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And whom, pray tell, told you that? It sounds like a load of new-age hogwash to me.Today somebody told me: “by asking a question and getting an answer you are voluntarily willing to give up on what you are meant to receive in exchange for that which you receive.” about the I Ching. Is there any truth to that? Have you heard that before?
Sounds like a good question to me.Prufrock said:Today somebody told me: “by asking a question and getting an answer you are voluntarily willing to give up on what you are meant to receive in exchange for that which you receive.” about the I Ching. Is there any truth to that? Have you heard that before?
It really depends on what you call destiny.
In Chinese metaphysical schools, what is often call "the five arts" and Yi Jing is viewed as important part of them, there are 3 types of "luck" considered. We can relate them to the 3 lines on each trigram and to other stuff...
Heavens luck, perhaps just another way of saying, fundamental underlying principles and ordinances of heaven.Heaven Luck - You can't change that with Yi Jing. Its influences from Heaven, people that learn to do destiny readings in that parts of Asia are highly respected and often even more highly payed, but it can take years to master it. And it isn't influenced by Yi Jing.
Mans Luck, perhaps just another way of saying, that which we create ouselves, not being based on the fundamentals of nature or heaven, entirely possible to be the illusion, self lying and self deception that Neuropsuchology recognises as at the core of most of what human beings think and do.Mans Luck - That are our choices, believes and stuff like that. In general the idea is that if we support people when they deserve it, if we help when help is needed etc. that type of luck improves. While selfishness, greed and stuff like that usually decreases it. That is very influenced by Yi Jing, as our choices can change if we know more about the situations and experiences we go through. Something that divination reading can provide.
Earths luck, perhaps an aspect of nature that might be just the randomness of life, if there are no underlying principles and no reason or purpose for life, or the manifiestation of something like,that we get what we need or deserve.Earths Luck - This is the environment. Of course, someone born in a prison will have very different influences then someone born in a palace. There is more to it, however, as in that parts of Asia its viewed as connected to Feng Shui as well. And that is more then just placement, the flow of Qi in a house, or town creates the events people go through on that level. So one item(we call them "cures") in the correct place, can change everything very fast. Of course, that is also influenced by Yi Jing, as even if you have no idea about Feng Shui, you can always ask Yi Jing if you should move to other house or even country and that will change the environment you are in and its influence.
Yea, I guess... But it isn't that "objective" in there, as it can be read by many different schools and systems. The 8 characters(bazi) that we use is the most popular for the western world, but there are many more, from Purple Star, Da Liu Ren(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da_Liu_Ren) to even stuff like Mian Xiang for facereading(where they use 100 points on the face that can follow someones destiny in theory, we never got it to work in practice with the literature we had).But thanks for the clarification of the recognition of Heavens luck, making the fundamental underlying principles intrinsic to everything.
A good point and yet again confirming that coherence is an important factor. Coherence being the manifestation of fundamentals and underlying principles. No coherence then not all the same and mistakes.And each of them will have entirely different approach to reading destiny, all will use 5E, but different ways, yet as a Master of these arts said some years ago - the resulting events and general life reading in all of them have to be the same, or you have made a mistake along the way.
But they dont include 5E, because you were unable to actually demmonstrate that 5E had and foundational coherent validity.So while there seem to be many "principles" and ways to read them, even though all include 5E, Yin/Yang and other of the base components, the destiny itself is similar. Suggesting that setting the principles as the "objective" thing underlying everything can be misleading, as that is not how they view it, the principles are only used to point the master that is reading to what will happen.
But obviously you cannot have "accuracy" it there is no rationality or coherence. As you have already said above. How would you measure if something was accurate unless by measures such as coherence, rationality, the manifiestation, knowledge or understanding of underlying principles.Rationality and coherence, are not sought there, accuracy is, though.
Objectivity is not relevant here, being part of a subjective/objective complimentary duality where both parts have to be considered to get the entire picture.So somewhat the idea that the important moment is the "inspiration" that the master gets while reading whatever system they practice. The objectivity, rationality or coherence of the system doesn't play a role here, only the inspiration does, as that is what is bringing the valuable info in the forefront of the persons mind.
Accuracy of a destiny reading system is very easy to measure. You look for the events in that persons life and you figure out how much was predicted.But obviously you cannot have "accuracy" it there is no rationality or coherence. As you have already said above. How would you measure if something was accurate unless by measures such as coherence, rationality, the manifiestation, knowledge or understanding of underlying principles.
All very well, but scientific based research on such things demonstrates that we "pick" the bits that support that it is accurate and ognore the parts that dont. Just randomness will find enough times to say that almost anything works. But unless one includes ALL the data, one is just cherry picking the bits to suit. Unless one includes all the times they get it wrong that is no validation at all.Accuracy of a destiny reading system is very easy to measure. You look for the events in that persons life and you figure out how much was predicted.
For me, personally, I'm considering learning a new style if practitioner that I see, gets correctly how many marriages someone had(if any) in 5 year periods in their life and some estimate on when, based only on their 8 characters(so hour of birth and gender, mostly).
And with my favorite style of reading I have seen Masters I know, that have given even stuff like the year of first marriage, the year it broke off etc. again just by a post containing the hour of birth and gender in a forum.
So measuring accuracy in destiny reading system is very easy if the system is specific enough. If its unclear and general, then there is no measuring accuracy, as there is nothing to measure accuracy on.
It is not a "battle" it is a discussion. Of course it goes way beyond 5E, everything is connected or it wouldnt work except in our imaginations. Any limited success seems to be that everyone is ignoring any requirements for rationality and coherence.About the other stuff... I can't really comment much on it.
It seems it goes way beyond the 5E, as I can see the baffling battle for "rationality and coherence" is going on on many fronts at the same time. And with very limited success.
But it is what rational and coherent mean. It is the combination of both that excludes the limitations of either separately. It is not about the limitations of our understanding, it is about how rationality and coherence expose the limitatioins of our knowledge and understanding how it often reveals that we "believe" in things with nothing to support or validate those beliefs apart from other beliefs. But that would not be a rational or coherent thing to do. If we were rational and coherent we would have no problems discussing the details of any specifics that might be raised.Suggesting that the idea that "rational" is something we all share, is even more far away from the truth, as clearly what you view as rational doesn't seem to be shared by most members here...
Or that rational and coherent mean what they mean, that we do all share that as underlying qualities , but we are not consciously aware of that. Rationality and coherence are manifestations of a commonality that unites us all. It may not make logical sense initially but furhter eexamination of the details and the specifics, the eliminatin of contradictions and discrepancies reveals whether it really isrational and coherent or just appears to be. It is a mark, a measure , a standard. If the measure is not shared then the mark, standard or measure is not rational and coherent. But it doesnt mean that rationality and coherence have ceased to exist just because not everyone agrees.And if rational by definition is something we all share, while what you say you view is rational is something we clearly are not sharing... Then either rationality isn't universal, or what you think is rational isn't.
There is truth to it only in to the degree that what you are giving up is not knowing in exchange for knowing.Today somebody told me: “by asking a question and getting an answer you are voluntarily willing to give up on what you are meant to receive in exchange for that which you receive.” about the I Ching. Is there any truth to that? Have you heard that before?
Hi moss ElkThere is truth to it only in to the degree that what you are giving up is not knowing in exchange for knowing.
(self knowledge, external knowledge)
That was obviously not told to you by a diviner.
I think they were just playing schrodinger's cat.
To answer the title question,
Consulting I Ching helps you make better choices,
better decisions, better paths, builds better character....
So, yes it changes your destiny by improving your life,
improving your trajectory: much of life is trajectory and momentum, we are always on a path, destiny is just where we end up. There is no predetermination.
Hilary. Are you going to delete or move posts that have not even a vague connection with the thread. At least I can democrats that my posts, even if most perhaps don't understand the connections are directly connected to the thread.DaveNevermind Quantum Mechanics or Physics. Never mind Karma, Greek Mythology or The Kaballah or any other ancient texts that spout on about free will and destiny and Gods will and free will etc etc etc check out " The Adjustment Bureau" on Netflix. Much more accessible and user friendly.Of course this is only a film and may be totally wrong..... but then again who knows. GOVERNMENT HEALTH WARNING: As with divining the Yi choosing to watch this film may change your destiny.Good Luck
DaveHilary. Are you going to delete or move posts that have not even a vague connection with the thread. At least I can democrats that my posts, even if most perhaps don't understand the connections are directly connected to the thread.Dave
Already detailed the sources of more than enough information to validate that we pick what we wish and ignore the facts. In my posts. But in case you missed it, or don't know anything about how the brain works, Cordelia Fine, A mind of its own, how the brain- how your brain distorts and deceived, is a good primer and gives lots of detailed references.DaveLink some of that research then. : )
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