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Different approach of receiving answers

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SHONNA_D

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I don't know if I should post it on Exploring divination or shared readings. Anyway, I post it here.

I would like to share 2 discussions with Yi that really have left me surprised.
I use Iching a lot of years and I know very well that you learn mostly through experience. The thing is that I make a lot of questions so as to understand my answers about a topic and yes usually I get confused. So, I am trying a new approach of receiving answers and I would like to know your thoughts.

1st:
< If I will have a relationship please answer me with the line 5 of hexagram 11>
I received hexagram 5 uc. interesting... I received the resulting hexagram and not the line 11.5
Yi asks my patience...

2nd:
< If me and my ex partner X have separated permanently answer me with the line 6 of hexagram 24> (Sure that I will receive a clear answer)
I received line 5 of hexagram 11 and my reaction..: "Are you playing with me???" :eek::brickwall::duh:

Have you ever tried asking this way? Thoughts :confused:
 

Liselle

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:hug: My guess is that Yi is indeed playing with you.

Possibly the hexagram 5 you got for the first question was Yi saying, "Just wait - just relax, and wait with expectation - and the answers about your relationship will come in due time" (where "due time" just hasn't arrived yet).

I think I see what you're trying to do with this form of question, but are you kind of saying (in, say, the second example) that if Yi gives you anything other than 24.6, that would mean you are not separating permanently? And also that 24.6 is the only possible way Yi could tell you you have separated permanently?

I agree with Moss Elk that you seem to be telling Yi what to tell you. That just seems to me not how Yi works. For that matter, I don't think it's how conversation with anyone would work. Suppose you were talking to a close friend about this, would you say something similar to her? "If you think we have separated permanently, say 'supercalifragilisticexpialidocious' and if you think we'll have a relationship, say 'mairzy doats'"?

Wouldn't you probably ask something like, "Betsy, what do you think about me and X as a couple?" and let her tell you what she thinks based on what she knows about it?

If you've asked Yi repeatedly about this, and you feel you still don't have a clear answer, it might help to:
  • go back to the very first question or two and see if you understand it differently now that some time has passed (I'm often surprised how much clearer a reading is a week or a month later - not to say that always happens)
  • look over all the questions you've asked, and see if maybe there's a better, more basic or obvious question you haven't asked
  • maybe there really, truly is no definite answer for Yi to give you right now - an analogy might be a close election in which a critical mass of people are undecided, so asking Yi would be fruitless (although Yi might still say something indicating that)
  • perhaps make yourself take a break from worrying about it for at least a couple days (a few days...a week...), and then revisiting your readings. Sometimes we ("I" - I know this from my own painful experience :() can get horribly caught up in a pit of urgency to know something, and the first step might be to forcibly yank yourself out of that spiral. Which, granted, can be very hard to do. Maybe start even smaller - tell yourself, "I won't think about this for the next 3 hours." (And of course I'm assuming it really isn't objectively urgent, and I could be wrong about that.)
  • ...or something else. It just seems as if you're really getting nowhere, and I truly doubt that coming up with inventive ways of asking will, in itself, help at all. Yi has a mind of its own, remember, and if it isn't giving you the kind of answer you want, there is a reason for that. It might be trying to communicate a different message altogether, or it might simply be that you haven't yet understood what it's told you. Interpreting can be hard. I'm sure we've all been there.

Have you read Hilary's blog post about relationship readings, re-posted here as a forum sticky?:
https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/fri...42-Blog-post-Advice-for-relationship-readings
 
N

Nevermind

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I think there are other ways in the Five Arts for something similar... I don't like it a lot, but it isn't impossible...
If you really want to use something at yes/no, you can just take Yang as yes(go ahead), Yin as no(stop).

Anything more complex then that will start to show problems...


So if you do it in the sense of "Yang for continue without obstacles" and "Yin for turn back or will face resistance" it may work well enough... Anything else will need to learn either Trigrams, how to apply the text or some other approach.
This is very limited, there is too much info that can change everything and isn't possible to apply here...

However if you want something like that I don't think coins will work very well here, you can use the "event" part of Mei Hua... So you make up the question and look something in the world around you to create feeling that there is something more there.
In Mei Hua that feeling would be made into Hexagram, but you can just make it to Yang or Yin line...
If that is related to Yang(movement etc) choose it as "go ahead", if it's Yin(static etc.) take it as future resistance ahead.

It will be very limited to how much it shows, and some situation are a lot more complex then just "continue" or "stop". But can be first step to Mei Hua, starting with creating lines, someday can move to creating more of it...

In short - nothing wrong with yes/no, as long as you don't stop there, because it will limit complex situations to very limited approaches.
 

Liselle

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In short - nothing wrong with yes/no, as long as you don't stop there, because it will limit complex situations to very limited approaches.

Agreed. I've recently (very recently) started trying to use a pendulum for certain kinds of questions. It has three motions - "yes," "no," and "need more information." (I've gotten all three as answers, too.)

Even with what seems to be a simple 3-pronged method, though, it can still get more complicated than you'd think. For example, the pendulum once said "yes" to two seemingly opposite actions. :confused: I asked Yi to help me understand that, and Yi said 59.3 > 57 - "Dispersing your self without regrets" - which I superficially took to mean I should take a view that's more expansive than just the pendulum motions. I both sort of get that, and don't, lol.
 
S

SHONNA_D

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:hug: My guess is that Yi is indeed playing with you.

Possibly the hexagram 5 you got for the first question was Yi saying, "Just wait - just relax, and wait with expectation - and the answers about your relationship will come in due time" (where "due time" just hasn't arrived yet).

I think I see what you're trying to do with this form of question, but are you kind of saying (in, say, the second example) that if Yi gives you anything other than 24.6, that would mean you are not separating permanently? And also that 24.6 is the only possible way Yi could tell you you have separated permanently?

I agree with Moss Elk that you seem to be telling Yi what to tell you. That just seems to me not how Yi works. For that matter, I don't think it's how conversation with anyone would work. Suppose you were talking to a close friend about this, would you say something similar to her? "If you think we have separated permanently, say 'supercalifragilisticexpialidocious' and if you think we'll have a relationship, say 'mairzy doats'"?

Wouldn't you probably ask something like, "Betsy, what do you think about me and X as a couple?" and let her tell you what she thinks based on what she knows about it?

If you've asked Yi repeatedly about this, and you feel you still don't have a clear answer, it might help to:
  • go back to the very first question or two and see if you understand it differently now that some time has passed (I'm often surprised how much clearer a reading is a week or a month later - not to say that always happens)
  • look over all the questions you've asked, and see if maybe there's a better, more basic or obvious question you haven't asked
  • maybe there really, truly is no definite answer for Yi to give you right now - an analogy might be a close election in which a critical mass of people are undecided, so asking Yi would be fruitless (although Yi might still say something indicating that)
  • perhaps make yourself take a break from worrying about it for at least a couple days (a few days...a week...), and then revisiting your readings. Sometimes we ("I" - I know this from my own painful experience :() can get horribly caught up in a pit of urgency to know something, and the first step might be to forcibly yank yourself out of that spiral. Which, granted, can be very hard to do. Maybe start even smaller - tell yourself, "I won't think about this for the next 3 hours." (And of course I'm assuming it really isn't objectively urgent, and I could be wrong about that.)
  • ...or something else. It just seems as if you're really getting nowhere, and I truly doubt that coming up with inventive ways of asking will, in itself, help at all. Yi has a mind of its own, remember, and if it isn't giving you the kind of answer you want, there is a reason for that. It might be trying to communicate a different message altogether, or it might simply be that you haven't yet understood what it's told you. Interpreting can be hard. I'm sure we've all been there.

Have you read Hilary's blog post about relationship readings, re-posted here as a forum sticky?:
https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/fri...42-Blog-post-Advice-for-relationship-readings


Liselle thank you for sharing your point of view.
It was just an experiment out of curiosity.
I chose line 11.5 because it shows clearly a relationship and line 24.6 because it shows clearly that there is no return no matter what you do. I decided to ask this way in case yi could make me understand correctly.
 
S

SHONNA_D

Guest
I think there are other ways in the Five Arts for something similar... I don't like it a lot, but it isn't impossible...
If you really want to use something at yes/no, you can just take Yang as yes(go ahead), Yin as no(stop).

Believe me I have tried and I do confirm that for me it doesn't work.
 

equinox

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Liselle thank you for sharing your point of view.
It was just an experiment out of curiosity.
I chose line 11.5 because it shows clearly a relationship and line 24.6 because it shows clearly that there is no return no matter what you do. I decided to ask this way in case yi could make me understand correctly.

There is no line existing that itself represents the eternal validity of a matter. The Yi is called "book of changes" for a reason. But: I often thought about how long a reading might be accurate, I remembered that I had results that were valid for years and almost couldn't believe that the I-Ching could predict a future that seems so far away. Other users confirmed, that this can be the case.
Trojina put it in my thread more elaborate than me here, that some answers are long-range and others are non-durable. https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?23887-A-question-about-time

So I think of which nature the answer is, valid for the rest of your life or for the rest of the week, has nothing to do with the particular line itself. No matter how promising or devastating the line may appear. I think, the time span of a result can be connected to the frequency you ask on the same matter. For example: if I asked many times if my boyfriend will come back one day and I received not so bad results, but then after 10 times 53.3 --> "the man goes forth and does not return. The woman carries a child but does not bring it forth. Misfortune. It furthers one to fight off robbers."
Then I wouldn't think that the Yi wants to tell me that he is never to come back. I would rather think, that the Yi is telling me: "He left, finally understand it, your attitude is starting to steal your energy, do what can be done right now and care about your life." This is a very personal intepretation of 53.3 of course.
I would only be almost sure that he will not come back if 53.3 would have been the first answer on the question. Same goes for positive results as well.
I think the safest way to be sure about the answers that the I-Ching is offering to you is to trust in the results you received when the questions were 'fresh'. And if you don't understand them, it is best to do a lot of research instead of asking again and again.
 
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N

Nevermind

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I'm not sure it's the same... I can only answer for my view here, although I think parts of this are integrated in the system(Mei Hua, this is one of the schools of Yi Jing, but they rarely use text with the lines, it's more based on elements).

In my understanding, in Mei Hua it needs feeling... So for example we walk on the street(that is one of the classical examples too) and we see old man going southwest. There is the sense that there is something more then what we see, like a message behind it etc.
With that feeling we can translate that to Qian upper, Xun lower and we make changing line based on the hour.
But this is just for this situation, because it reflects something in us, it isn't just random person walking in random direction, it's situation that seems to awaken response in us, we can translate that to hexagrams or trigrams and see what the feeling means.

Without that...
There are people of all ages going in all directions all the time... Have to discern when there is feeling that there is depth to what is shown, or it is obvious because a situation keeps repeating etc.
Then we make hexagram and it contains what we need...


But if we just make randomly at any given time, without feeling it won't really work. That way we can make endless amounts of hexagrams in each situation there won't be info we need, because process can't be taken out of the feeling at this stage. (this is only for Mei Hua, obviously)

So if we make from situations it needs something more then the crafting of the Hex or line in this case...
Even with Yang/Yin only it may not be as easy to read it as it seems... But in general if we just use the Yang/Yin part, it's very similar to what in the west people call "signs". We look for how the process is going and adjust, I don't know,this works very well for me. Although of course, much, much better if we can go in depth to at least Trigrams and see the relation there.

To show stop and go at the same time I would take that it's just too complicated to show with Yes/No...
 

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