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Experience with unchanging hex: 49UC

Yasmin

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I am new to iching, but wanted to share a recent experience with 49UC whihc I found fascinating because it works on so many levels. Regarding a relationship that has reached a turning point, I asked: what now? And got 49UC - Revolution

1- this is someone I met during a political revolution, its what brought us together. There are rumblings of a sequel to the Revolution, and it could affect the future of our relationship. 49UC as Ongoing political Revolution - how literal is that as background?

2- this man's life is undergoing a revolution. A man with traditional family values, dealing with the aftermath of a divorce his did not choose. His life, his beliefs etc... are shaken to their very foundations, he is still processing all that, and it is affecting our relationship. 49UC as someone's life undergoing a radical change.

3- our relationship is at a turning point. The old way of relating is no longer possible. So there I was agonizing about whether this would be the end or moving things forward :) It turns out its neither. its about letting go of a shared romanticised view of the relationship, and facing reality. Working with what we've got. Its neither good, nor bad, but it is radically dfferent! So 49UC as radical change in perspective.

4- how I deal with this is a turning point in my personal development,its letting go of a pattern of how I manage relationships. 49UC as a deep inner shift of awareness.

The jury is still out, this could yet bring up more interpretations of 49UC!
 
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Trojina

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I've found with 49 uc that the thing in question looks likes it's disapeared, gone...end of story and I always think "huh what revolution, c'est finis !" Er then the thing in question reappears in my life in quite a new changed form.


For example I had quite a fairly distanced kind of friendship with someone I met on a course. It was okay but slightly uneasy. It disapeared from view. When it reappeared it had somehow transformed into a very fun filled friendship :eek:

I didn't get to see what happened in between, what happened in the interim ....but something did, I don't know what.

So yeah on this and other occasions 49 uc has looked like something totally vanished whereas infact it was reinventing itself......with no apparent effort from anyone. Seems like a natural seasonal change. Who knows why one day it's winter and the next day it's spring.


I know its a too often used cliche..... but the mysterious phase between the caterpillar and the butterfly comes to mind....what's it called the pupa stage ?
 

Yasmin

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Thank you Trojan for that insight. Interesting. In my example, with so much revolution happening simultaneously on so many levels, it would be a waste of time to try to predict or control an outcome. Its a different kind of black box - i can see a lot is happening, but there is too much uncertainty to see where ts going. Perhaps that is another learning from 49UC - Dont try to predict or control the outcome? I like the idea of letting the situation reinvent itself.

Actually, that fits well with the advice in 49.6, its interpretation by LiSe and her reference to Harmen:

"Baobian is a transformation which takes place in one's nature, it cannot be controlled, it has to take it's natural course. Gemian is a change only in the face, the outside expression which can be controlled by ones will and intentions. Follow nature is good, follow the will is not good. Therefore 征凶.居貞吉. A (planned, will-driven) journey would not do any good"

Basically, we must do what we can, and leave the rest to nature, "We must be satisfied with the attainable. If we should go too far and try to achieve too much, it would lead to unrest and misfortune"
 
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anemos

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while the phrase " growth is always a loss" may be not always true in the context of 49 seems it bodes well , imo. Shedding deadwood was the bottom line of a situation I was facing. Was not very thrilled however it was one of those things that your really have no choice or the other options are not very wise.

I knew all this, i new I had to proceed yet a part of me wishing not to put myself it that procedure , so I asked and in the back of my mind I was looking for a way to avoid it :blush: I got 49 unchanging... I could almost see that emoticon :mischief: between the lines, lol . The words of a person, a specialist on those situations, echoed in my mind : "the time has come"....

49 feels more gentle than 23. maybe because the time is ripe for such changes and the accompanied losses seems more natural in a way.
 

hilary

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I've seen 49 unchanging refer to adolescent rebellion - I got the impression (admittedly, from the parent!) that the teenager was doing nothing but rebel/ revolt against the old regime. 49 unchanging would raise the question: so you're overthrowing the old ways, but what do you intend to put in their place?
 

meng

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yasmin

I love how you found four reasonable applications, using your own words; and all without a single change line.
 

meng

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Have respect for earth, using heaven's time.
 

Yasmin

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Thanks Meng- not very academic, I'm afraid :)

That said, if I had to relate my experience of political revolution to a line, sadly, t would be 49.3: leaderless, with no consensus on desired outcome, and headed straight for misfortune - More revolution or a different kind of dictatorship. Unless somehow order miraculously emerges out of the chaos... So I find it interesting that the judgement and text assumes its within one's control to initiate and direct the course of revolution. I suppose it is for some... For us in the Middle East, its more like navigating a ship in a tsunami without GPS!

By the way, Hilary's experience with adolescent rebellion seems to relate to line 3 as well.
 

meng

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Thanks Meng- not very academic, I'm afraid :)

Whose, yours or mine? lol ...certainly mine are only by luck academic.

49.3
its within one's control to initiate and direct the course of revolution

But, which revolving is Yi referring to? It is within one's control to initiate and direct the course of ones own revolution. And that is likely collectively shared; so you are still part of it, no matter which side of it you choose. From one side you can't see the entire picture, hear the entire mix.

So, your answer isn't going to be according to any assumptions you make about right or wrong, so much as determining a line of little resistance, to be in accord with the time. It may take three tries to be heard. Molting doesn't usually happen all at once, it takes discomfort and timing, and for some, a nice big tree to rub on.

Who needs to hear here, line 3? So, whose revolution is Yi referring to, do you think?
 

Yasmin

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Meng, I meant my comments are not very academic:)

If I understand correctly, you are saying look for the learning in this situation, for example, question who needs to speak / hear 3 times? Etc... I will ponder that, and post later. Plenty of opportunity, it applies on so many levels, I keep drawing 49s, its the underlying fabric of my life :)
 

Trojina

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I meant my comments are not very academic


Hey Jasmin these threads about unchanging hexagrams are all about experiences and experiences aren't academic so don't worry about being academic just keep posting away won't you ! :D
 

meng

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Meng, I meant my comments are not very academic:)

If I understand correctly, you are saying look for the learning in this situation, for example, question who needs to speak / hear 3 times? Etc... I will ponder that, and post later. Plenty of opportunity, it applies on so many levels, I keep drawing 49s, its the underlying fabric of my life :)

Hi Yasmin,

You sited four specifics, which I think are entirely applicable.

I was pointing to the imbalance in line 3, and that there is a lack of confidence or belief, and it's something which can't be forced but must wait for the right time to transform. It likely will take repetition and constancy "to be believed". I mentioned it because you said you related to it, pretty much just intended as a side-note.

I also asked, whose revolution is this? With the implication being, perhaps it is you who is going through a change or renewal. Perhaps you are maturing.
 

Trojina

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Hooray someone already started the 49uc thread some time back so I am just hoisting it up to the top as 49uc is the next we come to after 48uc ;)


I'll find any other stuff to add later. Meantime please share your own reading experiences with 49uc if you have any :D
 

kafuka

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I've found with 49 uc that the thing in question looks likes it's disapeared, gone...end of story and I always think "huh what revolution, c'est finis !" Er then the thing in question reappears in my life in quite a new changed form.

For example I had quite a fairly distanced kind of friendship with someone I met on a course. It was okay but slightly uneasy. It disapeared from view. When it reappeared it had somehow transformed into a very fun filled friendship :eek:
I got 49 unchanging once when I asked What'll happen between me and the woman I met in a restaurant.
2 months ago I went to a restaurant for dinner, had a beer. She came later and sat to the next table. I thought she's a foreigner at first but she wasn't. I was drawn to her like I've never experienced before... everything about that night felt magical, I was totally smitten. We talked, exchanged phone numbers and parted.

After that we exchanged a few phone calls. When I was visiting her town (I live 200 km far from her) I called her, wanted to arrange a meeting, but she told me she didn't have time (it sounded more like she doesn't want to meet than she can't though, I don't know).
So far that's all that happened and I haven't heard from her since. She disapeared. ;) Well, maybe we'll get in touch again? I have no idea.

P.S. Anyway, meeting her was really a reform for me. I realized that I can't deny my attraction towards women anymore and have to do something about it.
 

kafuka

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I cast another 49 unchanging.
I asked What can I do to get rid of the excessive heat in my body? I think I couldn't get a better answer for it. 49 takes the image of conflict between fire and water. Fire and water destroy each other so what I need to do is to build more body fluids and blood that will extinguish the fire.
 

Trojina

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Lise's summary of the pair from my old printout

Calibrating

49 - Overturn the obsolete
50 - Make a correct situation (and a correct fate


I've checked and I have no other 49uc in my journal. I've got the feeling I may have already said, I've never found 49 to be earth shattering....just something becomes remade all by itself. Yasmin's experiences at the start of the thread are much more defined than mine.

Hilary said of this pair in her book


Radical Change forms a pair with Hexagram 50, the vessel:

'Radical Change puts away the old; the Vessel grasps renewal.'

Before you can found the new, you must remove the old. You may need to make deeper changes than you imagined.


Wing from the 'I Ching Workbook' says of 49uc

A struggle is occurring between the component trigrams. TUI, satisfaction, in the upper trigram, is being invaded by the intelligent upward movement of LI, clarity, below. In a static form the time of CHANGING suggests that although you may not know what to do, you know that something must be done. Your best course is to alert yourself by paying careful attention to the shifting moods of those around you. Take stock of the general feelings running throughout society. This may help you determine your own personal imperatives and the support you can expect in carrying them out.


Hmm well yes if your question involves society and others in a political sense.....but my own experience, as already related has been 49 as an organic change, a change not designed or planned. But that is all I have known so far personally. Some great experiences of 49uc were given by Yasmin and others at the beginning of the thread.
 

Trojina

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BTW we have the 49uc thread here and we have the 51uc thread which was started a while back and has happily arrived at naked buttocks :)

Both 49uc thread and the 51uc thread was started by not me/someone else so if anyone would like to start the 50uc thread that would be nice and relaxing for me ....no pressure


:flirt:
 

Owlietta

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An hour ago on the commuter train, a young foreign beggar went around asking for money. I said no, as usual.
I was sitting there snacking on salami slices and bread, and he motioned to me for food.
"Of course", I said. I had a giant packagae of salami that I bought for half price, so why not share. I gave him a handful of salami slices, at least 10. He ate one immediately and nodded thankfully, then went back to begging in the train.

There are an awful lot of beggars here, and I never give them money. I hear a lot about how they want money and don't care about food. I'm a cynic but not that cynical. But I was curious afterward, so I asked "I gave salami slices to the guy on the train. How did that go?" and received 49 unchanging.

Just thought I'd share. :)
 

Trojina

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Interesting. So as we want to see in these threads how unchanging casts played out for people can you give us any idea of what the 49uc was saying for you here ? I think you are the only one who would know in this situation.

I recently also asked about a beggar who's condition worried me. We all come across beggars in our daily lives, if we live in cities especially, and we all have to figure what to do when encountering one because our feelings become involved yet we don't want to be scammed either. So any idea of what this answer meant for you here ?
 

Owlietta

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I was hoping one of you would tell me what it meant! ;)

At first take, it looked like a general, generic, positive result. This wasn't any big deal to me, not meant to be deep. I just thought would be interesting to ask about the giving away of deli slices to the beggar on the train. Whenever I ask anything small-scale or trivial, I expect to get something that ties in to the question, no matter how trivial. The answer seemed mysterious, until I read Karcher's interpretation.

Karcher mentions getting rid of things that have gotten old and unusable.

What I haven't mentioned yet, is that the giant package of salami was half price because it's about to expire in 2 days. I was honestly having a little anxiety about whether I could consume it all, and I hate throwing food away. Can't get anything past the i-ching. It knows the real reason why I was so glad to give away a big stack of the deli slices. :)

The question was fairly open ended, and so I interpret the answer as "how did that go..." for me. Or maybe even "how did that go..."for the salami slices.
 

Trojina

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I was hoping one of you would tell me what it meant!


No, the place for people being told 'what it meant' is Shared Readings. ;)...that is the place where people get to mull over with you what your reading may have meant is really shared readings. Here we are more sort of sharing insights into what an unchanging casting did mean for us. Well I'm not sure you know what it meant and neither do I so the case of 49 and the salami will remain a mystery. But if you get any more ideas about it let us know.

Oh

Karcher mentions getting rid of things that have gotten old and unusable.

yes and 49 is about shedding skins and salami is skin more or less I think. I think I've had 49 for new clothes/shoes at times.
 
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deflatormouse

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Re: a recent change circle thread, I wanted to offer another 49 unchanging reading that I do not feel predicted or otherwise indicated the occurrence of a "radical change".

As many folks are probably aware, early forms of the titular character of 49 (革 ge) depict an animal skin, and some translators interpret the character to mean "leather" or something along these lines rather than "change". In the context of the line texts, particularly the image of 革面 ("leather face" or "change face" - often understood as a "mask"), I find this sensible, although others may be more inclined to subordinate the line texts to a ��*義 or 'core philosophy' of each hexagram overall contextually.

So this idea of a costume suggests associations of a performance, a bit of theatre, a 'stage-of-space' perspective, etc.

Here is my most recent 49 uc reading. I asked Yi, "What are my interests?" To clarify, this was in the sense of passions, hobbies, curiosities, etc, rather than stake or claim.

I understood 革 in this case to refer to identity, and experimenting with identity as though trying on different hats, which rings true for me. The unchangingness perhaps alluding to a concept of a 'fixed identity' that may be false or fictitious. Persona, not personality. I thought of Howard Marks, the dope smuggler, and his hundreds of incognito passport photos. I am certainly interested in that stuff.

What the reading effectively pointed out to me was that I was effectively asking, "who am I?" and seeking to define this according to the parameter of my interests: what I like, what I do. I had at one time sworn off this kind of self-definition and tugged at it for some time as an uncomfortable but necessary noose, only to ask the Yijing to please define me thus- coming full circle ("revolution"). This might be understood as a process of change, like any other process. But was more of a gradual process (53!) than a major upheaval- swearing off a fixed identity only to find doing so more of an inhibition than the identity so-called-fictions ever were, and a lot less fun besides. But I don't think the reading was directing my attention to the process as much as the question, the request for a label. I am much more interested in the voluminous discourse on identity than in transcending any idea of a "self", and really, I always was. No apologies for that, and more to the point, nothing radically new or different. I've always defined myself in part according to the hats I wear. The hats may change, but that part stays the same.
 

steve

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I had to put my input in, I received hexagram 49 a couple of months before Xmas. It was a pretty crazy time to be honest not a lot of fun really. However always a learning curve, I like Hillarys comment on what will you replace the old with. To me this hexagram is like going through a washing machine and you can either come out all fresh and new or the item of clothing will have holes in it. No matter what, you will change or the situation will. for good or bad. It seems that's either a lot better or much worse however this will be up to you.
It appears you come to a climax and a change is forced or like a stick bending and bending until it snaps and becomes two new sticks.

That's my impression at least

Steve
 

Viru10

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2 pretty straightforward readings.

My grandfather passed away recently in India (during the pandemic). My father wanted to fly back to perform the last rites but we thought it was too risky. He packed his bags the same night he found out and got ready to fly in the morning. I asked what I need to know about my dad's trip? 49uc. He changed his mind the next day and decided to wait until after covid.

Companies in my industry will often send out tests to job applicants as a way of determining skill level. The tests can be involved and take upwards of 10-20 hours. I was given 10 days to finish a pretty involved test for a new job, but since I was crunching at my current job I had no free time. I asked how should I proceed? 49uc. In my mind I saw someone flipping a table, like in the meme. I decided to tell them (diplomatically) that I am stretched for time and wouldn't be able to complete the test, but had finished a few things that I could show them (I finished maybe 30% of it to show). After a waiting the recruiter got back and said, while it is against the normal policy, they would be willing to make an exception given the circumstances. They eventually liked the 30% I was able to do and I made it to the next round of the interview. The advice for 49uc here was to essentially 'revolt' against the normal way of doing things.
 

Trojina

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Sorry to hear about your grandfather. What a shame your father couldn't go.

Good reading examples though.
 
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jelzebelle

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Hello, I am new. I came across this thread from the “master” unchanging list and I found a lot of the information in here useful with respect to my own reading where I threw 49UC, and thought I would share it for posterity.

I met a guy briefly and he was quite attracted to me. I am about his age, but like many men, he tends to date younger women. He was quite surprised when he found out my age (and I’m ashamed to say it’s something I’m a bit vain and personally attached to I guess, what woman wouldn’t be). We talked/texted for weeks non-stop and seemed to get along famously. The next time we met, I didn’t put too much effort into my appearance as I did when I first saw him, since we were intending to hang out at my place and I didn’t want to look like I was too overdone.

I could tell he wasn’t very impressed as he commented that I looked much older than he remembered and on a bunch of other things making me feel completely self-conscious and like I was a major disappointment. Obviously nothing happened or came to fruition since I thought he had poor manners and he simply was no longer attracted to me, apparently.

I asked about the situation and got 49UC which I think is pretty apt. Things dispersing/evaporating: his feelings of attraction or original view of me, my feelings that he liked me for who I was inside and found me attractive, my perception of myself looking younger…frankly I felt quite ugly afterwards, which is rare for me.

I always just associated it with a dissolution of some paradigm or overarching perception.

The posts upthread which mentioned “getting rid of that which is old” and “leathery” skin were quite literal in this sense and REALLY STUNG lol. Not exactly what I wanted to read. But I was still amazed at how accurate, once I put aside my silly vanity and bruised ego.

thanks everyone for this great thread!
 
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