Double 53 -Line 3

[dragonfly]

Hi All, As a Yi user of many years (Why does that sound like a confession!?)it was with joy that I stumbled upon 'Clarity'. I have been reading the threads here for some time and your remakable insights have reignited my enthusiasm and desire to learn .
Today I asked about the underlying dynamic of a relationship and received 53.3,4 >12.
Next I enquired of this person's view of the situation : 53.1,3>42.
I understand the limitations of asking about someone else's perspective but am intrigued by the repetition. Any thoughts would be great. Thanks.

 

[jesed]

Hi

Just in case the comment could be useful

The time of 53 (gradual development of the relationship) is in the past; now the relation is in 12. So, it would be wise to examine what happened in the relation between August 1st and December 17, 2006, There is where you can find the root of the actual blockage in the relation.

X's remain "as if" this is still time of 53. But it isn't.

Now, most important question, how is YOUR own position within the relation?

Best wishes

 

[dobro p]

I disagree with Jesed's interpretation that 53 refers to the past and 12 refers to the present.

Today I asked about the underlying dynamic of a relationship and received 53.3,4 >12.
Next I enquired of this person's view of the situation : 53.1,3>42.

The underlying dynamic: the theme of gradual progress toward greater unity and fidelity in the relationship is somehow being blocked, possibly by a lack of communication. The individual lines don't look particularly promising - they talk about a need to prevent wrongdoing in the relationship and the possibility (*only* a possibility) of finding a good foundation for yourself and the relationship.

This person's view of the situation: this person sees the gradual progress toward greater unity and understanding in the relationship to be increasing. (If that perception is a delusion, then it might be contributing to the blocked flow of communication in the other consultation. The fact that 53.3 is common to both consultations might suggest that the 'problem' highlighted in the first response is also contained in the attitude of the other person in the second response.)

 

[willowfox]

Hex 53.3 suggests that the relationship is in a time of confusion, it is not progressing as it should perhaps you are trying to force the issue, to do this will only cause trouble.

Hex 53.4 It seems that you are not content with the relationship as it is but you must accept the relationship as is, then you will gain stability.

Hex 12 If you carry on in the wrong way then this relationship will most certainly stagnate, then there will be chaos leading to possible alienation.


Hex 53.1 the other person feels rather alone here and they are not sure what to do exactly, so they have chosen to proceed slowly and carefully, they feel that there are difficulties to be overcome.

Hex 53.3 they wish to be patient and proceed carefully, they are exercising self control in order to avoid future problems.

Hex 42 they see that there is a potential for a successful relationship for them, that the problems can be resolved but everyone has to make an effort here for the success to come into play.

 

[lightofreason]

Hex 53.3 suggests that the relationship is in a time of confusion, it is not progressing as it should perhaps you are trying to force the issue, to do this will only cause trouble.
........
Hex 53.3 they wish to be patient and proceed carefully, they are exercising self control in order to avoid future problems.

IC+

Line 53.3 -
"[One's spirit progressing towards too higher ground]. The husband punished, does not return. [As a result] the pregnant wife has no support. Unfortunate. Advantageous to resist breaking the law." [Attempts to climb too high lead to breaking the law - downfall]

Line 3 is controlled by hexagram 15 and covers issues of modesty, levelling out, even things out, reduce the highs, fill in the lows. This is covered in the focus on resisting any extremes.

the 'change' is to 57 and so focus on issues covering cultivation and trying to become influencial. Thus the 15-ness of 53 is described by analogy to 57 where we focus on the dynamics of 'rising wind' - dont try to 'rise' too high but also dont drop to nothing, no wind means too low; this action will maintain the 'gradual development' of 53 overall.

the above applies to both questions where the questioner fills in the dots, customises the universal to local context; it gives the questioner some freedom of movement, some contribution of choice rather than not able to input anything.

The issues here re willowfox and myself are in filtration rules and the focus on those seeking identity - willowfox seems to believe that all is determined, the individual has no ''say" and so must obey all 'rules' or 'interpretations' given by external sources. This is the path of earth trigram in the EARTH five-phase position where identity is derived from forces outside of self so must be obeyed unconditionally - this is hard core determinism where context pushes and one reacts with no questioning - the actions of a disciple, advocate (obey instructions of client regardless of own perspectives).

My perspective is more that of mountain where we are still in the EARTH five-phase position but have consciousness and personal experiences that allow for discernment of our conditions - as such we can seek guidance from a mentor/teacher etc but the final decision is up to us. As such with 'others determination' is 'self determination'.

Thus what I give in an interpretation is general, universal, and the questioner then fills in the dots, grounds the universal with their experience of what is going on and their history that I nore anyone else has any idea about. As such the mountain way practices a degree of self-restraint in interpretations in that it recognises personal consciousness as being a source of local differences whereas the earth approach ignores such differences and in doing so ignores the ability of some degree of 'randomness' in the 'determinism'!

In the context of filtration I tbink the IC is more mountain than earth, or more so filtration can start as earth but will develop into mountain - if allowed to, if one can recognise personal uniqueness and so the final arbitor re local events concerning oneself.

Hex 53 is a mountain based hexagram and so in the mountain octet of hexagrams. In the earth octet this position is occupied by hex 20 and that is passive; as such in earth the IC is a source of admiration and motivation - one would like to be/do like the IC and so all rules come from what is admired. BUT the development of that relationship recognises the influences of personal consciousness and so the relationship develops into what mountain covers, the IC as a guide, a mentor, a muse, with the final decisions on meaning upto the individual and so conditional on personal experiences. As such it is essental to 'leave some room' for the questioner to 'fill in some dots' and even if the questioner is a disciple/advocate 'type' so there is still some room for them to intuitively add their own 'natures' to an interpretation - if the external says 'dont eat that apple!' one still has imagination, there is still some 'freedom of thought'. ;-)

Chris.

 

[dragonfly]

Wonderful insights!
Jesed, I will contemplate the time between Aug. and Dec. last year. At the moment it feels rather like a breakthrough time rather than a blocked one but, certainly, the breath of 12 is on this relationship.
Dobro, Hi, yeah, this really resonates with me. When one refers back to the original question (ie. 'dynamic...') it does imply 'present' and the drama of this union changes so quickly! 'Right' and 'Wrong' or I would rather say 'effects on others' is a factor, also.
Willowfox, thanks, you have managed to cut a gash through my very cloudy confusion. It is true , I wish things were otherwise but believe that this relationship is teaching me to really be with what is...even if that means loss. That is my challenge and the path that teeters on the edge of a 12 state.Your insights into my friend's perspective is a tribute to his deep caring nature and I hope he does feel as positive about the eventual outcome as you do.
Hi, Lightofreason, it is useful to meditate on the general 'flavour' of the reading. This may help to objectify a very emotional time. Yeah, it's a balancing act - a middle way situation.I don't respond to complete determination either. I walk a spiritual path and although I use many maps I have to clear the ground before me.
I wonder if this combination of hex. is about the combined freewill of both myself and my pal? We both have something to learn.

 

[dragonfly]

I asked today the best thing for me to do in view of the previous reading and received 11.3>19. The connection between being with what is and 11.3 seems clear but is this a contradiction to 19 (Approach) What? How????