Contradictory reading?

[Peter Belt]

Hi I Ching Clarity Community! This is my first post here, I hope I'm following the guidelines alright. I have been interested in I Ching for the past 6 years (when it encouraged me to change my day job as a Project Manager in a bank to embrace my passion as an artist photographer... and 6 years later my artistic activity is thriving -very recent positive review of my work in the Washington post), and actively "studying it" for the past year.That was for the introduction, here is my (first) question: of one of the readings that has me puzzled the most in the last year (actually this is the reading that pushed me into looking the internet for some "forum" discussing I Ching readings). I created a company for my business (selling my art), but I am not too sure about the "company" frame for my work (compared to freelance framework, or some other options I have here in Europe), so I asked the I Ching "What would be the results mid to long-term to keep my company as it is today?"The answer was 53 with line 4 changing into 33. 53 with 4 changing tells me about something growing slowly, with rich potential, in spite of temporary difficulties. It also tells me about a well-deserved pause, in order to build strength.Number 33 is more about a definitive "break-up" a full-blown retreat. So what it is, something growing slowly or something that needs to be stoped altogether?Thank you so much for your insights about this!!All the best, take care.Peter

 

[Lilly-La]

Hi Peter,
i ´m not a very active member here but on and off i enjoy this site. So happy welcome to you from my side a European (GER) too

Regarding your question: no idea who or when this Hex line linking to another Hex was 'invented' or who brought it up but originally it was not in the Yi. Not even in the 'younger text'. Personally i don´t see many meaningful line to HEX links. I believe it is the thrill why people stick to it. A Hex and a line already contain enough to mumble about. Nevertheless there are links between lines of different Hex´s but certainly not the way you mentioned above.

There have been discussions here in this forum and some like to go with this line to HEX linking but many others don´t.

 

[Liselle]

Hello, Peter, nice to meet you! I'm glad the I Ching helped you into a flourishing career

The first thing I noticed about your current reading is that the primary hexagram 53 seems to be taken directly from your question. You asked about "the results mid to long term," and 53 is about "gradual progress" - the long term.

Yes, 33 is about retreat, but I don't think it means "break-up" at all. It's a retreat to stay safe, a strategic retreat, retreating for protection. I've had 33 unchanging twice recently when I did something that wasn't very nice. The first one, there was a wasp or something similar on the inside of my window. I do not like bugs. But if it's just a fly or a lady bug or something, I might try opening the screen door and nudging them to fly outside rather than killing them. (Which honestly is not only to be nice, it's also because then they're gone entirely and I don't have to deal with their corpses. ) However in this case it was a nasty wasp so I wanted it incapable of stinging me as fast as possible. I sprayed foam tile cleaner on it, scooped the whole mess into an empty yogurt container, put the lid on it, and took it outside to the dumpster. Then I worried about the karma involved in giving something a bad death by smothering (will I be landed on by a swarm of bees sometime). I was relieved to get 33uc - Yi was telling me I was protecting myself, which is forgivable.

The second time, I had to talk to someone who I found very creepy for no obvious reason. He wasn't being mean or anything, it was just my reaction. I was quite rude to him so he'd leave and stop talking to me. I asked Yi about it and got 33uc again, and again I think Yi was reassuring me that it's okay to protect yourself.

So in your answer, the two hexagrams might mean something like, "Staying safe on your long journey." Does staying as a corporation have any safety benefits or legal/financial protections? People have also gotten 53 referring to administrative procedures, so that fits, too. I think in the U.S., incorporating has protections that other forms of business don't, but of course I don't know about your country. (Nor do I know much about the U.S. since I've never owned a business, but I hear general scuttlebut that it's better to incorporate.)

I think the line fits in with that -
'Wild geese gradually progress to the trees. Maybe find a flat branch. No mistake.'

Unlike other birds, geese don't live in trees, they live in grassy areas around ponds and so forth. Perching on a tree branch wouldn't feel natural to them, and maybe it's not their final destination. But it's a stop on their way, and the oracle says, "no mistake."

So it may not be what you want right now (line 4), and there might be a better solution eventually (53), but it sounds like it might at least be a safe (33) perch for now, and maybe you'll find something better later on.

 

[Peter Belt]

Hi Lilly, Thank you very much on taking the time to react. I think maybe my writing was misleading but what I meant is that I had a resulting 53 hexagram with line 4 as a changing line, which lead to the second hexagram 33. Take care!

 

[Peter Belt]

Thank you very much Liselle. Your wise reading makes indeed very much sense.All the best!

 

[Lilly-La]

Hi Lilly, Thank you very much on taking the time to react. I think maybe my writing was misleading but what I meant is that I had a resulting 53 hexagram with line 4 as a changing line, which lead to the second hexagram 33. Take care!

Hi Peter,
you´re welcome.

I did get your question but did not answer it straight away. I just wanted to point out, that 53.4 does not (necessarily) lead to 33. I personally would not take Hex 33 into account at all. Here is why:

53.4 is the image of a (hopefully temporarily) fragile position. Geese in transition are/were an important gift for a marrying couple. A symbol for a long happy marriage.
This goose here is in a rather unfavourable position plus on her own. (Hex 53 is also associated with widowhood btw)

53.4 rather points to Hex 12 (Stagnation, autumn equinox) the goose`s development / journey is in pause/standstill. It is autumn and winter is coming so the goose has to travel on. This is not a place she can rest on. But better than none.

Hex 33 has nothing to do with 54 at all. Hex 33 is about the superior man keeping the inferior man at a distance. It is the image of the approaching winter (inferior man) and the superior man (Summer) withdrawing. (The inferior man ist the one of 44.1 btw, the one which gets into trouble Hex. 6, it is the wasp annoying Liselle etc..)

However, from the images i would think: your are the lonesome goose, winter is ahead and there is a long journey to master. You have found a place to rest (some success) but you have to go on and that on your own. Your destiny is what you do (taking photographs) like the goose`s destiny is to cross the mountains before winter. Funny enough 'company' in english has the meaning of 'people around you, companionship' too. With a lot of effort the goose will find back to a/her flock and it takes another 3 years to get pregnant (again). It will take you effort and time to get your company going. For quite some time you will be on your own.

all the best & good luck Lilly

 

[Liselle]

53.4 rather points to Hex 12 (Stagnation, autumn equinox)

Lilly, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but 53.4 doesn't point to 12. It points to 33. If you start with hexagram 53, and change the yin line at position 4 to a yang line, you end up with hexagram 33. That's just a fact.

 

[moss elk]

Unrelated to the reading:

Stagnation and standstill are bad names for 12 anyway:
What is the jun zi doing in 12?
Seperating/divorcing himself from inferior people.

 

[Lilly-La]

Lilly, I'm not trying to be argumentative,...

Sorry Liselle, you are right -> if you close the yin line (53.4) it will graphically turn into 33. That does not necessarily mean the text/meaning/story of the Hex´s are connected. One could as well see line 53.4 slipping under 53.3 which would turn into 12.

All i wanted to point out is, that the popular rule -> changing Line X is linking to Hex Y often doesn´t work. Graphically it does but to me (and others) not by content.
Sorry again, i should have better opened a seperate thread...

 

[Lilly-La]

Unrelated to the reading

If you refer to 53 - 12, ohh no, not all, Moss Elk, they are very much related.

Stagnation and standstill are bad names for 12 anyway

May be ... I did use the Banes/Wilhelm translation most people know.

What is the jun zi doing in 12?
Seperating/divorcing himself from inferior people.

Hex 12 is a symbol for autum equinox (3 yin lines, 3 yang lines), a one time event in a year pointing to the approaching winter. Yin will ascend, Yang descends.

From the Hex 12 judgement:
The perseverance of the superior man.
The great departs; the small approaches.

The goose of Hex 53.4 is a great symbol reflecting the meaning of Hex 12. Not on the ground but not in the sky flying yet. She is a jun zi, has to part (request of the time) and spend the cold times of winter in a retreat before she (and her flock - the like minded who are blessed) can return. The goose (the flock) acts at the command of the highest (Heaven) thus is blessed and her feathers can be used for the sacred dance. Additionally the wild goose is pretty faithful (Hex 53, son in danger, man not returning, robbers) something Hex 12 is asking for too.

 

[Liselle]

But Lilly...if you don't go by what you're calling "graphically connected" aren't you just making up your own reading?

I mean, Peter asked Yi a question, and Yi answered with hexagram 53 with line 4 moving. That is what Yi chose to tell him. If Yi wanted to tell him 53 and 12, it could have given him 53 with lines 3 and 4 moving, which does change to 12, but that's an entirely different reading with different moving-line messages.

Now, if you're using an entirely different technique with Yi - there are many of those, and some members here do use them - here's what Hilary suggests:

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?8285-How-the-I-Ching-Community-works

A suggestion

If something about the way you do readings is unfamiliar to most members (eg the method, the text), please edit your signature to include a link to an explanation. (You can always write this yourself in Exploring Divination.)

This would be great, since then we'd understand more about what you're doing.

 

[moss elk]

53.4 rather points to Hex 12.

Seems like quite a stretch to introduce conversation about a hexagram that wasn't recieved and call it applicable.

If you picked it up from some system, or made the connection yourself, readers might benefit from an explanation.

 

[Peter Belt]

Thank you all for this very interesting conversation and explanations to my question! All the best to all

 

[Peter Belt]

Just for intormation, the translation in the french (Javary) translation is "Adversity"

 

[Lilly-La]

Hi Liselle,
firstly you are right, i should have given some better explanation the way i see (or i question) Hex connections beforehand.

But Lilly...if you don't go by what you're calling "graphically connected" aren't you just making up your own reading?

May be i don´t get you right and completely misunderstand you (if so sorry) but to me it reads as if there were a competition like 'i read it the 100% correct way'. I don´t question your reading above. (By the end of the day it is all up to the way Peter sees it anyway.) In my very first posting in this thread i just wanted to point out, that one can of course question the (current popular) connection. It´s not carved in stone.
Okay, i leave this for now and will give a better explanation some other day in a seperate thread