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does ones mood influence the outcome of a casting ??? 14.4 > 26

nykkic

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... I was wondering about one thing and asked the I Ching

'' Does my mood when it is negative(for example when I am depressed , aggressive, nervous etc)influence the outcome of my castings in any way?

.. I asked that cos I felt that my castings tended to be more negative answers when I was unbalanced, nervous, angry , depressed etc ...


the I CHING ANSWERED 14.4 > 26


quite frankly I have no idea what this answer means ... but maybe others here know .. and maybe more of you here are also interested in my question to the CHING


love to everyone
Nykki
 

Trojina

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Sometimes your answer will address your underlying mind frame rather than the exact question you put.

For example suppose you are thinking in a very worried way 'Oh Yi will I ever manage to get a job ?'

Supposing Yi answers with 47.1...it wouldn't be saying no you won't get a job it would be saying...'please change your mind frame in order to have a more positive outlook so you can get a job.



I usually recognise when Yi is addressing my frame of mind. I think one comes to recognise the more time you use Yi.

14.4 says something like 'it is not for one to dominate' so I'd take this as Yi saying to you that you don't decide how it answers. That is your moods by themselves do not dominate how Yi answers.


I'm always surprised when asking in what I think are completely extreme states of mind how clear Yi's answers come through. Moods are very big and important to us but they aren't always to Yi, that's what I find.
 
M

mirian

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.. I asked that cos I felt that my castings tended to be more negative answers when I was unbalanced, nervous, angry , depressed etc ...

Hi nykkic,

It makes me wonder that it is actually your state of mind that is having an impact on your life. So, your readings, as you call them "negative", are only reflecting the result of your emotions in your day to day affairs. Personally, I don't think that our mood influences the readings, but the readings might be talking to you, if you are in emotional turmoil, rather than addressing your question directly.
 

nykkic

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... I always felt when I was very negative or depresse dor nervous the answers never made sense ... like the natural flow between me and the ching was disturbed by the imbalances in me
 

Trojina

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No I don't think you need to worry that your imbalances stop Yi working. After all that is the very reason to consult. A perfectly perfect person wouldn't need to use Yi would they ?. It is there to help you with your imbalances
 
S

sooo

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It's best to see the doctor when symptoms are most active.

When you lose something the best answer shows where to find it.
 

moss elk

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does ones mood influence the outcome of a casting?

I am convinced that yes, sometimes yi ignores a question completely and speaks to ones inner state.
 

Liselle

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... I always felt when I was very negative or depresse dor nervous the answers never made sense

I think that is very true, but I think most of the time it has less to do with the I Ching or the readings and more to do with me and my ability to comprehend the answers.

When I am very upset, it's difficult for anything to get through. Sometimes if I can manage to just stop and come back to it later when I'm feeling better, it's much more clear. This is not easy - often I'm upset because I have a problem I don't know what to do about, and that's why I'm asking questions in the first place.

As Trojina pointed out with the 47.1 example, if you get off on the wrong track (thinking in that case that 47.1 actually meant you won't ever get a job), it's very difficult to recognize that and get back on the right track.

Mostly I don't know what to do about all this. Trying to just STOP and let a bit of time go by can help, but it's hard to do. Sometimes it helps to pretend the reading is someone else's and not my own. If I can manage to separate myself from the reading a little bit, be more objective, I sometimes understand it better.

I've found that Yi will sometimes try to help, and sometimes something Yi says will ring a bell, and I'll be able to recognize that oh, wait, I've gone wrong somewhere. But that doesn't always happen.

Yi will sometimes even try to TELL me to take a break, with hexagram 33 ("withdraw") or something like that. Problem is that when I'm upset, that good advice doesn't get through, either, similar to how telling someone who's upset to "calm down" or "it will be okay" usually doesn't work. (Gee, if merely saying "calm down" actually calmed people down, we'd all be calm all the time, right? :rolleyes:)

It's a problem. I don't know the solution.
 
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sooo

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... I always felt when I was very negative or depresse dor nervous the answers never made sense ... like the natural flow between me and the ching was disturbed by the imbalances in me

That's likely because the answer you receive is not in harmony with your key, in which case you're required to change key to the tune the Yi sings (shown in the answer). Funnier yet, to me, is when I feel dandy and then receive a major buzz kill answer. But the same is true. To understand Yi's answer I must be in tune with it. We can be disturbed for the wrong reason, and the Yi points to the way, or we can be satisfied for the wrong reason or be out of tune with the time, or be ignorant of something which requires our attention, and Yi will also point to the way to be in touch, be in tune.

1963_Fender_Stratocaster_headstock_front-478x648.jpg
 

nykkic

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what I mean is: ..when I ask the CHING and I am in an aggravted mood... aggressive or unconcentrated then it doesnt seem to work... normally the answers from the Ching always make sense and make me think AAAHJ YES TRUE ... but not when I am casting the coins in an aggravted mood aggressive or unconcentrated
 

Liselle

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Maybe try something as an experiment? When this happens, try marking those readings, and then come back to them after some time has passed - a day, a week, a month, however long you need in order to feel that the emotional part of the situation is gone. Then look at the readings again, and see if they make any more sense to you.

I have had it happen both ways. Often I end up being able to understand the readings better when I'm more objective about them. Sometimes I still don't know what they meant.

You also have to be alert for reasons why your readings aren't making sense that have nothing to do with your mood (even if you are coincidentally upset when you're casting them). For example, sometimes Yi simply changes the subject. I can think of two really big events in my life that Yi tried to warn me about, but I did not get the message AT ALL because I didn't catch that Yi had changed the subject. All I knew was that the readings made no sense with respect to the questions I was asking. I may or may not have been upset when I cast the readings, but the reason I didn't understand them had nothing to do with my mood. So it would be false, in those cases, to say that my mood prevented me from understanding.
 
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sooo

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what I mean is: ..when I ask the CHING and I am in an aggravted mood... aggressive or unconcentrated then it doesnt seem to work... normally the answers from the Ching always make sense and make me think AAAHJ YES TRUE ... but not when I am casting the coins in an aggravted mood aggressive or unconcentrated

What I mean is: the answer intends to change that aggressive or out of tune mindset; just as before playing a song on your instrument (meaning you), you need to tune up, change that dissonance within yourself. The word changes in Book of Changes refers to you, not to the Ching. That's what those answers typically speak to, before speaking to your question. If you keep that old aggravated mindset, of course Yi's answer will not be clear to you. There must first be that "Ah Ha, I'm out of tune" moment. Many times just tuning ourselves up will allow us to see the answer to our original question without even requiring an answer from the Yi.

Or, you can choose to remain frustrated and confused. There's no arm twisting to change, only well tuned answers.
 

Liselle

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Sooo, I think I sort of understand what you mean, but how do you do that? How do you "tune yourself up"?

I can think of some things which might help, like letting some time go by, or trying to distract yourself by doing some other activity, trying to take your mind off whatever has you upset.

However, I often find that doesn't work as long as the problem in my life which I'm upset about still exists. When the problem is fixed, then I'm not upset anymore.

Do you have any suggestions for how to do this?

Also, there might be a distinction between being upset about your actual problem, and being upset because you don't understand the I Ching reading you did about the problem. Those can feed on each other, but I don't think they're the same issue, and might require different ways of handling it.

Everyone is different, but when I'm frustrated, confused, and upset, it certainly doesn't feel like a "choice" to me. If it was a choice, I would never choose it, since it is very unpleasant. I do understand that being upset and frustrated is usually not productive, though.

(Well, wait. If you think about it another way, negative emotions might be productive and might exist for a reason, similar to physical pain - they tell us that something is wrong and must be attended to. That may not be what you meant, though?)
 
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sooo

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By being influenced, being impressionable, changeable, mutable. 31.5 refers to this. Kind of funny to refer to it as a pain in the neck because, as you say, "I would never choose it, since it is very unpleasant." Wilhelm comments: "It is true that if we cannot be influenced ourselves, we cannot influence the outside world."

Sometimes the change, the self-tuning happens effortlessly without even noticing the shift in our mood, disposition, our way of seeing things. Other times we have our emotional heels dug in and are inert, unchangeable. At those times I find it better to close the book and take a walk, do something else to take our mind off whatever it is that has us out of tune, creating that dissonance. But sometimes when we listen Yi's words and images, let them inside and apply them to ourselves, we can change. Then our original question may be given our answer because we are now in a proper state to receive it.

leotolstoy105644.jpg
 
S

sooo

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'' Does my mood when it is negative(for example when I am depressed , aggressive, nervous etc)influence the outcome of my castings in any way?

Just look an Nykki's answer.

the I CHING ANSWERED 14.4 > 26

Doesn't this answer her question well? "It is a dangerous position. He must look neither to the right nor to the left, and must shun envy and the temptation to vie with others." Others include the Yi itself, and with oneself as well.
 

Liselle

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Thanks, Sooo.

Wilhelm also says (about 31.5), "The back of the neck is the most rigid part of the body." So, maybe try to be less rigid and inflexible? Wilhelm seems to be advocating remaining firm, rather than being flexible, but that's commentary, and it won't apply to every situation. Yi uses its own text in many different ways.

Yes, I can see how 14.4 fits here.

I still think this is much easier said than done. Does telling an upset person to calm down ever work? You and I have both mentioned taking a break and doing something else for a while. That could take countless forms: taking a walk, playing music you like, watching something on television, having a sip of wine, doing a puzzle or playing a game of Solitaire, fixing yourself a yummy snack, doing some mindless chore...

But every one of those things requires some ability to break your mood FIRST, if only enough to change direction to a different activity. That inflection point seems like the most difficult part.
 
S

sooo

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A stiff neck implies being uptight. I don't think line 5 suggests giving one but rather dealing with one, as with the other lines.

Taking a walk, washing dishes, feeding horses etc. takes the mind off those discordant things, but there again, if one is determined to keep their neck in a vise, nothing can change it, not even an accurate IC reading, nor anyone's influence, i.e. 21.6.

And text, anyone's text, is still an interpretation, otherwise they'd all be the same.
 

Liselle

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Well, I don't think Wilhelm was thinking about it as a stiff neck, per se, although it could certainly mean that in readings.

Wilhelm said:

"The back of the neck is the most rigid part of the body. When the influence
shows itself there, the will remains firm and the influence does not lead to
confusion. Hence remorse does not enter into consideration here. What
takes place in the depths of one's being, in the unconscious mind. It is true
that if we cannot be influenced ourselves, we cannot influence the outside
world."​

He seems to be advocating keeping a firm will, as opposed to vacillating and being confused.

But that's just one angle on it. All the I Ching itself says, basically, is that influence is felt in the neck (or back, or shoulders, or some combination, depending on which translation you're reading). Whether the influence is good (remaining firm) or not good (being overly rigid) would depend on the situation, probably. The text itself could probably go either way, do you think? Neutral?

(I think I'm trying to remind myself that there are many ways in which a particular author's commentary - and sometimes even the translation, as you point out - could be wrong for a particular reading. Not that I didn't know that already, but it's an easy trap to fall into.)
 
S

sooo

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Hi Lisa,

Yes, I'm familiar with the rest of Wilhelm's 31.5 commentary, and I was paraphrasing the 'pain in the neck' idea. But they are not different really. Line 1, the influence is in the big toe; symbolic of the urge but not yet moving. Line 2, influence in the calves; symbolic of more serious consideration of movement. Line 3, influence in the thighs; the power (actually of the heart) determining movement, the rest having no choice but to go along with it. Line 4, influence of and in the mind, agitation induces ineffective movement, influence is scattered. Line 5, influence in the shoulders and neck; influenced by ones tension. Line 6, influenced or influencing by talking, or being talked at - blah, blah, blah.

They all can apply to influencing and being influenced or affected.

My reference to 31.5 was only likening the kind on tension Nykki was alluding to. It changes to 62, which influences reduction or relaxation of the stress she was speaking of.
 
S

svenrus

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... I was wondering about one thing and asked the I Ching

'' Does my mood when it is negative(for example when I am depressed , aggressive, nervous etc)influence the outcome of my castings in any way?

It reminds me of a question asked some while ago; whether one getting to know an answer that the I gave would change the outcome of the situation. That, if one haven't got the answer the situation would have turned out otherwise...
A tricky question.
In my opinion the I gives response to our situation whether bad mooded, happy... On where we are situated, physically as well as psychically. And I think that this off course will make influence on both our casting and the way we read it. The specific answer (fourth line) to You I find cryptic: "Burn the rainmaker. No blame" (K.&R. Huang), "No sacrifice at the ancestral temple gate. No misfortune." (R. Rutt), "[It is not his] fullness; there is no trouble." (Shaughnessy, Mawangdui texts), "Do NOT be OVERBEARING. NO HARM." (G.C. Richter). Honestly, to find a direct answer to Your query in those "close to" ancient versions isn't obvious. But reading between the lines my personal impression is that You've dived too deep into it.... Or: it's not that important for You to be worried about.
Btw, nice opportunity for me to learn english :rolleyes:
 

mythos

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Well 14.4 talks about not claiming to have superiority over the situation so, I'd say the answer is no.

Besides, I've noticed the Yi teaches me something very useful. I ask a question and the question catches me.

Example: "What does M think of my communication?" "16.1" I thought I was being truthful but Yi reminds me that in another person's view, I just got a little too full of believing my own truth.

It's up to me to see the value or usefulness of my communication (like if I ask what the value of my communication with M was the answer is 61 unchanging)

The Yi can remind me that my view is only 1 in a world of 7 billion but my view is important for self value.

Your mood has only as much to do with the Yi's answers as it does on the world.

But, if you ask, "should I do x right now" the Yi serves a reminder that the question you ask and the action you subsequently take are both affected by mood. So eliminate the mood and see if the question is still relevant.
 
S

sooo

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I think the situation becomes more complex (and sometimes more frustrating) when we don't or can't recognize our "out of tuneness". If we know we are upset, angry, etc, we can at least switch from applying it directly to our question and instead apply it to our state of mind or emotions. But, for example, if we receive an admonition of sorts, and don't know how or where to apply it, or what it has to do with anything, that can get confusing and frustrating.
 

ginnie

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Well, when we're in an aggravated mood we already think we know all the answers, don't we.

Best bet is to do a meditation before casting the I Ching. This settles the mind and makes us more receptive to the responses. For years I only cast the I Ching after doing a meditation. I think you are correct to notice that the results are just not the same when one casts in an agitated state of mind!
 

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