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becalm

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I have recently been bullied at work and although I was trying to keep it low key between our supervisor and ourselves in hopes of easing the situation it’s now come to the attention of the higher authority and I’ve a meeting with them today.
As bullying is taken very seriously in our organisation I wonder if the person will lose their job.
What do I need to know about her losing her job
Hexagram 58.5.>54
It looks like either the organisation will no longer allow her to keep her position Line 5 or 58>54 her job Opening will be dropped back ti a secondary position.
 

rosada

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Wow, becalm, I've been reading your thread about this and my heart goes out to you. I was in a similar situation years ago and was patient reasonable etc. through it all until finally after several years of this absurd bullying I walked off the job but sill got unemployment - even though I wasn't fired - because the judge agreed the supervisor's behavior was outrageous (frankly, I think I could have sued). So anyway, congratulations for speaking up immediately. The reasonable quiet approach doesn't work!!!
Do you subscribe to WikiWing? I see there are many examples there for 58.5 and quite a few refer to dealing with bullies! Anyway, I don't think you can take 58.5 as saying she loses her position. Indeed, I think it maybe a warning that you need to be very conscious of how you present your case as you may be the Marrying Maiden here, the newcomer who is without position or power. But whatever, more power to you for standing up to her!
 

becalm

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Thanks for responding and also sharing your similar experience. Yes that’s my concern actually about being the newcomer and very conscious and worried about how I present myself and the case. How much to say or not say etc. I watched Judge Judy the other day haha and she said to the Plaintiff something like ‘The court is only interested in facts not anything else’ So I’m taking that advice with me today.
This is actually not dissimilar to something that happened at a previous job just over 12 months ago and I did the same as you and ran instead of standing up for myself which I realised later was unfair to myself so that’s also my motivation for speaking up. Like you I too could have taken it further.
The chain of events that’s led me to this meeting makes me feel it’s all part of my journey and to go through with it no matter what the outcome. The worst thing about it is that I keep feeling I’m doing something wrong when I know I’m within my rights to stand up for myself.
 
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becalm

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Actually she’s a relatively newcomer herself and has just finished her 3 month probationary period. She’s also going on maternity leave for 6 months mid October. I’m not sure whether they knew she was pregnant when she started or not. I was hoping I could just sit it out until she left but what she did the other day was just uncalled for so as you know enough is enough when that happens.
 

becalm

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Update: I think it maybe a warning that you need to be very conscious of how you present your case as you may be the Marrying Maiden here, the newcomer who is without position or power.
This is actually true what you said Rosada BUT it was the boss who said we have to be mindful how we go about addressing the issues with her so you are not put in the secondary position that she’s trying to create.
Unfortunately the strategy my boss tried didn't work - whilst she didn't verbally bully today her passive aggressive stance (silence) said it all.
 
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marybluesky

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I have recently been bullied at work and although I was trying to keep it low key between our supervisor and ourselves in hopes of easing the situation
Have been in similar situation. It really sucks. In my case, too, the bullying coworker was a pregnant woman. Maybe they fear losing their job too much?
What do I need to know about her losing her job
Hexagram 58.5.>54
Now that the matter is unfolded- "opened" (58)- before the authoritie she risks being striped of her work (58.5) and ending up in an undesirable situation (54).
 

becalm

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It really does suck maryblusky and part of what made me stand up about it for others who feel like they can’t for fear they’ll lose their job etc. That’s why these type of people get away with it isn’t it.!
Your interpretation also sounds right because that day she got called on it she got ‘stripped’ of her normal duties, which I took over, and pushed back into the position she’s employed which I found out is exactly the same as mine and not the authority figure she led me believe she is.
Se’s used the 3rd trimester pregnancy card to get out of some of her physical duties but those duties are no more physical than wheeling round a shopping trolley.
She’s not suffering any ill effects with her pregnancy so there’s no reason to carrying on as normal whilst taking care and being aware of what does constitute the limitations we all should take when being pregnant.
 
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marybluesky

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she got called on it she got ‘stripped’ of her normal duties, which I took over, and pushed back into the position she’s employed which I found out is exactly the same as mine and not the authority figure she led me believe she is.
My coworker, too, acted like an authority while she was the same rank as me, just more experienced.
Good news anyway.
 

becalm

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It's always good when the (real) boss is on your side!!
The boss wasn't happy when she heard about it, that's for sure and said just Diarise from now on, so after Fridays 'Silent Treatment' I'm doing that - it does make you feel empowered to do something with the information knowing that writing it down is essentially all the evidence you need.
The Silent treatment as you know is also considered a bullying tactic.
 

Trojina

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Nothing has essentially happened to her has it ? It can't because one person going to the boss and saying 'she said this' is not enough to change the employee's status or rights, certainly not in UK employment law afaik . You are in Australia I think.


I mean demoting people on the basis of what one employee said about them would be grossly unfair since anyone can allege someone else said something to them. There has to be evidence kept over a period of time which is why she told you to make a diary of it.

I think the 58.5 applies to you. I think your boss is pacifying you for now, making the right noises because in the end all s/he probably wants is a smooth running workplace not ongoing investigations. Be careful because you could well find it is not the other woman who loses her job but you. I think that is what the 58.5 may be saying.

There surely are employment laws in your work place and they aren't governed by one person saying what another person said, that doesn't even happen in kindergarten does it. So there has to be evidence with dates and times and a thorough investigation before any changes are made to her actual status, employment rights and pay before anything changes for her.

Employers do not want these kind of investigations. They cost them time and money which could be used more profitably elsewhere, they don't want to do it. Now I don't know if your boss owns the place, is the actual employer or if she just manages your department or what but the actual employer will decide in the end what happens here and they will decide in terms of cost to themselves.

At the moment all that has happened is that you have had a sympathetic hearing and been advised if you want to go further to keep a diary of the verbal assaults. That's not the end. The woman will not lose anything because another woman said she said XYZ thank goodness because if that were the case people would be being fired and demoted all over the place only on the basis of what someone else said they said or fired and demoted because what they said were called 'bullying' by someone else.


So I'd see 58.5 as advice not to have trust it's all going to go your way. You're missing something here, placing faith in that which you cannot place faith in. Be careful that you are not seen in the end as at least as much a troublemaker as her if not more so since you are the one complaining at this very early stage of your employment.


"The boss wasn't happy when she heard about it, that's for sure and said just Diarise from now on, so after Fridays 'Silent Treatment' I'm doing that - it does make you feel empowered to do something with the information knowing that writing it down is essentially all the evidence you need."


Of course it isn't all the evidence you need. It's the beginning of the evidence you need but it doesn't all end there. Surely you can see anyone could write down things about anyone in the workplace, more investigation is needed following that. If you alledge she gave you the 'silent treatment' she might say she didn't feel like talking. No reason your word should count more than hers indeed she could turn round and allege you were 'bullying' her. If you are of equal status as you said then it could be either way. Maybe she just doesn't much like you and is showing it too much but that's not a sackable offence. If that's the case they'd talk to her about it I'd think and ask her to lay off and she'd then give side of the story and they will listen to her just as much as they would listen to you. When they hear her side of the story their attitude to you may change so you can't rest in satisfaction here that she will be penalised sacked or anything else. 58.5 warns specifically against resting in satisfaction which is precisely what you are doing now. They put her in your role, switched roles but the roles are equal I think (?) and in 3rd trimester pregnancy she surely will have lighter physical duties. If she will be going away on maternity leave soon anyway then the situation will resolve itself.
 
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becalm

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Of course it isn't all the evidence you need. Well yes in essence you're right my bad way of communicating what I was trying to say.....all good whichever way it pans out is how it's meant to be.
My life is not all black and white to me, it's about learning to do things in the right way so I can move forward.
Right now I don't think I'll lose my job over this but I will learn a lot about myself.
If the bully does too, well good on her and if she's the one that keeps her job over me - well then it wasn't the place for me.
Having said all that it doesn't mean I like what's going on but it is what it is and I have to work out the best way to deal with it from my perspective to move forward in the best way I can for my life.

There's so many dynamics to situations work, love and just life generally so I also believe that the readings don't necessarily just mean one thing.
 

Trojina

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All I'm meaning to say really is be careful in how much faith you place in your boss's apparent support. That's what I see in 58.5 here. That might mean being very restrained about what you say or write down because they are bound to be asking the woman about her perspective on the situation and she might say negative things about you. Therefore don't trust their seeming support too much, be wary and strategic in your objective which is to keep your job. I think that may include holding back a fair amount, aiming to be moderate. I'm just feeling the more it looks to them like you can be thrown off course by a difficult work mate the less faith they may have in you

I don't think readings have to mean one thing either so my view is just one perspective yes. I think you may need to play more of a game. I think whatever you write about her try to make it quite emotionally low key, which you probably would anyway. All in all all I am trying to put across is I don't think you should relax too much into having faith in your boss's support as an ongong thing. They support you now but when they have spoken to her more or as time goes on and as this develops there's a dynamic I have seen plenty of times where basically the one that appears to making the most noise goes regardless of who is right or wrong because employers are concerned with productivity at the end of the day and this kind of thing reduces productivity.
 

becalm

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Thankyou and yes I agree it's how I respond and not how I react to the situation from now that will keep me in good steed re this situation. As a PTSD sufferer it does push some buttons.
Interesting you talk about productivity as I'm the one being productive and she is not, not by a long stretch which was part of my 'complaint' as well.
There are a lot more dynamics to this situation as the whole place is getting a shake up and less productive staff are being asked to move on or having their hours dropped back to casual only as their contracts come to an end.
Fortunately yes she's going on maternity leave in about 6 weeks but it's either going to be a loooong 6 weeks or it sorts itself out in that time.
We are having two workshops before she leaves one on Harassment and Bullying and one on Working together as a Team - which she hasn't been doing, so either that will help her sort her stuff out or not.
I personally don't understand why she just didn't apologise to me - then we could all move on and just let it go but taking the avenue of the silent treatment - well that's not professional is it!!
 

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