Freelance work 28.3,4,6 > 59

[em ching]

Hello,

Not such an emotional one this time
I am doing freelance work for a company. The work itself is taking longer than their estimation, but that may be because I'm new at it.
The last job I did took at least double their stated hours, but that may have also been me being overly cautious about getting it right etc. I want to ask two hours more (eventhough it was probably more than that), but at the same time, would rather they keep using me and miss out on an hour's pay. But then again if I keep under-cutting myself, they'll expect the work quicker. Bit of a catch 22. I have heard most freelancers negotiate. I asked the Yi:

How far can I go? (add 1 hour to their stated time, or (the more realistic) 2 hours)

28.3,4,6 > 59

hex 28 is about being excessive and going the extra mile for something... so maybe it's worth it for the work itself - which is quite enjoyable - and not thinking of the pay? But then they'll keep expecting it of me..
I think it may be saying that I need to forget my ego in this situation (59) to keep the ridgepole (the job) standing?

The third line speaks of excess pressure on the individual - a burden growing (me overworked?) but then the fourth line speaks of 'working for the rescue of the whole' ie. sacrificing myself a bit for the company? And then the sixth line perhaps suggests I don't quite know what I'm up against? That I shouldn't be over-confident or pushy?

So overall is the Yi saying it's better to meet them more than halfway?

Any ideas would be most appreciated
:bows:

 

[steve]

Hi there

I read Lise's take on this and it is different from whilhelms which is interesting i get the feeling she is talking about confidence but I cant imagin her advising over confidence however after reading both i tend to agree with you on meeting them halfway i think i would be sought of confident but not cocky, i get the feeling they will meet you on some levels but not on others.
This hex 28 i always tread carefully with myself i dont like the idea of ridgepols breaking haha
but i see 59 as coming to an agreement both party's will be happy

from a business point if they need you then they would probably want you to be happy so possibly it all comes down to one word

"negotiation"

all the best mate , would be interested to see how it goes with all those lines

Steve

 

[Trojina]

Not quite sure I understand the situation...but I take it the nub of the question is how much extra you should ask them for to recompense for your extra hours..should you ask for one extra hour or two. Hmm 28.4 is what stands out most to me as saying just the one hour because its very much a 'don't push your luck' line. I think if you ask and they agree you may then later be tempted to ask again for more again which probably wouldn't be a good move

Then again looking at the reading as a sentence 'excessive dispersion' ? Its like spreading out too much, no boundaries, like the more time you have the longer this task takes.and worse, the more arduous it gets...whats the phrase something like "work expands according to the time allocated to fit it" . Strange pair to have together ..28 and 59 i can't quite grasp it..well 59 is too vaporous to be grasped...a vapourous overloaded roof beam...an overloaded roof beam evaporating ..? Yet if it were all about you setting limits on time and energy etc I'd expect 60 would have come up.

My gut feeling is it would pay to loosen up a little around this task, don't overburden yourself by being too exacting..nor be too exacting with the employer about hours though you could ask for some extra I feel. 28.6 does show at som point this really feels all too much for you BUT its not a mistake for you to feel that, its just part of the situation

 

[em ching]

Strange pair to have together ..28 and 59 i can't quite grasp it..well 59 is too vaporous to be grasped...a vapourous overloaded roof beam...an overloaded roof beam evaporating ..?

Thanks steve and trojan - sorry for my late response!
I have gone with your advice and asked just for one hour more.
I have been sent a bigger job - which I expect to take longer again than my stated hours again. But as they have estimated more hours for this one (than the job I asked an hour extra for) I feel I will this time be able to ask a couple more hours extra (in proportion).

Perhaps that's what the reading was saying - expand the hours in proportion to the pressure or size of the job. (Where the extra hours will be dissolved/camouflaged the bigger the job is, if that makes sense)..
But I'm also aware that I'm lucky to have the position and I do enjoy it - so will also probably meet them a little more than halfway

Thanks very much - we'll see how it progresses!

:bows:

 

[tigerintheboat]

Ridgepoles Braced and Breaking

I am doing freelance work for a company. The work itself is taking longer than their estimation, but that may be because I'm new at it.
The last job I did took at least double their stated hours, but that may have also been me being overly cautious about getting it right etc. I want to ask two hours more (eventhough it was probably more than that), but at the same time, would rather they keep using me and miss out on an hour's pay. But then again if I keep under-cutting myself, they'll expect the work quicker. Bit of a catch 22. I have heard most freelancers negotiate. I asked the Yi:

How far can I go? (add 1 hour to their stated time, or (the more realistic) 2 hours)

28.3,4,6 > 59

I am late to the party, as you have already done it. But I have some reading thoughts, and I have some practical thoughts. Sometimes it takes me a while to get my thoughts cranked up:

In general, companies do not go out of their way to give freelancers comfortable budgets. It is not so much deliberate cruelty as wishful thinking. So the freelancer always has to make his or her case as to why the job is taking longer.

And yes, there are some Simon Legree types who will stop giving you work because you asked for an extra hour. But generally, if you are close to budget and do good and consistent work, they will not begrudge you the extra hour.

When we do the first job for a new client, and we are in the "freelance" role, I make it a point of sticking to the budget, even if we have to eat a considerable number of hours, because repeated work is very important, and there is time for client education later. However, these are almost always jobs that I have bid myself, not jobs where somebody else determined how many hours they would take. So you might consider telling them, after some trust is established, that you will bill them for X hours, since that is the budget, but actually it took X +3, and you would appreciate if they could budget a little more next time.

Now, as for ridgepoles...yours is buckling and being braced at the same time (Lines 3 and 4). For Line 3, I would say that you will have to be careful that they don't take advantage of you. To avoid them dumping a lot of work on you with unrealistic times, consider communicating in a very straightforward manner something like discussed above. If you have good clear communication with your contact at the company, that will help to brace the ridgepole. Hilary's take on Line 4 is that the ridgepole is braced but is at its limits. Nothing more is sustainable. So be careful about how much you agree to take on.

Now Line 6, where you are in over your head... Is this in the amount of work you have agreed to take on, or with your negotiating skill pitted against the Company, or in your ability to get fairly paid? There is no blame here; you need the work, and are doing your best. Perhaps it is just the general David and Goliath relationship of the modern corporation and the freelancer!

(Sure seems like too much drama for a question about whether to bill an extra hour or two!)

Tiger

 

[em ching]

Hi tiger - thanks very much for the practical advice!

When we do the first job for a new client, and we are in the "freelance" role, I make it a point of sticking to the budget, even if we have to eat a considerable number of hours, because repeated work is very important, and there is time for client education later.

- Yes that's probably wisest for me at the moment.
Eventhough these jobs are taking longer, I'd rather keep getting them for the sake of a couple more hours work unpaid.

I will keep it in mind though that there may come a 28-type point... so maybe i will mention it now, just so they understand why I'm adding an hour or two... or maybe I'll keep schtum for now... I don't know exactly...

We'll see how it goes

:bows: