prepaid $30-40 for a month, no big deal. She paid those two times we were out anyway(I was in between paychecks and told her I'd pay the next few times, and I had planned to, but then she lost everything and disappeared)

She refused, saying that she was too independent to accept something like that, and that she appreciated me and the offer.

Then, a little bit later, she hit me with the idea that she wants to take things slow, doesn't want to hurt herself or someone else by becoming attached too soon, and doesn't want her daughter to have that confusion. Slow is good, but I haven't even seen her or had a conversation in person in 3 weeks. That's TOO slow...

It seems to me that maybe she is worried I won't stick around. I didn't say this but I am a loyal, simple guy with simple needs(no point trying to convince someone with words). I am a safe bet. Once I like someone, they become my focus and I'm not going anywhere until I just keep getting rejected and give up.

That being said, I see two clear choices, really:

What happens if I slow down(like she seems to want me to) and basically woo her the old fashioned way(basically meaning just be patient)? 13.1 > 33 (she really seemed to like that I was respectful and did nice things for her)

What happens if I tell her(as I said above) that slow is good, but this is TOO slow and that I'm just going to date other people? 49.4 > 63 (I just had an interesting thought on this: The revolution will happen when the transition from chaos to order is complete, don't know if I'm right, but, when she's in a better position in life..?)

In the end, I just keep thinking that if she really liked me, whether she's busy and depressed and her life is hell or not, she would manage to make time to at least say hi once in a while(this week, there has been alot more: I got three messages in a week, but they were all heavy stuff, which is important, but I also like the light stuff, like "good morning" "how was your day/week", etc.)

Edit: so I just had a sort of epiphany feeling... Basically as I am an aries sun/scorpio moon I'm really good at sizing people up and what they are about, and although I really haven't spent as much time in person with this girl, what I know of her so far tells me that she is probably actually embarrassed about where she's at in life, and that may have alot to do with the no contact and that's probably why she wouldn't accept the phone.

Alot of you probably think I'm an a**hole, but I used to be this nice guy who always put the needs of others before my own, and no one really liked me. Then I learned to put my needs first. I have been through 3 6+ month relationships with borderline personality women. I have learned alot and I mean ALOT, my guy friends come to me for dating advice and I give them successful information that works, and at the same time, I'm still learning the balance between how to get my needs met, and just being an a**hole. Idk what to do, this is the first girl in a long time that was very sweet and nice to me without being selfish, at least, during the short time we saw each other. And then, she just kinda disappeared for a while and still nothing concrete is happening... lol I guess this is my 15 from earlier.
 
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ginnie

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What happens if I slow down(like she seems to want me to) and basically woo her the old fashioned way(basically meaning just be patient)? 13.1 > 33

Friends meet outside the gate. Everything is copasetic!

You know, a couple of weeks here and there is not really a very long time.

What happens if I tell her(as I said above) that slow is good, but this is TOO slow and that I'm just going to date other people? 49.4 > 63 ... The revolution will happen when ... she's in a better position in life..?)


I think you're right about when the revolution will happen.

Basically as I am an aries sun/scorpio moon

Could you get her natal info from her and have a synastry chart done, so you can see better what's going on in terms of relationship? I believe both Mars and Venus are currently in Aries, so that would seem to be fueling a lot of your drive to see her.
 

rosada

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My take on 13.1 Friends meeting outside the gate is not so positive. I see it as people being outside of the inner circle. Then 33. Retreat is a feeling of backing out of an agreement. I think if you're just "patient" you will remain outside and eventually one of you will retreat from any deeper commitment.

49.4 - 63 says you are thinking of changing the ground rules of the relationship. I think you are being advised this is a good idea but 63.After Completion says to me you should consider how you're going to then proceed.

What does "taking it slow" really mean? How about you frame it that taking it slow means you're not going to make indefinite commitments. The next time you talk how about saying something like, "Well I think you're right that we should take things slow. How about we set up a real game plan? Like we'll say we're taking things one week at a time. So we'd say that we are a couple, an exclusive couple for the next seven days and then at the end of the week we'll pause and if either one of us wants to call it off we can, no hurt feelings. But on the other hand, if it still feels good we can then commit again - maybe for two weeks or four, what ever feels right. It'll be like a trial marriage only in our case it's more like a trial going steady. :)"

The above probably sounds pretty silly but the point is to be talking in an open easy way about your relationship, because first of all being able to talk openly and honestly with a partner is the greatest aphrodisiac there is but also if you do talk about boundaries you'll learn how the other person really feels about you because although it may just be your writing style from what you've said it sounds to me like she isn't all that interested but doesn't quite how to say "This isn't going to go any further."

Well, best of luck with this. There's a very nice Venus and Mars trine Saturn Tuesday. Maybe you'll get to talk about The Rules successfully then.
 

kincadefoster

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I've been thinking and...

In the end, there's no real choice. I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't situation, so maybe that's why I originally got 52 and even 38.1.6>40.

From what I know of her, I suspect she is having this reaction where because I didn't run away at signs of high interest like other men in her life, she thinks I'm being smothering. But expecting someone I'm supposedly seeing(or even a friend) to talk to me once or twice a week isn't smothering, despite what any of you or she may think. It's not like I'm messaging her 9 times a day.

In the end, I'm a sidereal pisces/libra moon and I just want to be expressive and communicate and sort it out, but that's not an option at the moment...
 
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kincadefoster

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Alright, it's time for me to make a decision, let it live or die, I can't sit in this limbo mode, it's actually painful.

I ignored her for about a week and she started messaging me again back and forth and not 3 days in between. She said she had been dealing with her ex(her words) for a week and a half and he finally left. She asked what I was doing the next day. Long story short, she came over, but had her daughter, and since some here have told me I'm being pushy I tried to not be pushy, didn't touch her at first, but when she was sitting next to me, I held her hand and soon she was cuddling me. Then a while later she was standing up and I hugged her and she held on to me for a long time and so I kissed her and she told me that there was something about me that she just feels very calm and relaxed around me. So there was some cuddling and kissing and it didn't go beyond that, especially since her daughter was close by. The next day, a few hours after she got home, she friendzoned me again, Lol. saying again about wanting to not rush(apparently 3 nights together in a month is rushing..?)

I haven't asked IC anything for about a week, so I asked my best course of action 32.2 > 62. It could mean I just need to keep doing what I am doing and could also mean that this is just how it's going to be, repeating the same cycle. It could also mean to do what I was going to do anyway. What I'm most thinking of doing is to just ignore her for a month and if she doesn't want me back, then f*ck it! I had a girlfriend once who kept friendzoning and unfriendzoning and it was off and on, I'm not doing that again. :deadhorse: However, she could actually be telling the truth and not ready for another relationship right now and will become more consistent when she's ready.

I know ignoring her for a month sounds like I'm playing a game, but the truth is, it's a power play. I'm not concerned about power, the idea is to have a balance of power where I'm not feeling this way. After everything that's happened, there's a serious shift of power in her favor and I feel like she's calling all the shots basically. And I would no contact until I feel things are more like 50/50. Basically I want to feel like I'm actually the man in a relationship :bows:

I didn't post this before, but two weeks ago I asked IC what if I do what I did with the last girl who friendzoned me(basically told her I don't want just friends, I have enough friends and there are women out there who would want to be with me, so good luck and take care and she ended up changing her mind after a few days of silence) I got 35.5.6 > 45
 
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mulberry

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Maybe you shouldn't date someone who has a child? It sounds like the level of involvement and attention you want and need in a relationship is quite high, or at least, much higher than is possible for the majority of single mothers to give. She is probably cautious adding you to the mix considering she is already in a precarious financial and living situation with a daughter to care for, an ex to deal with, and lots of other problems. I doubt she wants to have another child anytime soon either, and that may be where the hesitation to go further is coming from. Accidents happen and that might be on her mind.

It's also a little disturbing to hear you use the phrase "friendzoning" repeatedly, and focus so much on who has the "power".. Have you considered her point of view, at all? She may have reasons for going slowly (such as those I mentioned above) that have no devious or mean motive or intention towards you behind them. I imagine she might be quite shocked and disturbed if she could read your comments on her that you've written here. You don't seem able to really connect her circumstances to her behavior; rather you take everything she does personally or as a sign of bad character.

Honestly, her life seems more complicated than you have compassion for, and it might be happiest for both of you if you focused your attention on women with fewer responsibilities and more time for the fun side of dating, etc. Unless you are prepared to really learn and grow and try to be patient and understand her with empathy.

32.2 is saying "it is possible for him to control his inner strength and so to avoid excess". That's you. The I Ching has been very generous with you with its advice for this matter, and that's what prevents me from out and out saying "leave her alone for both your sakes'". But it is saying that you are capable of controlling your passion and avoiding excess, and I suggest you try that for a little while longer. It is NOT saying to play games or try to hold onto power. It's saying you have a lot of strength and passion; use your strength to control your passion, for the sake of Duration.
 

kincadefoster

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I'm feeling misunderstood. It wasn't about a game, it's about personal power, not power power, and I don't have any in this situation, in other words, I'm not feeling respected, no matter what the case.

I asked a friend who also is a single mother about this situation and she said she mos def would keep talking to me if she likes me no matter how sh*tty or hectic her life is.

I really get it now, this girl is doing this because she is scared and in survival mode, like the runaway horse...

But, in the end, whatever the reason for it, this behavior towards me manipulative, even if it's subtle.

But, I'm going to be patient, for a while. The gods put us together, for whatever reason. However, in the end, it will never work out unless she takes that risk and rolls the dice on someone, just like everyone else does... I may be very imperfect and even an a** at times, but I'm doing my best...
 
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ginnie

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I sympathize with your plight, kincadefoster, but she just may not have enough energy these days to go around to everyone who needs her. As you said, she is scared and in survival mode. The role of the male in such a situation would be to be as supportive as possible, because she is a woman carrying responsibility for a child. You might want her all to yourself, but that isn't going to happen so easily. Her life at present sounds highly disordered. It's a difficult situation for everyone involved; no doubt about it. Give yourself a pat on the back for deciding to be patient . . .
 

kincadefoster

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A lot of previous women in my life treated me bad, but they always talked to me...

But after being disrespected by people so long, and having to demand respect to get it(basically alot of women I have met the past few years are spoiled brats!), my first reaction was to demand respect and cut someone off who doesn't seem to respect me...

So I wanted to know why my readings were pointing to a different approach in this case(and yeah, it could well be a learning experience). So I asked one more question: "Why was I being counseled(By IC and others) against cutting her off?" and got 7.1.2.3.6 > 22

Yes, I will be patient a little longer, but I'm afraid the "magic" is going away...
 
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ginnie

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Yes, it is often difficult for discipline and magic to co-exist . . . You're in the army now! :)
 

kincadefoster

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Yeah... looks like she got back with her abusive ex.....
So, yeah... I was right,. I'm the backup boyfriend... However I still don't understand why my IC readings don't exactly fit backup boyfriend....

And, yeah, we had that rare moment when we first met, that moment where you lock eyes and realize yoiu like each other, and, well, at this point, we all know there was a real connection(I can be egotistical all I want, but, do the math....) So, apparently, she can let that go, and, sadly now, SO CAN I ....... But I would rather just be with someone than be right..... :'(
 
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