'Did the Earth move for you, darling?'

[marcos]

Dear Friends,
I read that Hilary's latest hexagram of the month is Hex 16 Enthusiasm (Issue 28). I have a further idiosyncratic reading on this: I read it as being orgasm (or enthusiastic sex, if you like). Has anyone read a similar interpretation anywhere?

The shape of the hex suggests (to my mind) two halves side-by-side, with one side embracing the other at the fourth line. Further the lower trigram is earth, or the woman, who is receptive; above is a mature male who is moving. The Image of thunder issuing from the earth with a crashing noise also ties in with orgasm (Hence my title).

Hex 16 Enthusiastic Sex is also a suitable partner for Hex 15 Modesty. If Hex 15 is Hamster (see elsewhere) it is also kind of complementary: Solitary vs coupling, especially at night.

The nuclear hex, the seed of the situation, is Hex 31 Wooing/ Courtship/ Influence.

I read the lines as follows:
Line 1. One proclaims one's pleasure and satisfaction. There will be misfortune. Translates as: I shout 'I'm coming!(or even 'I've come!'). It's about premature ejaculation (This is fitting for an initial, premature line)

Line 2. One is firm as a rock. (= rockhard = hard) One sees a thing without waiting till it has come to pass.(I'm imagining) With firm correctness there will be good fortune.
This line is about erection (and firmness).

Line 3. One looks upwards for favours while indulging the feeling of pleasure and satisfaction. If one does change there will be occasion for repentance.
This is about fantasizing during sex (cf Freud's 'when two people are in bed four people are present'. Also in NLP, looking upwards indicates a process of visualization is occurring)

Line 4. He who brings harmony (ie rhythm) and satisfaction. Great is the success which he obtains. Let him not allow suspicion to enter his mind and thus (girl)friends will gather around him.
This is about coming together and satisfying one's partner (which was apparently key in ancient Taoist love-making)

Line 5. He has a chronic (ie. long-term) complaint but lives on without dying.
This line is about not ejaculating and maintaining an erection.

Line 6. One with darkened mind (ie sleepiness) is devoted to the pleasure and satisfaction of the time (ie the recent orgasm) but if he changes his course even when it may be considered as completed, there will be no error.(ie Keep awake even after orgasm). This is appropriate for a sixth, post-situation line.

 

[angel]

Hi Everyone!

Well, thank you Marcos, I thought I was the only one here seeing sex symbols everywhere in the Yi. I was becoming to worry.
BTW, Do you know that the ideogram of YU is an elephant?. Suggestive. Don´t you think?
See Lise´s Yi.

Let me give you more ideas about sex issues and the YI:

a) Sex hexagrams for the yaos are definitely 11 and 12 .
QIAN bellow and KUN above ;KUN bellow, QIAN above, respectively.
Explicit enough, almost X rate.

b) Gua Ming or Hexagram name .- Hex. 44- Coupling.

c) Everywhere in the Tuan Zhuan ( Comentary on the decision), and in the Xiao Xiang (commentaries on the lines) you can find references as: "the firm and the flexible interrelate"?Use your imagination.


Last thing, I have found that Hex 16 also means ?seizing the day? and Hex. 44 also means ? sudden encounters?.Sudden encounters is the way to seizing the day for some people out there and mainly males. Anyway, Sex is everywhere, love is a different matter. Any Hexagram for love?


Happy and wet dreams!

 

[gene]

Hexagram for love? I opt for #53. However, it indicates that one must take a lot of time and not rush. I used to get this hexagram over and over again in regard to a lady I was interested in, thinking that it meant positive things, which it might have if I had understood it properly, and had not rushed in where angels fear to tread, (not you angel, but other angels, ha ha) Well, what was slow and subtle progress to me was a whirlwind to her, and it did not work out at all. I guess you have to find out what their last name is first...just kidding, maybe at least the color of her eyes...well, anyway, if I had it to do over again, and took it four times as slow, well, it still probably wouldn't be slow enough. Sigh. Reminds me of the "Drew Carey show." However, I am not sure they show that show anywhere outside of the United States.

Gene

 

[gene]

And also, hexagram 53 is followed by 54, (of course), which is the Marrying Maiden. Once in a while some poor guy actually takes it slow enough to make it work, usually because he's not really that interested at first, til he finds out he can't get anybody else... Granted, #54 isn't all that wonderful, but then most marriages aren't either. Well, some of them are, but that relates more to hexagram 32, duration. What marriages are supposed to do, and ocassionally, they actually do.

Gene

 

[Frankelmick]

Marcos,

Writing about hx 16 you said,

"The nuclear hex, the seed of the situation, is Hex 31 Wooing/ Courtship/ Influence."

The nuclear hx or mutual gua is hx 39.

This is very significant for me because I recognise that hx 16 signifies a situation that is very troubled at its core. Hx 39 represents a situation where you're completely stuck. A mountain behind you, the water in front of you. Nowhere to go.

I think hx 31 is very sexual.

A mountain inside a lake... (and fade)

Best wishes,

Mick

 

[hilary]

Glad to see everyone's imaginations so enthusiastically at work...

I do see your point about 16, Marcos, though I think you may be pushing it a little with line 2 in particular (how come you didn't mention 'not a whole day', though?). Of course the Yi is cram full of sexual symbols. Someone wrote to the Midaughter list a while back protesting that there was no sex in the Yi. I don't know which one he was reading.

53 is loving, certainly, though it's also love channelled, like a river into man-made canals - ie not only love, but also the forms and rituals we make to contain it. Thank you, Gene, for the male take on this one. I've lost count of the number of readings I've done for women where I've laid especial emphasis on 'the woman waits for the man to move' (as opposed to frightening him away). Actually I think the point is that if you're flying on as partners, that means you go at the pace of the slower partner, who thus always ends up in the driving seat. (Apologies for the chaotic metaphors, hopefully you see what I mean.)

11 and 12 - I seem to remember Diana ffarington-Hook getting quite excited about those. I would suggest 11 as a candidate for love, raw and simple, making the world go round at however many 1000 miles per hour it does. Life is transformed from the inside out, the great comes and the small (whether or not you thought it was small) goes. The inspiration of God is breathed into the earth, new worlds can be built. And you may just find yourself caught in the position of the Marrying Maiden (nuclear hexagram), having your life transformed for you whether you like it or not.

Gene, you have a rotten cynical view of marriage. It's probably humanity's best invention - certainly the best idea I ever had.

Thank you, Mick, for picking up on 39 being the actual core of 16. But 39 isn't just about being stuck, I think - looking at both the Judgement, with its contrast between NE and SW, and at the total turn-around and self-examination in the Image, surely it also has to be about finding a new direction? Something like 'if you are struggling on between a rock and a hard place, and you can't feel your feet and the path is disintegrating into a rocky mess and nobody understands you... do you suppose perhaps you could be going about this the wrong way?'

Stephen Karcher, bless him, links this not only to the struggle Yu had to control the floods, but also the way he took over the task from his father, replacing lonely heroic (and doomed) struggle with co-operation, and cutting channels as well as building dikes. It still meant long, hard, crippling work, but he did actually get somewhere.

So whenever 39 comes up as a nuclear hexagram, I look for not only the possibility of difficulty or struggle in the main hex, but also any way it might involve rethinking or 're-imagining'.

39, though, is not a particularly sexy hexagram. Let us by all means get back to 11, 16, 44, 31, 1, 2, 3, 53, 54, 34, 35, 22, 10, 24, 51...

 

[candid]

Life is sex. Yin - Yang is sex. Tantra is sex. Yi is sex. Sex, sex, sex. Is that all you people think about?

heh heh..

 

[gene]

Hi Hilary

Nah, I don't have a rotten cynical view of marriage. I would much prefer it over the single life. I can see how it sounds that way though. I did once get into a relationship even after my gut said no and I received hexagram 44 with no changing lines, I was lonely. I thought, nothing could be that bad. Well, I tell you, it was that bad and worse, and even worse than that. But I have been in good relationships too. One of them is still a very close friend, probably my closest. I think marriage is the proper way, and would like to see marriages last like hexagram 32, which comes right after 31 by the way, where there is mutual attraction. I lost a good job six months ago, right after a nice promotion, and know that it is futile to try to get into a relationship when you are not working. I am looking to write a book now, or go into business for myself. (Two business partnerships in the last six months have turned sour. One was a rip off artist, and the other just disappeared, have no idea where he went.)The corporate world is not for me anymore. Not sure how I will survive the next six months, but if I can, maybe I will start looking for a relationship again. I really do prefer marriage.

Gene

 

[louise]

Hilary left out 57, Gentle Penetration - I did get this once, re sex - it was most apt - the hexagram that is.

 

[hilary]

Gene,

Good to hear you're not a rotten cynic

I do know how lucky I am. Hexagram 32, by the way, seems to mean 'lasting in your owntao through ceaseless change.

I don't doubt you will survive the next six months! Do bring your business-related Yi consultations here if you like.

Hello Louise,
57 was implied in the ... So was anything else I left out. Of course.

Hello Candid,
No, I think about tracking software as well. (See relevant thread.) It's just that I receive 44 about it...

 

[gene]

Hilary

By "bringing my Yi related consultations here, do you mean, do readings? Ask for readings? Not sure just what you mean, but very curious. Nice to know I will survive. Actually, it is due to some very unexpected sources of income that I have been able to last this long, and a few psychic friends have agreed that the corporate world is not for me anymore. But it does leave just a little tension in the air, figuring out what I have to do. I went through a horrendous experience on my last job, and as trusting as I am in the universe, and even with a very high anger threshold, this one shook me up, and I am no where near over it.

Anyway, thanks,
Gene

 

[bfireman]

Marcos-

I have in the past interpreted H16 as "no sex", regarding asking about the possibilities in a relationship developing. At least, my interpretation was that the enthusiasm I was honestly feeling about the prospects of sex were really feelings of enthusiasm grounded in fantasy, not reality. Time proved this a correct interpreation of the situation.

Peace - B

 

[django]

Sorry , but I see the I ching as a way to freeing oneself from the "onslaught" of sexuality which seems to be pervading the planet.I can see no hexagram which actually encourages the above, on the contrary there are many which would encourage the very antithesis of the opinions on this particular thread.

Django.

 

[hilary]

Well, long live diversity of opinion is all I can say! (And let's not get too heated about this, I believe people can be even more sensitive about sexuality than about web design...)

Perhaps the individual take on sexuality or its absence in the Yi depends in part on the translation and tradition you start from?

 

[saar]

I know this is an old topic, but I was wondering, in terms of sex and relationships, just how bad IS hex 54? I know it's been told to me by others to simply mean that nothing can happen at all at that moment, or that any attempt towards a particular relationship may not end up the way one wants, but does it always have to be that way?

 

[cheiron]

Depends what sort of Sex you like

This is of the Joyous fertile lake wired to a thunderstorm? Poerful transformative change of the Yin kind. I think it made those Confucian reformers Tut tut a little. Because it was they who instituted the idea that a woman could not approach a man? before then this Hx. would be seen very differently.

For me the secret is in looking at the lines and the trigrams.

It is a particularly powerful Hx. Thunder is mid Yin and Lake or Marsh Trigram is mid Yang? two powerful forces coming together. It marks a powerful transformative female spirit? Kuei in the title of the hexagram also means something on the lines as Spirit in the Ground, or Dark (female / Yin) Spirit.

I feel that Hx. 44 is more about sex, especially as dear old line six gets a dildo and not a partner?

This hex. is something a lot greater and wider, marriage only being a limited part of it.

All the best

--Kevin

 

[cheiron]

Oops... sorry a bit of Hx. 44 crept in there... the bit about 'before Confucianreformism women could approach men.

Oh, and dark Yin for me is not the darkness of Darth Vada it is the sort of moist rich darkness you might experience in a mushroom growing shed... much happening to grow things... hidden from bright light and creative action

Cheers

--Kevin

 

[gene]

I think a lot depends on the context and the question. #54 is not always about an unhappy marriage, sure there are rocky roads in the lines, but it doesn't have to be. The main problem with the hexagram is that it indicates someone is taking a subsidiary role, and if that is all they can get it might be great. Better a costar than not be in the movie, maybe anyway. If someone asks will I marry so and so, and 54 comes up, a good chance the answer is yes. I know, I know, the commentary and the judgment aren't all that great, but hexagram 54 comes after 53. In 53 the proper time has come about, the suitor has not pushed the one he pursues faster than she is ready to accomodate, everything goes well, the 6th line of 53 is fantastic. Then on the heels of that comes 54. Finally, after all the courting, and all the waiting, he finally gets to marry her. Unfortunately, in our society, often it is the lady who has to wait, and wait, then she finally gets the ring, and six months later she is ready to ring his neck. In line four of course, the lady does not accept the suitor but prefers to wait for the one who is truly right for her. In 5 she gets married, it is just that she marries someone not on her station. That is not to be worried about too much in our society though, I personally don't think, because we don't arrange marriages, and although the judgments of the lines are often very literal, they don't have to be. Under the right circumstances, this does not have to be that bad. And ladies, you may not agree, but while in most traditional societies the man is deemed to be the initiator, it is really the lady who controls, because woe to the man who has initiated without any subtle signals from the woman that she is open to such initiation. In these days especially, even as much as a smile can cause a lot of tension between two people.

Gene

 

[gene]

Oh, and another thing. I think the original pronunciation of the word woman was woeman. Get it? Woe, man. ha ha.

Gene