First, consult oracle; next, engage brain

[Sparhawk]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

The point is, what do you believe is the reality behind the answers you're being given? Do you take them seriously or not?<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you talking about Yi answers? Or about requested third party interpretations? If the former, and I only speak for myself, I do take Yi answers very seriously. To put it this way, the times I didn't, I've got smacked by circumstances related to the question. You kind of develop a conditional reflex after a while...

Luis

 

[candid]

Luis, I think that's called, conversation. One point stimulates another's thoughts, adds to the mix, and on and on...

Kts, 60. 1 and 2 > 8, now that's interesting. I've just thought of that as applied to this thread. Not going out the gate is without blame. And, not going out the gate and courtyard brings misfortune. First holding back to gather, then going forward to act or speak. It applied to you for your reading, but it also applies to the nature of this thread's topic, both for the person asking and for the person responding. Your comments are definitely worth something, as much as anyone else's.

 

[kts]

Luis
I was really talking about Yi answers, but of course if we then present these to others for their opinion, either we treat their replies seriously or we're playing games.

And thanks for your comment, Candid.

 

[malka]

Gosh, I'm aware that I could be accused of all the calamities discussed above: At times I've ignored, disagreed with, challenged, and rebuffed assistance I've received here; At times I've expressed sincere gratitude and love for the assistance I've received here; At times I've followed-up my posts with updates as well as twists and turns; At times I've learned and grown and; At times I've remained stuck in my comfortable little hole despite the wisdom shared, thank you very much!

Adult educators have a saying: 8 times, 8 ways. Meaning, it takes people hearing something about eight different times, in at least eight different ways, before they start to get it. It's part of an approach to instructional design work that reminds us to incorporate repetitive exposure to information expressed in a variety of learning styles and formats. e.g. learning is a process ... change happens slowly.

I agree with Rhinda that often we turn to Yi during very tough times, and for this reason I also agree with Dobro, "...perhaps people *do* have the motivation to learn something about the non-evident features of the situation they're in, but their emotions get them so stirred up that they can't take on the lesson the Yi is offering them."

Certainly, I've come to this forum at the times of some of my greatest pain, fear, and anxiety. In these tender times I am not the fully functioning intelligent, capable, wise, intuitive and together woman that I am at other times. My whole story includes all these sides of me, and yes, in those dark hours I'm going to not hear advice, mistake intended assistance, and appear STUPID. I'm not, but I sure can be clueless at times!

Let's remember, Yi is a path not just to learning new information, it's also a path to spiritual development, perhaps even enlightenment. I believe this path requires us to journey into our blind spots, to challenge our learned yet dysfunctional patterns, to have compassion for ourselves and for others, and to walk our individual journey, step by step, towards wholeness and peace.

I'm glad we're able to experience all of this together on this forum. What a great gift Hilary has given us, and the world. And a heartfelt thanks to all of you for the part you play in my journey. Lots of spiritual kudos for you!

Blessings,
Malka

 

[heylise]

Malka,

BEAUTIFUL!!!

LiSe

 

[demitramn]

i second that!
very succinct and lucidly put, Malka

 

[malka]

Thank you! You know, one of the things this forum is helping me to develop is the ability to express myself from my clear, centered and wise place one minute, and then from my vulnerable scared, and anxious place the next. Sounds simple enough, but for me it's not been as natural to do.

 

[dobro p]

Which one's been tougher for you? Expressing what comes from the clarity, or what comes from the vulnerability and anxiety?

 

[malka]

Dobro, neither one is more tough. What is tough, is expressing both sides of myself to the same people.

In other words, my relationships have tended to be ones were either I am the capable one, caring and nurturing for others but there is no room for my fears or needs; or I'm the needy one, where there seems to be no room for my strengths and sparkle to co-exist. Intellectually I understand that I am all of these things all the time, but sustaining intimate relationships where I'm all of me, no matter what the other person's view of me or limitations may be to really see me, well ... this is what I'm working on. Being with all of myself, the strong and the weak.

 

[malka]

P.S. Candid is a real model for me with this. From out here, it seems he flows from sharing some dark and doubtful posts to expressing strength and peace of mind. I'd like to get to that place one day.

 

[candid]

Malka, your next to last post to Dobro made me sit up and really listen. Power balancing in relationships fascinates me. What you said struck a deep chord in me. But more importantly, balancing the extremes and owning up to both, within yourself, is what earns my respect in someone. You've demonstrated this a great deal here, especially more recently. I've been listening with interest.

Your second post just made me

. So much for Alpha-male posturing, huh?

 

[dobro p]

I'm a beta male.

(We try harder.)

ROFL

 

[malka]

Oh my. While my compliment to / observation of Candid still stands, I did not intend to imply that I do not recognize the same quality in others on this forum because I most certainly do! I will not name names for I will surely make a mess of it.

The reason I believe I specifically named Candid was because I once researched a particular hexagram that lead me to an old thread were he discussed a particularly dark period in his life. How I found this thread is a wonder to me, but there my eyes were, reading my own story being told back to me.When that happens it's always a powerful experience. (The power of story to heal.) And then yes, I watched as this male ego (sorry Candid, I'm just playing with you ...) just jumped right back in there, putting forth his competencies, strength and value like all was well with the world. And of course it was all well with the world. It's just that I find the switching of gears in this way not so easy ... the pattern of definition and limitation a habit ... the reality making through other people's eyes a fact of life. I'm learning that keeping my eyes in my own head, knowing who I am as truth, my truth ... and knowing that others' opinions and experiences of me have little to do with me, and yet a lot to do with me because we're relationship beings ... it's all still something I'm exploring and figuring out.

Never really thought about all this in terms of power, but yes. Power is energy, and energy is everything, and so ... differentials of power. BTW Candid, thanks for the compliment. I'm working to allow myself to be my whole complicated sself. Watch out world.

 

[candid]

Power, energy, force, whatever one wishes to call it. I agree, Malka, it's the stuff of this universe. Male ego is fine with me. It is what it is. Just another part of the myth.

I sort of cringed when you mentioned the "tough time" post(s) I'd made awhile ago. But then you helped me to realize that it's these things that have value. It may sound cliché to say, the reason you must suffer is to understand suffering, so that you may in turn help those who suffer. But I believe it's true. However, when it happens it emerges without conscious intentions. I was looking for answers, and I got them.

Knowing when to throw the switch, to reverse our direction, is key. In Bible terms it?s called repentance, but not to be confused with shame. It literally means, to turn around. Or as we here called it ? return. Two Yi lines come to mind. Missing the return: misfortune. And, he who comes too late meets with misfortune. I think it?s like anything else that comes with a little technique and some practice. It?s recognizing the moment of understanding, and then consciously throwing the switch to turn around.

It doesn?t seem to matter whether the imbalance of power is due to something extremely positive or extremely negative. Being hit with sudden good news can be as disruptive as being hit with bad news. Have you ever been in a just a fantastic mood, and ask Yi for input? And then receive the most damnable reading? Come on, you know what I?m talkin about.

And then sometimes you feel like the living dead, and you receive some heroic reading? Always drawing to the center. But I think it gets boring sometimes staying always in the center. So I make waves in my ocean, or is it a tea cup? Keeps life interesting. I think it?s the waves that form our myth.

Have you hugged your myth today?

 

[heylise]

?Knowing when to throw the switch, to reverse our direction, is key. In Bible terms it's called repentance?

The two trigrams of a hexagram are called zhen and hui. Zhen is a vessel like the ding of hex.50, but with the character for divination added, a ?holy? vessel. It is everywhere in the Yi, and usually translated as determination, perseverance, correctness. The lower trigram is more or less the given one can work with, but not easily change. ?Ordained by the gods?.

The upper trigram is called hui, regret or repentance.
Hui is a picture of a mother (a woman with breasts) and something on her head, like branches coming out of it, or according to Wang Hongyuan a feather headdress. She is the teacher, the one who says no, most of the characters with this mother in it have meanings like regret, trouble, to improve, to correct, dark and such.

So the Yi has a lot to do with repentance, ?turn around?.
?The Book of Changes?.

Love this thread, lots of wisdom. And going to hug my myth.

LiSe

 

[dobro p]

It ain't just this thread that's good.

I hang out on four sites regularly. Three of them, one of which is Clarity, deal with what I call wisdom. Of all of them, this site deals with it best. No pretensions mostly, just people sharing personal and public meanings. It probably gets better than this, but I haven't found it. I ought to get out more lol.

 

[malka]

Repentance ... And in Judaism it's called "Teshuva" or To Return to G-d; To Return to Truth. It's the process we are expected to take at this time of year in particular as a preparation for the new year, as a prerequisite to requesting to be written in the book of life for the coming year. It's about making peace, making amends, forgiveness, and all that is truth ... all that is G-d.

Kinda makes that other question comes up for me once again, when we ask Yi a question, who answers? And if as LiSe suggests Yi is actually the process of return, then who speaks must be ... G-d?

 

[candid]

I think not yet answers.

Here?s my question:

If you were to take all 64 hexagrams (meanings/myths) and put them on a wheel, like a Tibetan prayer wheel, and spun them at the speed of light, what would it become?

 

[malka]

Oh, who is "Not Yet?" I think it's more "The Power of Right Now" who answers.

Answer to your question: We'd have the big bang, that dynamic, emergent event we are all playing out ...

 

[candid]

Not yet is the Tao of becoming right now.

Big bang. Interesting answer.

 

[malka]

Not yet and right now bound together is wuwei, yes?

 

[candid]

Honestly, I don?t know. But 64 becomes 1. Before something can be it must be not yet, or potential. As we shape our question and mind to receive, that is not yet, the construct which results in right now. Right now becomes the myth. As a woman births a child, so not yet births right now. 44 ? to beget an heir.

 

[candid]

These 'hexagrams' are so living. Once you see past their linear form they morph from form to form, from one myth incarnate to the next.

One form resonates: the one with meaning to you at that moment, or upon further preponderance. That is why the images are so big! But they?re not just hexagrams. They are 64 parts of the whole. 64 bricks in a house; all bricks existing at the same time.

 

[malka]

Not Yet becomes the Creative, which becomes the Receptive, and leads straight into Difficult Beginnings (considered by some to be the Genesis hexagram.)

Here's another take on Not Yet: In the Hebrew bible, the very first letter is an Aleph -- a silent letter, a letter than makes no sound. Yet the very first word is Beraysheet, translated as "In the Beginning." The belief is that the Aleph is there to represent / remind us that there is something BEFORE the beginning. That something is silence ... it's nothingness .... it's a potential that isn't yet.

 

[re5ga]

There is now, an image on the Astronomy Picture of the Day ( http://antwrp.gfsc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html ) which may well represent the 64 hexagrams being spun at the speed of light.

R.

 

[candid]

Malka, Aleph is very interesting.

Re5ga, the link doesn't work for me here.

 

[re5ga]

Sorry, if I use google on 'astronomy picture' that's the url I receive at top. Because of the 'gov' in there suspect it has to do with national boundaries as I am stateside and you are uk I expect.

 

[candid]

Thanks to our helpful and timid anonymous one, here is the correct URL:

astronomy

Thanks, Anon and Re5ga. Inspiring indeed!

 

[martin]

64 Hexagrams spun at the speed of light??
I would very much like to see that.
But when I click on the link that Re5ga gave my browser says "This page cannot be displayed".
Of course not!
I think I have a very wise browser.

 

[martin]

Wow, that is a beauty!
No comment from my browser this time, only silence ..