Gall stone removal hex 52

[butterfly spider]

I am not usually ill
However I have a large gallstone and was admitted to hospital with severe pains in my stomach
It is a gallstone (quite large). I'm OK now the pain has gone and I have had 2 days resting. I am not worried and it is strange that just when I had managed to learn to say no, prioritise and calm this should happen - almost like a shock telling me that my body was complaining....

The consultant says it is up to me about removal - pros and cons. My own instinct is try anything first but using my phone did a casting about which way I should proceed.....

I got 52 unchanging

I am not asking for a yes or no - that is unfair to ask anyone but I am getting the feeling the I Ching is saying no. At least not yet time for stillness.

 

[Trojina]

It's a fairly routine operation and a very common one. All it is is a little bag that squirts bile out when you eat fat. Having stones there means the gall bladder squeezes against them and hurts. However having a big stone is much safer than having small ones because small ones can get out and lodge in the pancreas and cause lots of trouble...at least big ones can't get out. However I think you can get infection at times. You can live without a gall bladder quuite happily so it's no big deal to have it out...but your reading of 52uc seems to suggest there isn't much you need to do right now so why not just wait and see.

Did you eat a meal heavy in fat before the pain ? That is what usually triggers it, so if you avoid fat as far as possible...ie don't eat high fat things you may be okay. That's why the surgeon is leaving it up to you. If you have no further symptoms and there is no reason to think there's any danger perhaps you can leave it for now ? As the waiting list is quite long however it might be an idea to say 'yes' and then you have the option of turning it down later on.

Apparently American Indians have a high rate of gall stones and it's not clear why.

52uc is pretty clear though in that it is simply asks you to leave it be. You may never have another attack again ....or you may, so all you can do is see how it goes.


Everyone I have spoken to who has had it removed said it was no big deal and they felt better after so personally I wouldn't bother with so called alternatives. One reason being is there are a load of new agey jerks on the internet with zilch medical knowledge who promise they can get rid of them but of course you won't know if they have gone unless you have another scan. People can have them for years on end and have no symptoms at all. So no one can actually claim they don't have gall stones unless they have had a scan because often the stones just cause no problem. It wouldn't be any good taking someone's word for it that they had gone because they can be 'quiet' for the rest of your life.

Anyway 52uc doesn't seem to encourage action but of course with a medical matter you must make your own choice. I've got lots of little stones and the surgeon urged me to have the gallbladder out. They don't remove the stones, they remove the gallbladder which is about the size of half a lemon.

Actually I did casts for myself on this and shared in CC where I posted a good video which I will link to.

The surgeon told me it could be life threatening for me not to have it out since little stones can go to the liver duct/liver and pancreas and cause infection that can be very dangerous. I've more or less decided to go ahead with surgery...unless of course they vanish by themselves which can happen I've heard but one can't know that without a scan. The surgeon told me she had seen too many people recently in intensive care, and in hospital for a long time because they didn't have the GB out and they wished they had when they had the warning signs.

 

[Trojina]

Here is some factual information that may help. [video=youtube;TvhGL7n-FDM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvhGL7n-FDM&feature=player_embedded#t=2[/video]



Bear in mind how common and unremarkable an 'illness' it is and worry less (52uc). If you are careful not to eat too much fat hopefully you can avoid further bouts of pain.

 

[butterfly spider]

Yes I have been eating lots of cakes and flans and yummy food that I have been cooking for my son (15 and 6ft 2imches). Perhaps I have been eating more than I realise. ..
The consultant is coming round in a bit to ask what I should do - and I think you are right that If they decide to send me home then I should go on the waiting list anyway. The consultant said that if I had a major attack again they would remove it anyway..

So - I think 52 of stillness of not doing anything right now - is sound
Thank you

 

[pocossin]

You have double stones (Ken). Get it out. Don't moralize it. You aren't responsible for it: Gallstone risk increases for females (especially before menopause) and for people near or above 40 years; the condition is more prevalent among both North and South Americans and among those of European descent than among other ethnicities. A lack of melatonin could significantly contribute to gallbladder stones, as melatonin inhibits cholesterol secretion from the gallbladder, enhances the conversion of cholesterol to bile, and is an antioxidant, which is able to reduce oxidative stress to the gallbladder (Wikipedia).

 

[Trojina]

Just remembered as was about to have a glass of apple juice and cider vinegar....this from Tigerintheboat on CC

Trojina, supposedly you can end the pain during an attack by consuming Apple Cider Vinegar (about 1/4 cup) followed by a chaser of the same amount of apple juice.

Fast Pain Relief from a Gallbladder Attack

Drink 1/4 a cup of apple cider vinegar (preferably stored in glass). If possible, also chase it with 8 ounces of apple juice (preferably organic), or mix both together. Most of the pain should disappear within 15 minutes

.

I've yet to find out about that 15 mins as haven't had an attack since then. I like apple juice and cider vinegar anyway and I do think it helpful for digestive issues. Apart from the severe pain of biliary colic, gallstones can cause general indigestion and apple juice and cider vinegar really reduce acidity. Apart from this 'buscopran' which is an over the counter anti spasmodic remedy and strong pain killers are about all there is during an acute attack. I have heard heat such as a bath or a hot water bottle can help but haven't tried it....and hope I won't need to before they get the thing out. I expect to be called up any day now.

The best cider vinegar says 'with the mother' so I have 'biona' organic cider vinegar 'with the mother'. I think the mother is er with the original wotsit. You may know more than me.

 

[butterfly spider]

Because my gall bladder is inflamed yet are waiting but will do it in about 6 weeks so I am on waiting list
Yes - I have two large stones
I was asked if I eat butter cheese milk and chocolate - oh dear yes to all of them in possibly ginormous quantities. My daughter said that I should have asked if local organic butter made a difference...

Thank you

 

[pocossin]

You can live without a gall bladder quite happily so it's no big deal to have it out...

Depending on dietary habits, loss of a gall bladder can be a very big deal. My brother-in-law had to have his gall bladder out and now cannot consume the greens I take his family. Monday I found him cooking the turnip greens I had taken over, but he cannot have any without serious intestinal disorder. The same for zucchini, which I thought would be bland enough for him to have. It's the price that has to be paid for a troublesome gall bladder.

 

[butterfly spider]

The jury is out in this but I have a few weeks (or months grace) to decide

Thank you to you all for your replies and good wishes
It has made me feel more enabled to make decisions
Xx

 

[Trojina]

No of course organic butter won't make any difference as it's the FAT that is the problem. It is essential to grasp that fact. Whether a product is organic or not is irrelevant...haven't they told you specifically not to eat fat. It isn't cakes themselves that gave you an attack it's the fat in them

It's a fairly simple organ...it's stores bile and pumps it out when there is fat to be digested. hence you must reduce fat intake a great deal. You can still eat nice food just have low fat. I seem to still be fine eating a certain amount of fat, but cashew nuts triggered my last 5 hour episode and I don't have to tell you what hell it is !

When you have had it out you can eat normally again more or less. They should explain all this to you.

Beware yoghurt too. I had an attack after yoghurt and was puzzled as I think of it as 'healthy' but it wasn't a no fat yoghurt so that's why.

Also be aware you can still eat cake because sugar won't trigger your gallbladder just fat. So if you had a sweet cake as long as it was low fat you may be okay. So whilst waiting for op you need to think about every bit of fat in your food. What has triggered appalling attacks for me has been

beef mince
full fat yoghurt (minor attack)
cashew nuts

and other assorted things when I wasn't aware I had stones and thought it was random pain

 

[pocossin]

Apart from this 'buscopran' which is an over the counter anti spasmodic remedy and strong pain killers are about all there is during an acute attack.

Ever tried cannabis?

 

[Trojina]

Depending on dietary habits, loss of a gall bladder can be a very big deal. My brother-in-law had to have his gall bladder out and now cannot consume the greens I take his family. Monday I found him cooking the turnip greens I had taken over, but he cannot have any without serious intestinal disorder. The same for zucchini, which I thought would be bland enough for him to have. It's the price that has to be paid for a troublesome gall bladder.

Well it depends on the individual. I've been told by Drs it may make one somewhat 'looser' in bowel habits but it generally settles down. I've met a number of people recently who say nothing but good things....and anyway there's no point dwelling on the downside if one has been advised to have it out.

Having said that like bspider I'm not 100% sure but about 97% sure I'll be waving bye bye to it. I guess they will re scan it before removing it.

 

[Trojina]

Ever tried cannabis?

I smoked it frequently in my teens but it doesn't agree with me and I don't touch it now. Apart from that it's illegal. If I am careful not to eat much fat then it should be possible to circumvent pain. I haven't had an attack for a few months. Touchwood.

Danger times BSpider are parties, social occasions and eating out because you don't notice so much what you eat nor can you control it so easily so you need to be super vigilant then and resist all temptations.

Mind you it really isn't hard to resist temptations when you know you will face hours of agony if you succumb.

 

[pocossin]

I've been told by Drs it may make one somewhat 'looser' in bowel habits but it generally settles down.

On the side effects of their adminstrations, Drs are not to be trusted.

 

[butterfly spider]

Hello
Am out of hospital
Feeling better - a bit bruised but OK

Thanks for the advise - and no of course organic butter is still fat - but organic fat. I just make a point if only buying organic local produce - it was a joke by my daughter that's all. Ironic that I only buy and cook fresh food - the odd pizza but 99.9 per cent of the time it is fresh. Don't particularly like freezers - only got one recently and have been lucky enough to live near markets.
Looking at the rubbish folk do eat I am a bit peed off at getting a gallstone - but then it might be repressed guilt anger frustration who knows. I got confined hex several times recently ...I even hung a picture if it on my wall .... A tree in a cave rather like a gallstone..

Anyway they did not remove my gall bladder but - it is interesting. One consultant looked at my stone (large) and said removal once the inflammation went down. Today I offered to be a guinea pig patient for a final student exam (poor thing had to examine me - not a pleasant sight). The top consultant was assessing - and for an hour was looking at my symptoms and also feeling my stomach looking at scans etx. He said that he couldn't guarantee but ...
That given my health (v good and fitness excellent) and given this was te first attack - he would try to do anything other than removal ....mmmm

Opposite me were 2 ladies. One had a perforated bowel caused by a gall bladder removal (accidently snipping)and the other had septicaemia from an ulcerated pancreas caused by a blocked bike duct - 2 different ends of misfortune

Anyway - am into a low fat diet (plus a good Quegri Pedra tea - ......

 

[pocossin]

am into a low fat diet (plus a good Quegri Pedra tea

http://enethealth.com/quebra-pedra-chanca-piedra-for-gallstones-and-kidney-stones/

Quebra Pedra is a botanical herb that is extracted from the trees of the Amazon rainforests, and it is said to help dissolve gallstones and kidney stones. . .

Was your stone removed?

Something has worked for me, but I do not know what it was. I had an impacted salivary gland under the tongue. I put off extraction and the stone has disappeared.

 

[butterfly spider]

Stone and gall bladder still there
X

 

[Trojina]

They do not remove the individual stones as you will see if you watch the video or do some research. They either remove the gallbladder or let it be and hope for the best. They go on how many attacks you had and how much trouble it causes you.


see 5.16 on the video that is 5 minutes and 16 seconds in where he says "why remove the gallbladder and not just the stones"

I too had a stone in a salivary gland that resolved by itself. This doesn't have much in common with gallstones which do not generally resolve by themselves although they can do from time to time. Nothing needs to 'work' for a salivary gland stone to resolve...they usually go all by themselves anyway eventually.

He said that he couldn't guarantee but ...
That given my health (v good and fitness excellent) and given this was te first attack - he would try to do anything other than removal ....mmmm

There isn't anything he can 'do' as far as I know. He either removes the gallbladder or you keep it and stay on a low fat diet. There are no other options in terms of what drs do re gallstones.. Not that I've heard of anyway. If he does give you an option besides that let me know won't you ? The 52 looks straightforward enough if he advises you to let things be. OTOH who wants to live knowing they could be rushed into A & E at any minute because even with careful diet it isn't always possible to avert attacks which can lead to infection, jaundice etc etc

I guess you have to weigh the pros and cons for your individual case with your Drs advice. There are entire forums discussing the pros and cons BTW and I don't recommend reading them because often people are so ill informed they attach any digestive ailment to the gallbladder removal when it is quite obviously something else.

The only people to listen to IMO in making your choice to are those you meet in person who have had it done/not had it done, and your medical team..oh and your own preference of course. It's always your choice. Although of course if you had a severe attack with complications there wouldn't be a choice they'd just rush you in and remove it. Perhaps as you have bigger stone they think the risk is less because it won't be travelling anywhere if it's too big to get out of the gallbladder.

 

[Trojina]

Stone and gall bladder still there
X

Yes it would be there because they don't just remove the stone they take the gallbladder out as explained in 5.16 mins in to the video. Don't forget to PM me or something if they say there is anything else they can do except

a. remove gallbladder
or
b. just advise you to continue with low fat diet and leave gallbladder and it's stone in situ

 

[butterfly spider]

Yes that's what was meant - 52 is about right I think

X

 

[cjgait]

I tend toward gallstones, and when I get the pain that tells me that they are growing again I take a course of Lidan Paishi Pian.

There is what looks like a pretty good run-down from the POV of traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) here:

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/gallstones.htm

The pills can be found in any Chinese pharmacy and also online and cost a few dollars for a round of treatment.

Naturally in your case, with a large stone already formed, you are better served doing what your doctor(s) advise. If you push out a large stone using Li Dan Pai Shi the results might be disastrous. But for others reading this who may have early stages of the affliction you may want to consult a TCM practitioner (and not self-treat like me, a dangerous thing to do).

 

[butterfly spider]

I have spent considerable time re reading all your wonderful posts and also googling - I feel a bit goggle eyed now. Have looked in supermarket shelves at alternatives to dairy - but they contain a lot of nasties so am sticking to my normal diet without as much fat and am cutting out butter and fatty meat. No cakes ....
There is a lot to consider but the cider apple juice and lemons is a good my usual diet consists of beetroot garlic radishes and many if the good food anyway. I am not overweight and none if the indicators (other than liking cheese butter and chocolate) apply.

It may well be to do more with the Chinese notes on gallstones to do with my emitional well-being-
I have spent a year agonising over decisions about moving and have been under immense stress with family. Last year my acupuncturist (I only go sometimes) said my liver energy was low.
I feel torn and as many of you who have kindly replied to my castings know - it is only very recently that I have felt enabled to say no and really consider myself in the equation. I have not felt 100 per cent well - in fact I went to GP (rare) to see if it was my thyroid. It wasn't.

I really think that my largish gallstone is the result of frustration anger and indecision. Somewhere within my system there has been a breakdown - possibly in my liver/digestion and the gallstone is the result. Something had to give ...

I did a casting just now - over which I have considerable thought and specifically -

Am I able to actively help myself in the situation I find myself with my gallstone - can I have an influence (meaning diet but also stopping indecision guilt and the like)

The result was 48.256 to 52

I like the reference to flowing clear water (it felt refreshing) and the change yet again to 52. ....
Stillness ...

Xx

 

[pocossin]

Am I able to actively help myself?

Advice for gallstone diets is contradictory. Peanuts, alcohol, and coffee are typically listed as foods to avoid, yet webmd thinks they may prevent attacks.

Certain foods have been studied for their potential to prevent gallbladder problems or reduce symptoms. For example, some research has indicated that drinking caffeinated coffee lowers the risk of gallstones in both men and women. Drinking moderate amounts of alcohol has also been linked to a reduced incidence of gallstones. In one study, women who ate at least one serving of peanuts a day had a 20% lower chance of having their gallbladder removed compared to women who rarely ate peanuts or peanut butter.

However, keep in mind the evidence is far too preliminary at this time to recommend any of these foods solely for the purpose of preventing gallbladder problems.
http://www.webmd.com/digestive-diso...der-diet-foods-for-gallbadder-problems?page=2

Taking the gallbladder as a well, I suspect a low but constant flow of bile is optimum and that is why a fatty food like peanuts and peanut butter, snacked on during the day, reduce attacks. Alcohol (wine with meals, say) and coffee may aid the low but constant flow of bile.

 

[butterfly spider]

Thank you Pocossin. It is all really rather confusing... I really fancied some of my sons peanut butter this morning - but thought it contained too much fat. I don't usually like it

Which makes me think that somewhere in a reptile or ancient brain is the ability to be know instinctively what foods we need to eat at any one time.

Recently I ordered 5 bunches of new radishes in the market and am always buying fresh organic beetroot. I love lemons with everything and recently rhubarb with food and in facial scrubs. ... These are all good for the gall bladder. I also think that colour of foods indicates certain characteristics too maybe. I am drawn to reds right now - strawberries berries beetroot radishes red beans even a red mullet yesterday in the market ...which draws me to the red wine ... Which I usually love. Even the thought if it makes me feel ill. - which probably means that I shouldn't drink it. I knew I was pregnant second time round when this happened last time ...


Anyway I am thinking of clear waters of the well and am looking forward to getting back to my life in re-focus with a still perspective and most importantly knowing that I am lucky to just be alive...

 

[pocossin]

I also think that colour of foods indicates certain characteristics too maybe.

Since gallstones may cause jaundice, you might consider yellow.

 

[butterfly spider]

Lemons .....
X

 

[pocossin]

Lemons .....
X

I was thinking in terms of yellow vegetables, like squash flowers or whatever is available to you. This thread has made me aware of the magnitude of the gallstone problem.

 

[butterfly spider]

Odd you should mention yellow foods. Before you mentioned yellow I had prepared dinner-

Parsnips
Carrots
Sweet potato mash
Baked chicken (with lemon)
Asparagus

Followed by banana (my son had banana and ice-cream)

Quite a lot of yellow in this I think!!!!


X

Edit - sent this before your reply came through. Got me thinking about yellow veg now - courgettes sweet corn yellow peppers yellow toms yellow beetroot ....

 

[pocossin]

I smoked it frequently in my teens but it doesn't agree

How, please, did it not agree with you? This is a current issue in the USA where mass efforts are being made to have cannabis decriminalized, although its detriment is obvious to simple observation. Forty years ago anyone could tell where the hippies lived by the trash in their yards. My opinion is that heavy cannabis use deprives people of initiative -- the desire to achieve anything. Did you become aware that you were being converted by cannabis into a human slug?

 

[Trojina]

I think for some people, not all, it can trigger paranoia and anxiety. This is well documented. I saw a TV programme on it. It depends how your brain is wired. While I had a lot of fun at first, after continued use it was detrimental to my mental state. I was very young so not really prone to slugdom.

The friend I smoked most with continues to smoke it every day to this day !. She's managed to look after ailing parents. get a first class honours degree and run a business. If I had smoked it everyday I'd be a paranoid nut.

You see it affects her in a completely different way to how it affects me. When I was older and had a smoke I didn't enjoy it because I wanted to be alert and by then I'd realised it simply wasn't a drug that suited me. It wasn't bringing me fun so what was the point. I don't drink much alcohol either and never have.

The TV show I mentioned was showing evidence that for some people cannabis can trigger all kinds of mental illness including sometimes psychosis. This has been somewhat overlooked in the campaign to legalise and so on.

It all depends on how you're made. Some flourish on it and achieve all they need to while smoking it each day.

I don't consider smoking cannabis to be a criminal activity but I don't think it should be promoted as something that carries no risks. I think it does. People of course shouldn't drive on it or look after kids on it, operate machinery etc etc...(.and of course for some it can send them over the edge into paranoia, make them anxious or make them apathetic) So if it is legalised there'd have to be similar kinds of restrictions that there are with alcohol I think. But it would be much harder to measure I imagine because everyone responds so differently.