Dreaming of Unreliable Men: 49.4.5. > 36

[grace heart]

Hello everyone,

After about 4 years of an intense yet unsatisfying relationship with a man I thought I loved deeply at the time, we have finally broke up last December. The whole thing has taught me a lot, above all to trust in myself and my own experience, which I now recognise as the only means of eliminating any mistrust from the way I relate to others. It's a work in progress - hence my asking for your insight!

Throughout the period we were together, I used to have dreams where he would let me down somehow, but not on purpose - it was all down to some convoluted and frustrating dream-circumstances unfolding, or simply the fact that he seemed blissfully unaware of what I needed from him.

Almost half a year later, I'm still having an occasional dream on the same theme, except sometimes the role he used to play is taken by a different man from my past. After having another such dream, involving the man I barely ever think of during my waking hours, I asked Yi what was it that my drams of unreliable/ unavailable men are trying to tell me. The answer was 49.4.5.>36

Okay: I spring cleaned and moved on, with much support from the inner, outer and the invisible world. So why do I need to hide now?

Just one more thing, the man I broke up with is keeping in touch (email, text), despite his seeing "other people." After a few months of not responding, and many a provocation, I finally succumbed and told him exactly what I thought of him (40!), and now I only reply to his innocent enough seeming little remarks, and in jest, lightly... Perhaps Yi's telling me not to share even that small bit of me?.. Because my replying seems to keep this man going, in some unfathomable way, but keeps me involved still - I mean, how much energy is "a little bit of energy", especially if needing it myself?..

I would be grateful for your blissfully detached insight. And yes, I'm aware of the co-dependant issues glaring back at me from this text. Wow. Embracing the ugly.

Many thanks,

Grace

 

[moss elk]

Both lines speak of confidence.

There is self confidence and there is the confidence others place in you.
Self confidence is the most important, other people come and go, but you are always there.
When the snake sheds its skin it is getting rid of what is worn out and uneeded, to make way for the new and vital. May it be that in the dreams you are shedding people that are no good for you?
And maybe shedding a belief that you need unworthy people, or that you yourself are unworthy of good people? If the dream comes again remember this phrase, "No thank you"

 

[grace heart]

Thank you, Moss Elk, your answer, as they say (and mean it), completely resonates with me.

So the hexagram 36, could it be about the necessity to keep a low profile until this influence (i.e., unreliable man) is well out of my sphere of experiencing, and/or I'm strong enough for it not to suck me back in?

***No, thank you: as God is my witness, I shall never be with unreliable men again!***

 

[moss elk]

About 36:
What about If you dont make the change (of manifesting confidence) you would continue to be in difficult relationships where you can't shine?

 

[grace heart]

Oh no, that would be so tiresome not to mention horrid!

Thanks Mossie (can I call you that?) and keep on shining on yourself, you diamond you.

G.

 

[sooo]

I don't think your dreams have anything to do with your literal relationships with other men, other than the symbolic impression they have left on your psyche, your deeper psyche, i.e. animus. What you are in the process of shedding is your reliance upon your reasoning, your 'doing the right thing', your logic, your will. The other side of these would be greater reliance and trust upon your intuition, your feminine senses, the right hemisphere of your brain.

36 could easily represent the area from where these dreams come from, the trigrams of fire or light hidden beneath the earth - the unseen and consciously unrealized place. What can also be seen as symbolic is that fire is the middle or central daughter, which is located beneath the earth, representing the mother. This could represent those right brain intuitive senses.

You can apply this to your outer world too, by tapping into your intuitive senses in your selection of an appropriate man or men to invest yourself in, rather than rationalizing your way into these kinds of relationships.

But foremost is your relationship within yourself between your reasoning and your intuition. From there comes your ability to more wisely discern the company you keep, as well as becoming better company yourself.

 

[goddessliss]

Hi Grace, have the flu so not up to interpreting but just a suggestion - get some Relationship Essence from health food shop it's a product of Australian Bush Flower Essences. - Liss

http://ausflowers.com.au/Combination-Essences/Relationship-Essence-30ml

 

[grace heart]

Hello sooo, it's a rather exciting interpretation to go with; my heart centre came alive as I was reading your words, so thank you straight from there.

 

[grace heart]

Hi Grace, have the flu so not up to interpreting but just a suggestion - get some Relationship Essence from health food shop it's a product of Australian Bush Flower Essences. - Liss

http://ausflowers.com.au/Combination-Essences/Relationship-Essence-30ml

Thank you, goddessliss, and do you know what - I believe I may have some in my fridge! Hope your flu's no more, Grace

 

[sooo]

Hello sooo, it's a rather exciting interpretation to go with; my heart centre came alive as I was reading your words, so thank you straight from there.

And thank you for being receptive.

I was thinking about this and want to clarify something. I'm not suggesting the male/yang side of you diminish; it is that very side of you that is in need of transformation: that you make better decisions, that you choose wisely, that your left, logical brain is better functioning. And that the way to do that is not to act independently but as a partner with those yin/intuitive right brain senses I referred to.

Those we respond strongly to outside of us are projections of our inner self. In the case of a woman being attracted to a man, it is her animus projection that she is seeing. It's a rude awakening when she wakes up to realize, he is not who she thought he was. And naturally it is the same for a man's anima projection upon a woman he is strongly attracted to, and it is a rude awakening when he realizes, she is not who he thought she was. What this means is, it's the end of projections and potentially the beginning of developing a love relationship. So often a couple never go beyond their disillusionment with one another, and both walk away feeling the other is unreliable.

 

[grace heart]

What this means is, it's the end of projections and potentially the beginning of developing a love relationship. So often a couple never go beyond their disillusionment with one another, and both walk away feeling the other is unreliable.

Yes, that's exactly what happened, or kept happening with the man I broke up last. So frustrating to feel like you could have it all, and then discover, again&again, that you absolutely, positively couldn't. Reminds me of the Skeleton Woman story from Women Who Run With The Wolves, especially where Estés describes the phases of love as "a series of seven tasks that teach one soul to love another deeply and well." I think that's just wonderful; a wonderful mission, but perilous and with no guarantees of success. What's needed is, like you say, integration, and I believe I stumbled across a miracle-vehicle for emotional integration - The Presence Process.... and poetry! Thanks again for your generous spirit, and as a token of my appreciation here's the poem I penned er - earlier... Don't worry, it's pretty cool, even if I damn well say so myself!..

Prayer For The Dead Lover


God bless the precious him
Who did but meant no hurt
God save the him in him
Who’d like to reassert
He’s innocent of any crimes
Against me or my kin,
God bless and save and spare the him
Who never dealt in sin.


Save him Lord, although you know
He almost spelt the end of me
He almost spelt the end of time
Forgive him, Lord, and let him be.


O Spirit God who dwells above
In a kingdom by the sea,
Don’t let his soul and flesh succumb
Like those of Annabel Lee,
But bless the him who knows the truth
As well as a dying man would
Forgive him all the trespasses
Release his debt for good.


Save him Lord, although you know
He almost spelt the end of me
He almost spelt the end of time
Forgive him, Lord, and let him be.


Angels looking from on High
Sing a sweet song of reprieve
Give him one more chance at life
But not at love, I don’t believe
His heart could ever back out of black
His soul embrace the light,
O angels let him live once more,
A life free from delight.


Save him Lord, although you know
He almost spelt the end of me
He almost spelt the end of time
Forgive him, Lord, so I can be.

​

 

[sooo]

How bitter sweet your prayer
as life seems to always be.
In near seventy years
I've met not man nor woman free
from love's sweet agony.
It is the dark side even of the compassionate savior,
that Bodhisattva.

 

[grace heart]

How bitter sweet your prayer
as life seems to always be.
In near seventy years
I've met not man nor woman free
from love's sweet agony.
It is the dark side even of the compassionate savior,
that Bodhisattva.

Oh sooo true.

 

[goddessliss]

well last night I had a dream I was with an unavailable man, didn't go too far and it felt right but in reality it's not right to be with someone else's man

 

[ginnie]

Those we respond strongly to outside of us are projections of our inner self....So often a couple never go beyond their disillusionment with one another, and both walk away feeling the other is unreliable.

So profoundly true. I think that in her dreams Grace Heart is working through all this, seeking to make sense of it.

 

[sooo]

well last night I had a dream I was with an unavailable man, didn't go too far and it felt right but in reality it's not right to be with someone else's man

Last night, early morning actually,
I dreamed of meeting a most fair maiden,
so pure her smile, her skin silky like cream,
so deep the neckline of her simple cotton dress.
So kind and oh so close she came,
passing by along the hallway same
of the large house we shared.
My hope soared to the height of fantasy,
until her young innocent son beside her came, smiling up to me.
Politely and quickly I made my way past;
my heart grew heavy upon awakening
that such sweet and tender youth could not last.

 

[goddessliss]

Last night, early morning actually,
I dreamed of meeting a most fair maiden,
so pure her smile, her skin silky like cream,
so deep the neckline of her simple cotton dress.
So kind and oh so close she came,
passing by along the hallway same
of the large house we shared.
My hope soared to the height of fantasy,
until her young innocent son beside her came, smiling up to me.
Politely and quickly I made my way past;
my heart grew heavy upon awakening
that such sweet and tender youth could not last.

Beautiful words sooo or is it a song and is it an original of yours? Thanks for sharing but why oh why do we have such moments!!

 

[sooo]

Beautiful words sooo or is it a song and is it an original of yours? Thanks for sharing but why oh why do we have such moments!!

Thank you, Liss. Just the way words come out when I am in that mood or mode. I suppose it can be put to music though.

Being of Jungian persuasion, I view my dream as my own inner being. The young fair maiden was my anima, which is why we lived in the same big house, which was more like an apartment building (in my Father's house are many houses). When her young son appeared close to her, I realized she was not available, but I could see no husband, and her kindness and closeness to me was not overt seduction but nonetheless a powerful mutual attraction. The small boy was my youth, which would make the fair maiden also a symbol of my mother - enter Freud: as a very young boy, my first sexual attraction was toward my mother, who was very beautiful. One day, while she was kneeling by the rose garden, pulling weeds from the soft ground, bent over - from where I stood I saw down the front of her light cotton dress. It made an indelible impression which will last my entire life, on what I find attractive in women. In my waking life, I was still grieving the death of my mother, and it was the morning after Mother's Day. It was a beautiful dream but also heavy with sadness, for the loss of youth, of my mother, of myself, of the kind of love I could only dream of. It's easier to express in a poem, but as a self-analyst, this is my analysis.

Your dream, as well as those of Grace Heart, I view similarly, though mine may have been more complex due to the Freudian element. A woman has many father animus figures during her life; a man typically has one. I'd be inclined to view men in your dreams who, for one reason or another, are fleeting and unattainable, even untouchable, and certainly unreliable, to represent your animus: your inner male.

 

[goddessliss]

Thanks sooo - you have just set me on the next part of my healing and journey. I was about to ask you if you thought then, that the partner you attract is only a reflection of your inner animus at that time. Typed that question into google and found some articles on just that. Thank you for your help

 

[sooo]

Thanks sooo - you have just set me on the next part of my healing and journey. I was about to ask you if you thought then, that the partner you attract is only a reflection of your inner animus at that time. Typed that question into google and found some articles on just that. Thank you for your help

Thank you for being open, Liss. A little disclaimer is in order here. I'm well aware that some disagree with these ideas, and may be think, what a bunch of hogwash. That's fine, I accept that. However, I've studied these things through my entire adult life and these are conclusions I've reached, not just about me, I'm just an example. It's harder to apply these things to oneself and not a little bit embarrassing to talk openly about, but it's what I believe nonetheless.

I believe, initially that's true, the objects of our intimate attraction are what's typically referred to as our anima/animus projections. Campbell dramatizes this in his Mythos lectures, describing how he (representing objectively the man) is smitten by a woman whom he "falls in love with." Then one day after getting to know her more realistically determines he no longer is in love with the girl, whom he has married. He is now faced with two choices: One is to go to her and say, "I'm sorry, my dear, you are not who I thought you were, it is time for me to redefine and find a new anima projection." The second choice is called love, where he says, ok, you are not what I took you for, my inner female, and I will learn to love the you that you are. One rejects the disillusionment, the other accepts the disillusionment, and sets out on the works of learning to love her. Very often, she experiences this same realization of disillusionment, and is faced with the same two choices. As I mentioned earlier, these days of immediate gratification, too often they go their separate ways, both feeling disillusioned. All mature couples understand that love beyond this point takes effort, then from that effort blooms real love between the two. One can find this work on this process in h11. That doesn't mean that their h31 must end, as it too often does. 31 can keep their 11 alive and full of vigor. But is does take effort.

I think BB King's song, "the thrill is gone" depicts this crossroads of disillusionment very well. If one is willing to do the ensuing work, but the other is not, the marriage may last, but it won't be a happy marriage. It takes both to realize, ok, this is not what we both thought, but we want to make this to work, and both set about to make it work; that's when real love can grow and to enjoy the fruits of their love, till death do them part, as it was meant to be.

There is also the matter of creating this inner harmony with ones own animus or anima, which is the business of psychology, more so than of marriage or relationship counseling. If one is not compatible with themselves, it is highly unlikely they'll find compatibility with someone else. As with most things, the work begins in ones own home, in ones own head, where they live.

Wishing you continued healing, and if you desire it, true love.

 

[goddessliss]

Thanks sooo - I didn't realise I was being 'so open' as it's how I am all the time although I must admit a lot of people comment how great it is to actually 'talk about things' after speaking with me. I don't know what else to talk about unless it's of substance. Recently I've started watching TV again after many years of not or just watching a program that interested me and I find myself thinking - really is that what people do with their lives or how they behave - a funny World we live in, indeed!

As for other people thinking what you've said is hogwash - each to their own, something I definitely learned through the judgements of my christian son and his wife towards me. I know what I believe and the knowledge I have and how I use it has helped many people move forward in a positive way in their lives and the knowledge you've shared here has helped me move forward in a positive way.

Apart from the substance abuse of my husband helping to destroy our marriage, I've always maintained what you suggested was a big part of the reason - me deciding to grow within and him not. He is 10 years younger than me so whether that's relevant or not I don't know but that's essentially to me, what happened. Haha yes I found true and deep love once and I hope to have that again. - Liss