Does the ICHING help you do evil?

[pakua]

Well... is there evil or not?

MAybe it's just creation and destruction, cycle after cycle

if you accidentally step on an ant hill, is that evil?

what about deliberately stepping on one... as a child... as an adult... as an adult whose mind is not aware

 

[Sparhawk]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

if you accidentally step on an ant hill, is that evil? <!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

I remember falling on my butt on a red ants anthill, in shorts, as a child. Believe me, my private parts still think of it as most evil!! Bad, bad, evil ants!!!

L

 

[jerryd]

Pakua;
yes there is evil as there is good. We cannot even know one without the other. All we know today is compariative dualities.

Crusing through this media tangle called cyber space you will see a lot of this there are so many degrees of good and evil it is difficult to pick which is which.

How much is to much? Who is deciding good and evil? Why do I believe differently than you? Geez,to some there are aliens, and a belief in dinasours are an attempt at a conspiracy to prove evolution happened? So many choices and ways to believe, Pick one and hold fast but never say never!

 

[kevin]

Daoism proposes that everything is moved in cycles.

Fields are rotted in the winter and the clean ground is fit for seedlings in spring.

Can someone define Evil for me?

--Kevin

 

[jerryd]

For a man Kevin " evil is as evil does "

 

[candid]

Kevin, evil is a human invention. Before humans it was called day and night, sun and moon. All things existed with peace and violence. One was as inevitable as the other.

Then came humans. Cane slew Abel, and thus was evil born.

 

[kevin]

No friend that is tautological.

Let us really get down to what it is.

A definition of some kind.

--Kevin

 

[kevin]

Crossed post - Replying to Jerryd

 

[candid]

Evil is man's penchant to steal for himself what is another's. It could be possessions or a life. Or a wife?

Within this context the 10 commandments really do make good sense. Since we need to have written laws, they are written; metaphorically, at least, by the hand of God. According to the verses, God preferred to write his laws upon the heart of man, but man's hearts were found to be as stone. So on stone did God write them.

Thing is, evil, in the eyes of man, is highly subjective. Each points to the other accusingly as being evil.

Tao De Ching says something like: 'think good and evil is born.' In that context, good is as evil as evil. Or evil is as good as good.

Interesting that Jesus is said to say: 'Why thou callest me good?'

 

[martin]

Defining 'evil' is way too difficult.
Better start with something easier. Try to define 'chair', for instance.

Can you do that? I don't think so.

 

[kevin]

Actually defining evil is not so difficult - if you do not avoid it by saying chair.

--Kevin

 

[martin]

LOL. Good one.

 

[kevin]

You are a good sport.

--K

 

[RindaR]

Has anyone got a cogent response from Yi when they asked what evil was? It seemed to blow me off.... ...but then I have a lot of trouble believing in it.

Rinda

 

[kevin]

Please - Will you share your reading Rinda?

--Kevin

 

[martin]

The tendency is to ask "What is a chair?"; but I ask how the word "chair" is used.

(Wittgenstein, Lectures 1932 - 1935)

Helpful?

 

[jerryd]

Kevin, tautological, may be not so inapproperate, as evil does not exist in any other realm except man in his construction of the world. If you look at a defination in a dictionary it will tell us that evil is many things which only man is the judge of, there are many which we all will agree to but many which there will be disagreement about when each one is specifically named. It is the nameing of an evil thing which is in question here not evil it self.
But you make a good point.

 

[kevin]

No link there Martin

So not sure...

I propose that evil - were it to exist, is a fundamental concept... Not one I have found in Daoist thought though... which is perhaps why it is important here.

Let's stay with this one and together, all of us, explore it...

--Kevin

 

[RindaR]

oh dear, it really did not (and still does not) make any sense to me, but here goes:

I tried to center myself, realized that I really didn't believe in evil per se, (growth needs, confusion, unhappiness, limitations, disease, pain, death, etc, yes, but not in "evil"...)

So I tried to imagine evil and it came out as a sort of dark cloud.

Then I "tossed" (clicked on the Clarity "tossing place") and got 11.5 >5. I think. It was so far away from meaning anything to me that I didn't write it down, but I'm pretty sure that's what it was.

Mebbe someone else will find some meaning in it?

Rinda

 

[jerryd]

Candid;
Before man there was tonhing to refer back or forward to was there? Not trying to be pickey but if you know sometning you would like to tell me I would like to learn more. I believe you and I think a lot alike so please do not think I am just being obtuse.

 

[kevin]

A proposal Jerryd...

'Evil does not exist outside Judaic thought?'

That is not to say it does not exist... let us find it if it is there...

--Kevin

 

[martin]

I asked the Yi just now what evil is, Rinda. The Yi answered 60.1 > 29.

Have to let that sink in. But it is interesting what LiSe says about 60.1:
"Give your actions your own size and do not exceed that. Do not answer to demands or accept values, words, situations or people which do not agree with your own nature."

Evil = deviating from ones nature?

Makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[jerryd]

Candid; the word is "NOTHING" which my dyslectic personality has trouble with not to mention my typing,,,LOL

 

[RindaR]

Hmmm... Martin, that is very helpful.

If I don't believe in Evil, perhaps Yi was telling me what Goodness is, and in that context - the context of my own world-view - my reading does make sense. This reading is a picture of what I find to be Good. How can I believe in goodness without believing in evil? I don't know the answer to that.

Rinda

 

[RindaR]

I'll be away for the weekend, and I'm looking forward to following the thoughts generated in this thread when I get back!

Rinda

 

[jerryd]

Kevin;

you say " evil does not exist outside Judiac thought?" then you say or quote, that is not to say it does not exist, let us find it there.

I do not think I really understand where els to look save in our own minds, through experience and analogies to what we believe to be less than evil as I (we) think about it.

 

[kevin]

Rinda

I too asked the same question - and the resultant Hx was 55

I think it may refer to this thread?

A thought

--Kevin

 

[martin]

I don't believe in evil either, not as an independent force that is.
Evil is only the absence of good, like darkness is only the absence of light.

In human terms: ignorance.
"Forgive them. They don't know."

 

[kevin]

Need to sleep - not ignoring - back tomorrow - this is important for me.

--Kevin

 

[jerryd]

It appears again the majority evil is something which is not good, and good and evil are just relative terms for disagreement till we establish a catagory or word to actually put these labels on. Such as, evil dooers, or for lack of a better word "alcohol" is evil ect.