Does the type of question predict the depth of the answer?

[arabella]

I've been recommended to bring this over from the shared readings to discuss under a new heading. This is the question I'd posed under the "Neverending Thread and Continuing Saga" discussion -- and it was suggested it is more appropriately looked at here:

So I've been thinking about this on the way home. Can it be, if you ask a "yes" "no" question you DO in fact get a point blank answer; whereas, if you ask a "aspect of" or "probability" or "possibility" or "potential of" kind of question you get all the background; a whole variety of additional information? For instance, I have the first answer: yes. It's happened and that's a definite score for Willow Fox's approach to enquiry.

Now I also have this reading with changing lines, a whole different direction if I'm not mistaken to a similar, but differently worded enquiry.

I mean, IChing, as an "oracle" must have many aspects. Perhaps some quite literal, others with all sorts of background material. On the face of it, this is what was demonstrated when I asked similar question in different ways. What do you think?

Hilary offered a treatise on this question on the NTACS thread. Perhaps it should be moved here as well................and then others add as they see fit.

Here's what Hilary said:

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I'd suggest just asking, 'What will happen with this?' rather than 'Will x happen?' because a) it's simpler and b) it's how you are going to have to read the answer anyway. 'Gathering' and 'Joyful Communication' do not mean 'yes', they mean 'gathering' and 'joyful communication' - in this case, just as Willowfox said, meeting for a chat. And there's no relating hexagram because, as you said,

Quote:
at the moment, this is all I really want to know. There's no deeper consideration going on, to be honest.

- you haven't taken any position on where you might want to take this.

Anyway, I'd much rather work with 'what will happen?' than 'what's the likelihood of x happening?' On the understanding, of course, that you're asking about what will probably happen and these things are not set in stone. But really, wouldn't you rather interpret a description of events than a description of a likelihood?

As for interpreting 52.3.6... impossible to say for sure what Yi is answering. Partly because I have no idea how Yi might portray a probability, mostly because it had already answered on this, and isn't necessarily going to repeat itself. FWIW, this reading sounds as if it might be a comment on your inner state, trying to stay on guard (solid and non-reactive as the mountain), but with some danger (line 3) that this could mean stifling your natural response.

Willowfox, it's good to hear you talking a bit about your approach. Only thing I would add is that thinking more about the question asked tends to make life simpler (at least, that's the objective), and spending longer contemplating a reading does not diminish the mystery. [END OF HILARY QUOTE]

Any other opinions on this?

 

[arabella]

Being thorough with tranferring this discussion to a new area, here's the reply I'd given to what Hilary said. From there, the table is open for your comments please:

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Ok Hilary, I'm with you. You're saying it's important to ask a question that leaves room for the IChing to speak openly, but don't go so wide as probabilities and likelihoods, because the answer is so secondary as to be meaningless. Also, the querent will limit what the answer can be by asking "will this happen" rather than "what will happen." Which presents problems like, if you ask will this happen? and the IChing says, "no it won't" you're dead in the water and back to the drawing board. If you ask, "WHAT will happen," you're definitely going to get an answer that matters to you. I may be catching on here.

Back in the days when dinosaurs roamed the earth and I had first heard about the IChing and was trying to learn to ask questions at all, SOMEWHERE I got the information that you can't ask questions that beg "yes" or "no" answers and you HAD to ask questions that were peripheral to the situation. Like, "what is the possibility" "what is the potential" "what is the likelihood" or "please tell me the aspect for." So, basically, you are defunking all of this. WOW. Square ONE.

 

[meng]

Howdy Arabella,

"Does the type of question predict the depth of the answer?"

For me, at least it's a clear starting point. I always feel the Yi has the upper hand and can say or do whatever "it" chooses to, including ignore my question or just plain mess with my head. (It's as though part of me is doing it to myself.) That's why sheer humility in approaching it, allowing it to guide, rather than trying to force it my way, works best for me. It's also what can activate creative ideas to suddenly surface about the thing I asked, or it may suddenly alter my outlook, which alters my mood, which alters the way I interact with people, which alters my destiny. In light of all that, how important was my specific question? see what I mean? Maybe a direct answer to your original question is exactly what Yi says, but maybe it says you should be thinking about this instead.

The Yijing is a thinkers oracle. An answer may say one single thing, or it may lead to a string of thought processes, questions and answers that reshapes someone's life. Whether the Yijing shapes it for the better, or not, I candidly sometimes question . For every mystery it solves, it creates two.

 

[arabella]

So are you saying, perhaps, the IChing reacts the way the individual is reacting? Is is a mirror?

 

[lucia]

Back in the days when dinosaurs roamed the earth and I had first heard about the IChing and was trying to learn to ask questions at all, SOMEWHERE I got the information that you can't ask questions that beg "yes" or "no" answers and you HAD to ask questions that were peripheral to the situation. Like, "what is the possibility" "what is the potential" "what is the likelihood" or "please tell me the aspect for." So, basically, you are defunking all of this. WOW. Square ONE.

I don't know about dinosaurs but I do know that I suggested in one of your threads that Yes/No questions were problematic and that perhaps it would help you to read what Hilary has to say about questions and recall not getting a very good reaction..............

I would never say what is right or wrong myself, that is lame thinking, as is suggesting one person has a "method" which is better than someone elses..............

Yes/no questions are problematic most of the time because how can you know which side of the equation your answer is landing on? I think Hilary offers some very wise advice about Qs but I recall getting told you were way beyond that basic level. Asking what you need to know or understand about an issue is not "peripheral" - it is pretty fundamental. But it doesn't matter really, you use the tools you need for the job in hand.

It is, imho, most of the time about the clarity of the question if you want a clear answer. It isn't about rules (like speaking spanish???) or right and wrong, it is about thinking clearly about what it is you need to know and how to ask questions that get you there. It is often a good idea to start wide and then focus in but that is not a "rule" it is about using your intelligence relative to the situation you are enquiring about. But as I said Hilary has a good section on the site devoted to this issue.

Jesed offered a set of Q's for relationships a long while back which many people have adopted also. They are useful at the right time. And yes I think frame of mind is often relevant but once again not always. One builds up one's relationship with the ching - it is personal and as Meng says that in itself can have effects that knock on.

Once again, good to start simple and develop it over time. That is why journals are so useful.

Lucia

 

[peter2610]

Hi Arabella,
Sorry to butt in but yes, I think the I Ching mirrors or 'echoes' the meaning of our situation, though from a universal, holistic perspective. There's a complementary relationship between our conscious thoughts and the environment we create. The I Ching seeks to guide this process as far as possible to be in keeping with universal harmony and our personal growth. This often means that the answers we receive are not the answers we want - from the point of view of our personal ego. Meng is quite right when he describes the best approach to be one of humility and thoughtful acceptance.
Insofar as the I Ching will usually indicate a potential change as being in harmony or not with the universal process, we have our 'yes' or 'no' answers. The 'depth' or breadth of the answer is, from my own experience, dictated more by the situation rather than by the question itself. The I Ching goes directly to the essence. Try creating an answer without actually asking a question - it still works but requires more thought!
Hope this helps. Peter

 

[arabella]

Lucia, I suppose you can say I'm in the "learn by doing" mode. IChing seems to put up with me so far, so I hope you can. The thing about "Spanish" was a joke because suddenly everybody seemed to be joking in Spanish and so I did too. I think in the forum people are in all different places and mostly floundering around, figuring things out -- so please don't take anything you hear very personally. I'm sure it's not directed that way, nor am I intending that. But I'm trying diferent things and see what I've created. That's the purpose of this new thread, really, to say "can you do it?" IF you do it, what will happen? When you say, "new kid on the block" I suppose I am the quintessence of that, so hoping I don't bash holes in any established order or offend someone, but even with a map, I'll probably only find some things when I find them. Hilary has kindly commented on a casting I threw out there, tried a few different ways. And in the situation, when she gave examples, the lights went on. I'm probably just that stupid to be honest. I literally had to "see the light."

But I'm also curious, because SO many people ask varied dimensions of questions, beggging the YES or NO answer, and multitudes in other directions. And now I'm asking, and I suppose it's kind of obvious, will a different question about the same thing evoke a different QUALITY answer. And the responses are rolling in here.

 

[arabella]

[ The 'depth' or breadth of the answer is, from my own experience, dictated more by the situation rather than by the question itself. The I Ching goes directly to the essence. Try creating an answer without actually asking a question - it still works but requires more thought!
Hope this helps. Peter[/QUOTE]

Really glad you "butted in." I am intrigued. How exactly do you create an answer without actually asking a question? What do you do and how do you refer that process through the IChing. Sounds very "ZEN."

 

[meng]

So are you saying, perhaps, the IChing reacts the way the individual is reacting? Is is a mirror?

It could, and sometimes does, mirror ourselves. Sometimes I get the feeling it is mocking me, which is really a part of me which is mocking me. But how it interacts isn't something I've ever been able to reliably predict. It's like being surprised in a dream: how is that possible to surprise yourself? I think it is well spoken of in hex 25.

 

[arabella]

Yes, I truly get the "mocking" response. Hexagram 4 seeming to be the ultimate edition of that. Maybe we bury what we know about ourselves under so many wishes, dreams, avoidance, egotism, we have to be reminded: "HEY, I know YOU!" The other Hexagram that obviously shocks is 51. I have the sense of somebody wanting to SHAKE me. If you want answers, you are shaken. The ability to surprise yourself is maybe in the humility people keep mentioning. It is key, isn't it? You have to get so low and quiet to hear anything like truth. Even in little things. I sometimes think of the difference of rural China, the quietude and pace of life, the social guidance already in place, when the IChing evolved. It is a challenge to enact wisdom from such a time. When we question, do we need to build that atmosphere somewhere within to hear those echoes? I may be asking vapid questions here but, even so, I have to go through layers of myself to find them in all the din around me. In simpler times, questions must have been quite simple and the mirror image more true. Now?

 

[arabella]

Also, Meng, dream is an interesting analogy since it is one thing we simply don't control. Dreams arise from the subconscious and if we can remember any of what we've seen, putting meaning to the faces and symbols you remember may be quite clear or nearly impossible. Unprredictable, as you say.

With all these variables though, we still are attracted to the IChing. Why?

 

[meng]

With all these variables though, we still are attracted to the IChing. Why?

Why not ask why attraction itself exists? and find the answer(s), or at least some good clues, in the Yi . 31 is applicable. Though it doesn't really answer why, it does affirm what it's made of. So could 11, 32 or 37. They're all connected, with the potential of everything leading to everything else. Without context I imagine it's just a spinning ball (or wave), but add specific context and time, and what we're seeking is in that Yi image given.

Why? There's different opinions and ideas on that, from synchronicity to ethereal beings to finding meaning in any answer we receive. Maybe the why that can be named isn't the why.

 

[arabella]

Well Meng, exciting experiment, but you're not going to believe the outcome. I asked the question:
"Why are we seekers attracted to the IChing?" And the response was Hexagram 18, judgement.

So I've pulled this quotation from Hilary's commentary as a starting place to think about this reply:

When you receive Hexagram 18, it is time to examine those old, old patterns at last, to seek out their source and give it due honour and attention. When you understand where your experience comes from, you can restore the creative flow and make a genuinely new beginning. You will need to commit yourself to the journey and take the risk of crossing the great river into unknown territory. And you will need to pay careful attention to the process. Before ‘seed day’, which marks the beginning of a new cycle of time, you’ll need to identify the source of the corruption and prepare for change. Afterwards, you need to pay attention to the needs of the new growth. Each of these phases has only a modest duration; you’re invited to attend and examine, but not to dwell on this change for a lifetime.

So I have this much of a "WHY" to begin with. I like the wave and spinning ball ideas. I suppose there's no way for the IChing to express that however.

 

[meng]

18, great answer. I think the key word in your question that brings 18 to the front is "Why are we seekers attracted to the IChing?" I think you intended the word seeker to mean someone seeking to better their understanding and themselves, not someone who just wants to be told what to do. 18 takes effort and work, something takers aren't willing to give.

 

[fkegan]

"Why are we seekers attracted to the IChing?" And the response was Hexagram 18, judgment.

Hi Arbella,

In general with a single hexagram, it is fruitful to read and consider all the lines as part of the overall process being described. The theme that emerges from the lines taken all together is that much of what currently comes to our attention as spoiled has to do with our family dynamics and our interaction with our mother and father.

If it is a problem that father has failed to achieved his dreams, then you may win honor and appreciation by working to remedy that difficulty.That is what Abraham in Genesis did. His father wanted to move his family from Ur to Canaan the great West of opportunity in those times, but he only made it as far as Haran. His boy at age 75 managed to fulfill the dream.

Others are problems of the mother not giving proper support, direction and discipline which needs to be corrected firmly but gently in a slow and deliberate process. Others are problems of setting your sights too low or too immediate instead of seeing the great visions in the Heavens overhead and as the ad agency motto goes--Reach for the Stars, at least you won't end up with a handful of mud.

The requirement for benefiting from Divination is to be questioning yourself and looking in the spiritual mirror to correct your own faults. Then the Oracle can offer sage counsel and useful advice.

If you see the Oracle as Out there somewhere telling you stuff without any commitment upon your part to do anything but sit on the couch choosing your next amusement then all you get is one more channel on your remote...

Frank

 

[arabella]

Yes, definitely Meng, this is what I had in mind in casting that "seekers" are looking for new ways to behave, act, solve problems, grow, change themselves to a more ideal form. By the way, I like your kokopelli symbol. I lived in the desert southwest of the USA for a long time, but long ago, and seeing that makes me feel far away and homesick.

Frank, if I understand correctly what you are saying, then your reading of this casting is what I have gathered in reading the IChing more as literature, [for itself rather than as a divining tool], which seemed to demonstrate the basis of Chinese social structure woven through its pages, keeping the dimensions of interaction and understanding in place. And I would imagine a son taking seriously the unfinished task and his father's honour, or the daughter following dutifully where she was expected to marry or perform her role as a woman. Since we aren't oriented that way anymore, probably not even if we are Chinese, what is the equivalent today, do you think, that keeps the IChing relevant?

 

[Trojina]

it could equally be many of those who consult the i ching are seeking to get permission to act, get approval to act or not and so on because of self doubt or discomfort on acting on own wishes.

 

[fkegan]

Does the I Ching need a make over to be relevant to feminists?

Yes, definitely Meng, this is what I had in mind in casting that "seekers" are looking for new ways to behave, act, solve problems, grow, change themselves to a more ideal form. By the way, I like your kokopelli symbol. I lived in the desert southwest of the USA for a long time, but long ago, and seeing that makes me feel far away and homesick.

Frank, if I understand correctly what you are saying, then your reading of this casting is what I have gathered in reading the IChing more as literature, [for itself rather than as a divining tool], which seemed to demonstrate the basis of Chinese social structure woven through its pages, keeping the dimensions of interaction and understanding in place. And I would imagine a son taking seriously the unfinished task and his father's honour, or the daughter following dutifully where she was expected to marry or perform her role as a woman. Since we aren't oriented that way anymore, probably not even if we are Chinese, what is the equivalent today, do you think, that keeps the IChing relevant?

Hi Arabella,

No, I don't think you understood me at all. The family dynamics of birth order are universal and eternal. If we are operating in contemporary terms than we just drop the limitations associated to gender. Thus any child can take up the unfinished business of either parent. As my mother did when her mother was prevented from going to school by an unexpected pregnancy. My mother completed that family dream becoming a distinguished law student and then an internationally renown attorney.

Similarly, the problems of family dynamics and the interactions of parents and children is not limited by gender nor eliminated by rejecting gender roles. In terms of the I Ching, it appears only the eldest daughter was expected to marry in the best interests of the family status. If you check hex 54 you find that the youngest daughter did not have such family expectations, even in ancient China.

Similarly hex 44 is not generally taken in terms of its trigrams of the Father and his eldest daughter; rather as a single open Yin line appearing behind 5 Yang lines and interfering with their forward progress by her attractiveness.

I would only note, in answer to your final question: How I would construct a new image to keep the Yi relevant to the modern woman ( a notion discussed by the Spanish sociologist Jose Ortega in the 1920's) I can only answer with the lines from John Donne about "For whom the bell tolls". It isn't anyone else, only YOU that is the relevant person for I Ching divination. Which of course is what makes any Divination powerful and important.

I also spent time some years ago in the SW US desert in Palm Desert, CA. Now I live in the Mojave Desert of NV. With the intense El Nino storms of this winter, the pollen is intense and much easier to be nostalgic in memory than in the actual current reality of universal allergy problems. Perhaps the same is true for the I Ching and its notions of family relationships and family dynamics...

Frank

 

[arabella]

Ok, Frank, I believe I see what you are saying, that the IChing continues to adapt, or we can adapt it, to universal symbolism and current social patterns. I suppose anything that endures must follow a rationale that we can relate to. One point further -- What do you think of this emerging psycho-social ideal which conflicts with your view of family connection represented by the IChing --

A close psychologist friend whose philosophy of treatment is absolutely fascinating and whose results are amazing, recently explained to me that having engaged in nearly forty years of therapy, having been devoted to his patients in a highly spiritual way, he now concludes that people are important to one another completely regardless of blood ties. In fact, he proposes to eliminate the necessity to understand family relationships at all in some cases. He succeeds with many patients by advising them to divorce ideas of family from their lives, forget the blood relation issues that are hampering and crushing them, ignore any need to understand how their parents behaved or their relations with siblings. Instead, he says, we often have friends, spouse, and others who love us more than our families and are far healthier for us. He's not proposing this as a rule, but as a possibility where dystunctional families are so destructive [more cases than you might think] that it is pointless to understand the background, but simply time to move on. I've seen what he is capable of utilising this therapeutic approach and it is formidable. It's really avant garde, but it works! Do you think the IChing would keep step with such logic?

 

[fkegan]

Ok, Frank, I believe I see what you are saying, that the IChing continues to adapt, or we can adapt it, to universal symbolism and current social patterns. I suppose anything that endures must follow a rationale that we can relate to. One point further -- What do you think of this emerging psycho-social ideal which conflicts with your view of family connection represented by the IChing --

A close psychologist friend whose philosophy of treatment is absolutely fascinating and whose results are amazing, recently explained to me that having engaged in nearly forty years of therapy, having been devoted to his patients in a highly spiritual way, he now concludes that people are important to one another completely regardless of blood ties. In fact, he proposes to eliminate the necessity to understand family relationships at all in some cases. He succeeds with many patients by advising them to divorce ideas of family from their lives, forget the blood relation issues that are hampering and crushing them, ignore any need to understand how their parents behaved or their relations with siblings. Instead, he says, we often have friends, spouse, and others who love us more than our families and are far healthier for us. He's not proposing this as a rule, but as a possibility where dystunctional families are so destructive [more cases than you might think] that it is pointless to understand the background, but simply time to move on. I've seen what he is capable of utilising this therapeutic approach and it is formidable. It's really avant garde, but it works! Do you think the IChing would keep step with such logic?

Hi Arabella,

Not sure that the Yi text of 3 millennia ago does much adapting, though the magic of the King Wen Sequence of the Chou I Ching is that its elegant abstract symbolism continues to describe clearly how each of us perceives the eternal Flux of the Universe all around us.

An emerging psycho-social ideal in conflict with my views of family dynamics? There seems to be rather strong evolutionary support for the notion that children are in competition for their parents attention and scarce resources which are the essence of birth order family dynamics.

What I believe you are referring to has nothing to do with that at all. Instead it is part of the process of evolving doctrines of family therapy now that the great pioneers have passed on and their original disciples have retired and no one can recreate their results any more.

Narrative therapy is big now, that is the view that folks tend to cling to a narrative that is their life script (to use the old TA notion) and that by looking at their personal history and highlighting their successes they tended to discount before; with the therapist they come to create a new life story and personal narrative that is more positive.

That is more what it sounds like your therapist friend is coming to as a new perspective. Trying to work through family dynamics is very difficult but hopefully, it isn't needed if an individual can rely on their current therapist, friends and spouse for a better alternative. The limiting factor in such a new perspective is the individual's ability to release or ignore their family dynamics and move on to current realities and possibilities.

The I Ching has no problem with a new perspective of making your way in the world. There are some issues with the Confucian commentaries in conflict with the Taoist ones in terms of whether what matters is being a proper Imperial bureaucrat or living on your own without an official job requiring proper decorum.

The Yi doesn't have problems, folks do. The Yi just describes how you are seeing things in a way you can appreciate.

What you are describing as very new and special is work from a few decades ago when folks stopped trying to solve human or family problems; but rather just make an accommodation through Rx meds or simple practical steps to manage to carry on required basic functioning. When you take the attitude of, "Well, what exactly do you need different so you can get up and go to work, come home, maintain your household and watch TV or listen to music to keep the bad thoughts in your head at bay." Simpler goals and effective results.

I agree with that perspective. I have been with people trying to get free of their family dynamics and I agree it hurts too much to expect anyone to undertake it when there are alternatives that leave the problems behind and just worry about being functional...

Frank

 

[arabella]

Brilliant. Interesting stuff. I think what I was asking your opinion on, precisely, is this. If the IChing is reflective as you've noted of family alliance/blood relations and we abandon that alliance in a pscyhological sense as a means of survival or emotional freedom, do you believe that the symbolism of the IChing will still work to describe the situation and options available? Do we simply then use the symbolism to refer to relationships in an abstract way?

I asked that because the examples you gave above of carrying on the work of an ancestor were really quite concrete. But I think we're headed into a time now where family, nationality, all of it is up for grabs. All of my children, for example, are Third Culture Kids, not even sure where they come from, answering the telephone in one language, chatting in another. And many kids have multiple parents, three moms and five dads. It's all quite malleable in social terms. So In the case I am proposing, of abandoning ideals of family alliance and the accompanying psychological mutation, does that alter how you would read the IChing? Do we just pick up the more abstract language of the King Wen and keep going?

BTW, I've work in therapy to some extent with any variety of social workers and pscyhiatrists/clinical psychologists. They are the nuttiest people around. Freud was utterly lost on me, but Jung a different story, quite accessible, absolute genius and so in step with science in the main. And I disagree the pioneers are gone in psychotherapy. I've known several purely AMAZING people, including the man referenced above who is unique in achieving results by combining spiritual values with psychology; and also John Weir Perry who made huge inroads in treating schizophrenics. And there are others.

 

[fkegan]

Brilliant. Interesting stuff. I think what I was asking your opinion on, precisely, is this. If the IChing is reflective as you've noted of family alliance/blood relations and we abandon that alliance in a pscyhological sense as a means of survival or emotional freedom, do you believe that the symbolism of the IChing will still work to describe the situation and options available? Do we simply then use the symbolism to refer to relationships in an abstract way?

I asked that because the examples you gave above of carrying on the work of an ancestor were really quite concrete. But I think we're headed into a time now where family, nationality, all of it is up for grabs. All of my children, for example, are Third Culture Kids, not even sure where they come from, answering the telephone in one language, chatting in another. And many kids have multiple parents, three moms and five dads. It's all quite malleable in social terms. So In the case I am proposing, of abandoning ideals of family alliance and the accompanying psychological mutation, does that alter how you would read the IChing? Do we just pick up the more abstract language of the King Wen and keep going?

BTW, I've work in therapy to some extent with any variety of social workers and pscyhiatrists/clinical psychologists. They are the nuttiest people around. Freud was utterly lost on me, but Jung a different story, quite accessible, absolute genius and so in step with science in the main. And I disagree the pioneers are gone in psychotherapy. I've known several purely AMAZING people, including the man referenced above who is unique in achieving results by combining spiritual values with psychology; and also John Weir Perry who made huge inroads in treating schizophrenics. And there are others.

Hi Arabella,

The Yi is not at all reflective of " family alliance/blood relations." The family dynamics are all about how folks live together not their DNA profile. It is about how families form within homes (hex 37) and work out their living dynamics to get what they can of the available resources, similar to how plants grow into the sunlight or the giraffe evolved to find food high up where the competition was less intense.

As new ways of talking about our human condition develop, they are just that, talk. The fundamental structures and dynamics remain the same eternally--that is what the Yi symbolism describes. In any group where there are available resources lying about, someone will find a use for them. Where lots are gathered with scarce resources the rules of competition will play out.
The relationships of the Yi remain as strong today as ever. Perhaps the eldest daughter becomes the one trying to live out her special relationship of being there back in the day, before the others joined in. The youngest daughter becomes the one with the least connection to the expectations of the powerful adults; having the greatest interest in what she can develop for herself. The middle daughter remains the one trying to make peace amongst them all and get some bit of recognition from everyone else.

Those are the roles and relations of any group. So the biological origins get less controlling and the living dynamics come to the fore; what has truly changed?

There are many differences now that the old distinctions of race and status are becoming obsolete; however, that doesn't eliminate distinctions just make them more fluid and personal.

Speaking at least two languages fluently with others also able to float meaning away from specific words is an important skill and experience to have. The one thing that gets very difficult in such language pools is remembering what language anything was originally said in at all. Apparently the mind stores meaning rather than remembers words. The symbolic patterns of the Yi lines are the only model we have for how such a thing could be accomplished in our brains.

Whatever the background of the children, they live in a home which has less than infinite resources including attention and love. That is what forms the basis of the family dynamics of the Yi symbolism. That is what is eternal and that is what is expressed by the Yi Oracle.

In terms of therapists, which if the word is broken into pieces after the E becomes "the rapists" also have the difficulty that it is painful to earn one's living from dealing with the problems of others that they can only partially ever resolve. Generally, therapists are defined as that group of folks who evade their own personal quirks by helping others face theirs on the theory that if they help enough others work through their issues, then the therapist's own issue will be resolved too.

There should always be new pioneers in any field. My comments were about the old days when everyone, absolutely everyone in psychotherapy was trained by Freud. Then some of those Original pioneers developed their own insights and methods based upon their own life history. It was that group who died and their chief disciples retired and the folks left in the field could no longer make any of their theories work as they expected.

They re-organized in terms of useful techniques or insightful perspectives to continue their work in therapy which ultimately is a re-parenting operation like the ancient Hindu guru-chela relations. Whatever went awry in whatever home environment some one was raised in can be ameliorated by a new supportive home-family environment right now. The connection to the Divine is always a major part of working out personal issues, as also is the establishment of successful working relations and ongoing sexual relations of a regular sort too. These are the basics of the I Ching symbolism too along with the family dynamics of finding your niche in a system of ongoing, stable personal relations with the rest of the household.

Frank

 

[einhorn]

Link to the original discussion you guys are talking about about asking yes/no vs. specific questions?

 

[peter2610]

Answer without a conscious question

Hello Arabella,

Really glad you "butted in." I am intrigued. How exactly do you create an answer without actually asking a question? What do you do and how do you refer that process through the IChing. Sounds very "ZEN."

Sorry about the delay in getting back to you on this. To create an answer 'without a conscious question' simply generate an answer using your usual method (I use the coin method) whilst keeping your mind calm and clear of any thoughts. When you get your answer simply reflect on it and try super-imposing it upon your recent thoughts and experiences, including issues you might have been hoping to avoid. When the 'answer' fits a particular experience or thought process it should fall into place with a reassuring level of accuracy.
It's an interesting exercise in that it allows the I Ching to decide what 'it' thinks we should address. Even with the usual method of having a prepared question I sometimes find that the I Ching will address the most important element in a situation rather than give a literal answer to the original question. Peter