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Family dynamics continued...

Tohpol

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Hi guys,

I'm in a bit of a mess. Can't think objectively. And could REALLY use some help. Not sure if I'm coming or going actually. I've talked about this briefly in the past but it's returning again.

I also asked the Yi whether it was a good idea to stay where I was and I either misread the readings or this is something that needs to happen. Many of them makes so little sense I was questioning the validity of the whole thing at one point.

I don't expect anyone to go hex by hex on this one, as there is a lot. But I want to give you the full picture - so feel free to pick and choose some objective appraisals would be much appreciated (Rosada - get back here ;) )

So, it's like this: My family are good, kind people. They are also a bit messed up like many of us - but they are basically descent people. My mother and father did their best bringing me up and like any parent, they unconsciously molded me, at a young age, to their way of thinking with all the wishes and desires that go with it - Positive and negative. My own responsibility also plays a big part in my relationship with them now. For whatever reason, rightly or wrongly I still have a lot of anger towards them which I can't seem to shift. Christmas is coming and I automatically booked a ticket to see them as I do each year. Then, I decided to change my plans just under two weeks before the departure just feeling like I couldn't handle being up there. Buttons would be pressed and I'd end up getting angry as I usually do.

I emailed my mother to say I wouldn't be coming after all and that I'd postpone the visit for April as I needed time for myself after having a very difficult year. They make the point that they also had a difficult year with little input from me - so maybe I was letting this resentment take over...(looking back I've been more and more distant as I discover more about my psychology and theirs. It takes time to adjust seeing your parents in a new light). Then I received an email back basically laying on the guilt and saying that they are angry and hurt. Apparently, they wanted to have a "special" talk about their future plans but they declined to say exactly what it was about.

It was from the IC that I actually decided to change direction! *Sigh* trying to do the right thing. Oviosuly I messed up somewhere. or maybe this is all part of the deal - who knows?

So, here are the questions - feel free to interpret all or one as you like. I can't seem to make head or tail of anything. It's like all my reasoning faculties have shut down.

How do I respond to the email?

25.2 > 10

I see it as: Don't complicate things. hold back on that for now.

What should I do about all this?

52 unchanging

Quiet your mind for starters.

I guess I should keep the original schedule and go and visit them?

6 unchanging

You are in conflict in your mind or the trip would be full of conflict - not sure.

How do you propose I resolve this?

11.1 > 46

Peacably. Take action, but in the right way. Hmm.

Can you comment on whether it's a good idea to continue with my plans not to go?

27 unchanging

Nourish them or myself?

Have I been selfish?

24.1.2.3.6 > 18

Yup. But you can get back on track by working on yourself.

How about talking it through on the phone?

1.1.6 > 28

Not yet.

Ok, but I think I have been selfish and I need to express that at least. Comment?

35.2.4.5 > 59

progress is being made but take it step by step..

Surely, I'm going to have to face the music and go up there?

42.2.4.6 > 58

Seems like a "yes" to me but that seems to contradict the above.

Now, I understand that's a lot. Any summary views would be greatly appreciated. keeping inn mind the naughty, quick-fire nature of these questions - not a good idea as a general rule. But as you guys know, family can push your buttons like nothing else...

Big thanks in advance,

Topal
:bag:
 
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martin

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* How do I respond to the email? 25.2 > 10

Express yourself sincerely, regardless of the effect it might have on your parents. Just be sincere.


* What should I do about all this? 52 unchanging

Be alone with yourself.


* I guess I should keep the original schedule and go and visit them? 6 unchanging

Looks like it's too difficult now.


* How do you propose I resolve this? 11.1 > 46

It's complicated, connected underground to many things. It has deep roots. Don't try to rush it. Give it time.


* Can you comment on whether it's a good idea to continue with my plans not to go? 27 unchanging

Whatever nourishes you now, is best. Care for yourself.


* Have I been selfish? 24.1.2.3.6 > 18

Self-ish only in the sense that you returned to yourself. :)


* How about talking it through on the phone? 1.1.6 > 28

Later perhaps, looks like the situation is too tense now.


* Ok, but I think I have been selfish and I need to express that at least. Comment? 35.2.4.5 > 59

Whatever you want to express, express it. But there is no need to feel guilty.
What happens now is as natural and unavoidable as the rising sun.


* Surely, I'm going to have to face the music and go up there? 42.2.4.6 > 58

When you are ready. Again, no need to feel guilty, there is nothing that you HAVE to do.
 

Tohpol

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When you are ready. Again, no need to feel guilty, there is nothing that you HAVE to do.

Thanks Martin that was really helpful. I've been re-reading that a few times.

I just can't shake the idea that I'm the one to blame here. I know the theory of psychological dynamics in families and Geeze - my family brought me up well in comparison to many - but there are issues here that have never been resolved. it's not like they are huge issues either but enough to do damage. My sister's more than a basket case than me but she can't even see it. But of course, they don't think they had any influence in that at all.

I'm not sure how these issues can be resolved. I think it was wrong of me to change my plans at the last minute, and I have been less than the dutiful son. They don't know why. My sister and her daughter were obviously on the phone laying on how awful it was that I had decided to do my own thing. Ah, I don't know - I feel like I'm becoming more and more distant with each passing year.

Well hey, I'm Cancerian - it's a big issue for us... :D :rolleyes:

Thanks again Martin.

Topal
 

rosada

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I may have mentioned this before somewhere, but I think it's worth stating again: The planet Pluto is at the last degrees of the sign it's in just now. Pluto is the planet of Life and Death situations. This means the episodes in our lives are all ending with a sence of High Drama. Further more Mars, the planet of energy but also anger, is retrograde in Cancer, your sign, Topal, and also the sign of families in general. So it just makes sence that you would be feeling to back up from a trip home (Mars retro in Cancer) and the family reacting not just with mild disappointment but as if you have broken a Sacred Trust fits in with Pluto. So hopefully knowing this will help alliviate any feelings of guilt you have that had you just run a little bit faster or jumped a little bit higher all would have been warm and cozy with the family. The times are requiring Truth (Pluto is in Sagittarius) or Separation (Mars retrograde) - or War if people get together while refusing to admit Truth (Mars in Cancer - my country right or wrong/ Father and Mother are right even when they are wrong.).

I think 52. is a strong suggestion that you not do anything right away, so that you are not just reacting to the guilt trips. Then when things calm down you may find you see exactly what to do - or not do. I once got a letter from my father very carefully outlining all the things I had done wrong in the past and the doom I was headed for. At first I felt obligated to explain myself, beg forgiveness, and vow to join a convent. But after I'd typed out about twenty pages with no end in sight I had an inspiration. I emailed him: DON'T HAVE A COW, DAD!!! He never answered the email, and the next time - several years later - he tried picking at me, I could see that it was his own life's misery driving him, and I could listen and guide the conversation without getting sucked in. Don't know if this is of any use in your situation, but I sure feel it not only doesn't do you any good to be the whipping boy, it doesn't do your family's soul any good to mistreat you.
 
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martin

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Hmm, I'm a Cancer too (how many Cancers are there on this forum? :D) and it does feel heavy sometimes. Mars? And Pluto will soon oppose my Sun! :eek:

Anyway, good that you mention it, Rosada. It often helped me to know that the planets were 'doing something', it made it easier to understand what was happening, and easier to deal with it.
And I wish you good luck with this, Topal. I know from my own experience that it can be tough if people are playing guilt games, even if you recognize that dynamic.
 

willowfox

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How do I respond to the email?

25.2 > 10

Just go ahead and respond in a very careful way, don't expect any issues to be sorted out at the moment, just be friendly and open, and make no demands.

What should I do about all this?

52 unchanging

There is really nothing you can do about the situation, so no point in worrying about it but it does suggest that you let the past go as it is gone. So live in the moment. This suggests that you stay where you are, no visits this year

I guess I should keep the original schedule and go and visit them?

6 unchanging

Conflict, going there in person suggests trouble, and besides Hex 52 has told you to stay still and make no visit. Read the judgement again; it tells you not to go through with the plan to visit and do not travel.

How do you propose I resolve this?

11.1 > 46

You are family and oneday you will be able to discuss things with your father but the time is not right and you still have to learn the lesson of Hex 52 to forgive and forget the past.

Can you comment on whether it's a good idea to continue with my plans not to go?

27 unchanging

It says to look after yourself, do your own thing, and that it is a very good idea NOT to go. The other Hexs are telling you the same thing here.

Have I been selfish?

24.1.2.3.6 > 18

Perhaps more a case of being pig headed and stubborn, refusing to let the past die, you keep reliving it when you should just move on instead, so it is up to you to sort the issue out in your head. A man can make problems but he is also capable of fixing those problems himself.

How about talking it through on the phone?

1.1.6 > 28

Quite correct, not yet! The other Hexs have told you that the time is not right yet as you have personal issues that you must sort out before you can visit them, like a major change in attitude.

Ok, but I think I have been selfish and I need to express that at least. Comment?

35.2.4.5 > 59

Again, when the time is right!

Surely, I'm going to have to face the music and go up there?

42.2.4.6 > 58

Yes, you are but not yet! You still have issues of the mind to sort out before you go otherwise you will mess up again. You must learn the lesson of letting go before you can truly be a part of your family.
 

pixiestix

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Hi Topal,

I know what you mean when you say you can't think objectively. I think it can be hard when you are emotionally involved.

I can really relate to what Rosada wrote about what is happening astrologically, that makes a lot of sense. It seems to apply itself to your circumstances very well. Perhaps you need to wait a little longer for the planets to move on.

Truth can sometimes be a very difficult and sensitive thing to have to deal with, especially as people can feel that they are being made to take the full weight of the responsibility for a situation, when in actual fact it is much more complex and more individuals are involved.

It sounds promising that you know where the problems lie, and that they are not such big issues. It makes it sound like it will not be too difficult to sort, if it is handles in a delicate way. I get the feeling you need these problems to be sorted so that you can move forward. Perhaps everything will fall into place naturally once everyone is in a better space with the issues that you feel the family have.

I can understand your parents hurt and disappointment at you cancelling your trip. Perhaps they were hoping that your visit would be a good time to have a "special" talk. Perhaps you could phone your parents and explain that you too have had a difficult year, and perhaps don't feel up to it at the moment, but look forward to a visit in April.

The only thing that I can say about parents is that it is the toughest job in the world. Children don't come with an instruction manual, and I don't think that the 'perfect parent' exists. I think that all parents try to do their best, with whatever they have within themselves.

I had a lot of issues with my Mum, and she died with them unresolved. I found that very hard, and I too was very angry. I have children of my own, so I know how hard it can be. I like to believe that my Mum did what she thought was for the best for us, in very difficult circumstances. I have learned to forgive her and not be so hard on her, she was only human, like me! I like to think about the positive that she brought to my life too. It just makes things a little easier to deal with.

From all the other wonderful replies that you have had, it sounds as though the dust needs to settle a little before any communication can move forward and be received in a positive way. Truth and sincerity can only be a good thing.

Sorry I can't really offer any insight from an I Ching point of view....I am so new to this that I don't feel brave enough yet to write my opinion!

Wishing you well sorting it all out.
 

Tohpol

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Thanks for your insights Rosada - very useful as ever. I sure hadn't thought of the planetary aspects to all this. Very interesting. And your: "Don't have a cow Dad!" is priceless :rofl:

And WF - thank you for your rendering of each line. As Martin, it added another dimension and made me smile at the details. You made it very clear and unequivocal. Reading it this morning helped me draw back. I do wonder how I can let go of the past. They are so deep these roots. But I must somehow.

I did another reading this morning. I didn't reply last night though I did write a huge response which I didn't send! (received 62.5.6) However, I'll have to reply with something. So, I wrote a brief, concilliatory (though not yielding) response a hour ago and asked if this was ok to send: 18 unchanging. Which is kinda ambiguous.Suggests I work on it some more perhaps. It's still a little ambiguous as to whether this email is "safe" to send. So, I commented: "It's necessary I send a response." And I received the
17.3.4 > 49

Which I guess means let things happen naturally, but remain steadfast, persevere in doing what's right. According to Martin on the "Memorizing threads" 17.4 has a connection to Mars in Cancer (house 4), Venus in Capricorn (10) hmmmm. Definitely going inward. Don't seek their approval but be sincere and honest.

Thanks again all, it's all incredibly helpful.

Topal

P.S. Pixiestix, I'd like to get back to you on your thoughtful post but I have to leave for work right now. I shall return! :)
 
M

maremaria

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Hi Topal,
I can relate to everything you said! Many of your questions are mines too. Those power games parents play (consciously or unconsciously) are very hard. But I guess it is our decision to stay and play or refuse to continue playing. When I asked Yi “what is love” this relationship, among others, was in my mind.
Good people,my parents too, and they did also the best they think the could do but this was not really enough for me , I think they could do better. I can understand that inside them they bear their parents and the parents of their parents, but on the other had I think I deserve to feel disappointed from the way the bring me up. There are families where the roles are not clear. Who is the parent and who is the kid? Who needs protection and who is going to give that protection? :confused:

Some random and subjective thoughts

I checked my notes on 6 and found that. “Seen 6 conflict as contending ownership of oneself. Re-arranging the boundaries. Things are not as one “wants”. TOO many “should do” entered in the land of “want to” . The land marks (the boundaries) are not clear. There is an inner conflict, an uncertain situation”
Still haven’t found the way to solve that conflict, but it helps me , when my mind is clear, to think before I act. I try to ask myself If I do the x thing is because I want to or because I “should do” according to the other’s expectations. And this feeling of guilt when I reject the “I should” action is so strong to handle it , but believe me ,after I time it comes easier.

About your 27. IMO ,its closely related to 6. You doubt. You said “Nourish them or myself?” and I think you already know which is the right answer “nourish yourself” But this means that you will not nourish them. And they will be angry, sad , disappointed, hurt by you. In a word (or better in a icon) :rant: And I think you know it , that’ s why , the way I see it, your next question is “have I been selfish ?” I liked Martin’s answer “Self-ish only in the sense that you returned to yourself”
”return to your town to fix what was spoiled” How can that be selfish :confused:

Tough decisions and situations, Topal. I know that. But I see a good thing in your post. That you doubt whether the way you react and function in that relationship in the past, is the right one or not.

I live in a small appartment. I love it because every little thing in there, is according to my taste. I had some gifts that I didn't like. It was diffucult in the begining not to put those presents because I would hurt the givers feelings. But then it wouldn't be "my home". The door are open we I fell like. The doors are closed when I want to be alone. And no everybody is allowed to enter. They are roules. Is that Selfish ?
With my life and relationships is more diffucult, but they said that it can be done.

Have an interesting trip towards your town. Nourish yourself well .!It's a long trip. And Enjoy its step.

Wish you the best,
Maria
 

Tohpol

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It sounds promising that you know where the problems lie, and that they are not such big issues. It makes it sound like it will not be too difficult to sort, if it is handles in a delicate way. I get the feeling you need these problems to be sorted so that you can move forward. Perhaps everything will fall into place naturally once everyone is in a better space with the issues that you feel the family have.

I can understand your parents hurt and disappointment at you cancelling your trip. Perhaps they were hoping that your visit would be a good time to have a "special" talk. Perhaps you could phone your parents and explain that you too have had a difficult year, and perhaps don't feel up to it at the moment, but look forward to a visit in April.

I think you are so right about not being able to move forward. it is like an acid eating a away at any kind of equilibrium. I think this could be a good starting point for better communication. Yes, it's understandable but not acceptable to load on the guilt especially as it was never a problem before. I think it's symptomatic of various issues needing to be dealt with by all.

The only thing that I can say about parents is that it is the toughest job in the world. Children don't come with an instruction manual, and I don't think that the 'perfect parent' exists. I think that all parents try to do their best, with whatever they have within themselves.

I had a lot of issues with my Mum, and she died with them unresolved. I found that very hard, and I too was very angry. I have children of my own, so I know how hard it can be. I like to believe that my Mum did what she thought was for the best for us, in very difficult circumstances. I have learned to forgive her and not be so hard on her, she was only human, like me! I like to think about the positive that she brought to my life too. It just makes things a little easier to deal with.

From all the other wonderful replies that you have had, it sounds as though the dust needs to settle a little before any communication can move forward and be received in a positive way. Truth and sincerity can only be a good thing.

Sorry I can't really offer any insight from an I Ching point of view....I am so new to this that I don't feel brave enough yet to write my opinion!
Wishing you well sorting it all out.

I think that is something to bear in mind too. Parenting is incredibly difficult - especially in this present world in which we live. So, I intend to tread carefully but not to guild the Lilly either. I think if we can all come half way there's reason to be hopeful. Sincerity yes. Gentle but firm. Well, the dust hasn't really been allowed to settle as my mother was wanting a reply and obviously chomping at the bit for a fuller rely than "received your mail - will respond when I have time after work." I could almost feel her impatience. Or maybe that's a projection.

Anyhow, I wrote a very careful email and chopped it in half for brevity and I think - I hope it will start the ball rolling. I don't think she'll accept anything right now and it may even cause a veritable storm but at least I've spoken my mind as well as highlighting my own shortcomings. Yeah, reaching some kind of resolution is important as you've indicated. I'm quite sure your mother did her best as you say.

I love my parents and respect them, but these are deep rooted things that need to be understood and exorcised. That is quite a process.

Greatly appreciate your thoughts PixieStix.

Topal
 

Tohpol

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I live in a small appartment. I love it because every little thing in there, is according to my taste. I had some gifts that I didn't like. It was diffucult in the begining not to put those presents because I would hurt the givers feelings. But then it wouldn't be "my home". The door are open we I fell like. The doors are closed when I want to be alone. And no everybody is allowed to enter. They are roules. Is that Selfish ?
With my life and relationships is more diffucult, but they said that it can be done.

Have an interesting trip towards your town. Nourish yourself well .!It's a long trip. And Enjoy its step.

Wish you the best,
Maria

Hi Maria,

Loved this post. Lot to think about. Especially about the idea of selfishness. Yes, I'm fixing myself in order to be able to properly communicate and share. This is what I wrote in my email tonight among other things. Guilt is such a waste of energy - especially when it's manipulated out of you. However, because I value my independence so much I know I can be selfish....:footinmouth: Gotta get the balance...Gotta get the balance...:brickwall:

I'll look into that "should do" /"want to" dyamic too! Good exercise.

Well, it should be an interesting next few weeks. I get the nasty feeling that there's another hell-storm brewing....:eek:uch:

Thanks again for your thoughts and good luck to you in this respect too.

Topal
 

pixiestix

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I think that is something to bear in mind too. Parenting is incredibly difficult - especially in this present world in which we live. So, I intend to tread carefully but not to guild the Lilly either. I think if we can all come half way there's reason to be hopeful. Sincerity yes. Gentle but firm. Well, the dust hasn't really been allowed to settle as my mother was wanting a reply and obviously chomping at the bit for a fuller rely than "received your mail - will respond when I have time after work." I could almost feel her impatience. Or maybe that's a projection.

Anyhow, I wrote a very careful email and chopped it in half for brevity and I think - I hope it will start the ball rolling. I don't think she'll accept anything right now and it may even cause a veritable storm but at least I've spoken my mind as well as highlighting my own shortcomings. Yeah, reaching some kind of resolution is important as you've indicated. I'm quite sure your mother did her best as you say.

I love my parents and respect them, but these are deep rooted things that need to be understood and exorcised. That is quite a process.

Greatly appreciate your thoughts PixieStix.

Topal

Just a very quick reply from me, as I am on my way out! 101 Christmas things to do!

I am glad that you have written to your Mum and started the ball rolling. I think you are right in that both parties need to find some middle ground and meet half way. Perhaps your Mum might be upset initially, but when she calms down, I am sure she will see that this is an opportunity to move the situation forward in a positive direction.

You wrote that you could almost feel your mother's impatience at receiving your e-mail. Well I thought I would share something with you that I tell my children when they feel I nag or get on their case, as they would put it. I look them straight in the eyes and tell them that I didn't have children so that I could nag them and try to make their lives miserable. (I have a husband for that! :rofl: Only joking!!) I do it because I care and I want the best for them. I don't want to see them get hurt. I see my job as preparing and equiping them for life, so that they can be independent beings. A mother has a very close bond to her children, and it is hard to let go of that sometimes. I am sure that this is what your mother is feeling. She just wants to sort things out for the best, and is perhaps pushing a little, as we mother do, because she loves you.

Anyway, everything is set in motion now, you just have to see how it opens out before you.

I truly wish you well.
 
J

jesed

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Hi Topal

Just in case the comment could be useful

I would suggest another aproach to your situation. many times, what can be seen as some practical issue carries within heavy deep issues. In those cases, I have find useful to start with the more general aspect... and only when it is clarify, move forward more detailed or practical aspects.

So, I would suggest the following dialogue:

1.- General Diagnosis for the relation between my parents and I
2.- Parent's position toward the relation
3.- My position toward the relation
4.- Concrete diagnosis for the situation of gathering together in Xrimas
5.- Deep causes of this concrete situation
6.- Best thing for me to do in order to harmonize my familiar life

Best wishes
 

Tohpol

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Hi Topal

Just in case the comment could be useful

I would suggest another aproach to your situation. many times, what can be seen as some practical issue carries within heavy deep issues. In those cases, I have find useful to start with the more general aspect... and only when it is clarify, move forward more detailed or practical aspects.

So, I would suggest the following dialogue:

1.- General Diagnosis for the relation between my parents and I
2.- Parent's position toward the relation
3.- My position toward the relation
4.- Concrete diagnosis for the situation of gathering together in Xrimas
5.- Deep causes of this concrete situation
6.- Best thing for me to do in order to harmonize my familiar life

Best wishes


Hi Jesed,

And very sensible your system is too. Your suggestions are excellent, though things have already been said and digested - or in the process of - for this particular approach to take place. I do like your approach though Jesed - it covers all the bases in a very thorough way. I must remember to use it more often.

Right now, I followed advice from IC and suggestions here and it seems to be ok....It's very quiet. "Keeping the peace" type quiet, but that's ok. Neither parents understood what I was trying to say - or didn't want to understand. But it doesn't matter. Things are shifting. I'll visit them about 3-4 months. I think family life will be better. I said what needed to be said but I'm not going to push it any further.

I asked the IC what my parents were thinking/feeling and got hex 6 and a coupla lines which suggested that they thought they didn't want to lose the relationship we had and that it was important to move on. I think the bridges are built but as my Dad said, we just have to cross them! Nice. That crossing will come from a different appraisal of the situation than mine, but that's ok. The point is to make the effort which we'll do I think.

I wonder if the astrological influences are easing now...

Thanks again,

Topal
 

mudpie

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Topal, I wish you the best, and a peaceful holiday season. It was not an easy decision to make. and you are not selfish, just a young man who needs to cross this river. sometimes when the water is too rough, it is best to wait. I've been there.

If it is any help, in my experience the bridges Do get crossed, sometimes first (and sometimes maybe even only) in our own hearts. at a certain point in time, I noticed that my family of origin became interesting, rather than dangerous to my emotional well-being. BUt it did take time, and sometimes it took distance (to feel sane). God Bless.
 

Tohpol

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Topal, I wish you the best, and a peaceful holiday season. It was not an easy decision to make. and you are not selfish, just a young man who needs to cross this river. sometimes when the water is too rough, it is best to wait. I've been there.

If it is any help, in my experience the bridges Do get crossed, sometimes first (and sometimes maybe even only) in our own hearts. at a certain point in time, I noticed that my family of origin became interesting, rather than dangerous to my emotional well-being. BUt it did take time, and sometimes it took distance (to feel sane). God Bless.


Thank you for kind words Listener.

As you say, I think this one is a "heart crossing" situation. Which is ok. Just being able to say what I had to say was very healing - despite the guilt in doing so. Timing perhaps wasn't the best - but things rarely reach that perfect timing we are so often looking for. And that's the thing I'm learning right now. Stopping the relentless drive forward manifesting in many ways. One of the hardest things is to let go. Let go of family demons; let go of the past; of ideas and conceptions of yourself; of wanting push forward and do things before the time is right - many things. As Pixiestix mentions, (love that name lol) they were doing their best and I have a lot to thank them for.

Presently, feeling more sane and equipping the boat with essentials...:D

Topal
 

luz

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Hi Topal,

I also want to wish you good luck on this.

I suppose it's not much use to join everybody in saying 'they did their best', 'you must let go'. It's not easy to just let go, I know that. I know how it is.

And it's also not easy to 'do your best' as a parent. I guess we all do our best with the "under the circumstances" qualifier. The circumstances being also, in part, who we are. As a mother, I know I do my best but I know I could do better but sometimes only by going very much against my nature and that is almost impossible for me. I guess this is to say: even if it doesn't look like they did their best, they did.

And our best is rarely good enough. I seldom find a person that is fully satisfied with the job their parents did. Well, a person of my generation and younger, in any case. I can't really imagine anybody from my parents' generation complaining about their parents and how they ruined their lives. It seems that people from previous generations were a bit harder on themselves, I guess :D.

I just deleted two huge paragraphs and spared you from having to read all that nonsense. I guess all I want to say is that it's great you have told them how you feel because that is a huge step towards letting go.

Best wishes,
 

Tohpol

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Hi Topal,

I also want to wish you good luck on this.

I suppose it's not much use to join everybody in saying 'they did their best', 'you must let go'. It's not easy to just let go, I know that. I know how it is.

And it's also not easy to 'do your best' as a parent. I guess we all do our best with the "under the circumstances" qualifier. The circumstances being also, in part, who we are. As a mother, I know I do my best but I know I could do better but sometimes only by going very much against my nature and that is almost impossible for me. I guess this is to say: even if it doesn't look like they did their best, they did.

And our best is rarely good enough. I seldom find a person that is fully satisfied with the job their parents did. Well, a person of my generation and younger, in any case. I can't really imagine anybody from my parents' generation complaining about their parents and how they ruined their lives. It seems that people from previous generations were a bit harder on themselves, I guess :D.

I just deleted two huge paragraphs and spared you from having to read all that nonsense. I guess all I want to say is that it's great you have told them how you feel because that is a huge step towards letting go.

Best wishes,


Thank you LA - appreciate your thoughts. Oh, I would have enjoyed reading your deleted paragraphs. :confused::D

Anyhow, you make an excellent point about the generation thing. My parents may sometimes pay lip service to the idea that the psychology of their parents may have actually influenced them, but it is not really understood - not in depth. It was like..."Can't mope around and whine about things got to get on...can't be fussing." And of course, many did just that often with great courage but at a great cost too. The effects of denying or not understanding part of ourselves will surface at some point or it will fester and reap havoc one way or another. But it will not be denied, not in the end.

I think social and cultural perspectives play a big part in that, sure. We live in very different times now - highly intense and complicated times. My father's childhood was simpler yes, but much tougher, in an external, physical sense. Same with my mother. I think now the inner self is assailed with much more information and complexity than it was then. Or perhaps, the emphasis and input - stimulation - just wasn't as intense as it is now. And the quality of the stimulation has definitely decreased in my view, even though there is more exposure to information and potential assistance for all kinds of ills, psychological or otherwise.

There are no perfect families out there but plenty who think they have one where more objective outsiders might see that there are some major issues going on that are nevertheless, oblivious to all inside that family unit.

Of course, I can't imagine what it must be like to be a mother, but as a bloke, I still think I have pretty strong maternal instincts. :) I'd love to have children actually. But if I don't manage to hit that particular jackpot then I won't be sad. Besides, I can't imagine taking responsibility for a child now, not while I'm trying to sort my life out - still! :rolleyes:

Thanks again.

Topal
 

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