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General questions when one receives "changing lines"

serchjing

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Hello Again,

Firstly, I must thank ALL of you who have been here for me with the death of my mother. I really am grateful for this forum :bows: I have a couple of questions concerning changing lines.

1. During a consultation if one receives multiple moving lines within a Hex, say at the initial, 5th, and 6th, does that mean past-present-future?

2. If you receive 5 or all changing lines what does that tell one? Is there too much flux at the given moment? Should one ask the same question later?

A reply to one of my other posts mentioned an "old nasty problem" and immediately a thought of the time I was in the hospital last November. My bowel collapsed and I almost died! I was scared sh*tl*ss. So I askedYi:

"In one of my last divinations you spoke of an old problem that will be coming up again for me. Please show me what this problem is."

Hex# 60 9-2, 6-4 changing into Hex# 45

Still a little new and puzzled to Yi, and by the answer, I just flat out asked:

"Please show me if I should be concerned with my bowel collapsing again:eek: "

Hex# 38 6-3, 6-5 changing into Hex#1

Hex# 38 I'm understanding as strange...I don't know if this is cool or not?
Maybe I shouldn't ask the same question differently? Or is that O.K. with Yi?

Mirror Saw
 

jte

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Hi, Mirror Saw...

"During a consultation if one receives multiple moving lines within a Hex, say at the initial, 5th, and 6th, does that mean past-present-future?"

The short answer is it *can*, but doesn't necessarily. It depends on the question and the circumstances. I've definitely seen cases where all the moving lines applied, but not necessarily in chronological order. Sometimes, however, the do indeed represent a series of changes/events chronologically occuring in reality.

"2. If you receive 5 or all changing lines what does that tell one? Is there too much flux at the given moment? Should one ask the same question later?"

I believe there are those out there with specialized systems for interpreting large #s of moving lines. In my case, I just make what I can of them, normally I'd try to see how each one applies to the question and perhaps pay particular attention to the Hex to Hex interpretation.

A lot has been made about the Yi adapting it's answers to the questioning style of the querent. That suggests that, theoretically, you should be able to adopt one of the specialized methods for interpretations and the Yi will "take this into account" when answering. Up to you whether you want to try this out for yourself...

BTW, there are some nice threads on the topic of multiple moving lines on Clarity (I've contributed to a few in my time). You might want to search and see what insights you can come up with.

Hope this helps, best of luck...

- Jeff
 

willowfox

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Hi mirror saw,

I believe that the old problem from the past was to do with your question regarding your business project. I thought I told you at the time that it would be a good idea to wait and see what the problem actually was before asking a question. But now that you have asked..

hex 60.2 says when the time comes go ahead with your plans. Once the obstacle has been removed, do not hesitate any longer, go, go.
hex 60.4 says every set back/limitation has a lesson to teach. When the problem is a relatively minor, ordinary one, success will be the outcome.
Now, as far as I can gather the problem has to do with your project, therefore, it could be to do with your job, the business itself, ie money problems, taxes, debts, or it could come from your family, father, your home.

hex 45 says join together with others, the need for a leader/boss, to seek help from someone wiser, looking to the family for assistance, all this brings success. Hex 45 does come with a warning where groups of people and money are involved, theft could be the problem.

the second question about bowel problems...
hex 38.3 says it often seems that life is conspiring against you, but do not mislead yourself with your fears, think clearly and all will be well.
hex 38.5 says remorse disappears, you bite through your fears no mistake
hex 1 says, I take it as a positive answer that you should not worry unduly about your illness, it does say that the problem can be quite serious but I don't think that there are any special precautions that you can take anyway. Just carry on, and put your fears away.
 

toganm

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mirror saw said:
1. During a consultation if one receives multiple moving lines within a Hex, say at the initial, 5th, and 6th, does that mean past-present-future?
Although each line is a succession of the previous situation, that does not qualify it as the past or present or future as I understand it. To me it shows how things will continue as each hex is an event and the lower and top lines are the beginning and end of the event.
2. If you receive 5 or all changing lines what does that tell one? Is there too much flux at the given moment? Should one ask the same question later?
If once receives 5 changing lines then the unchanging line should be consulted. If all the lines are changing then the judgment of the new gua should be consulted. (except Hex 1 and Hex 2)

I do not think the question should be asked later. It would be wise in my view to try to understand the answer.

"Please show me if I should be concerned with my bowel collapsing again:eek: "
Hex# 38 6-3, 6-5 changing into Hex#1
Hex# 38 I'm understanding as strange...I don't know if this is cool or not?
Maybe I shouldn't ask the same question differently? Or is that O.K. with Yi?
In my understanding one needs to ask the same question once; what ever the answer Yi Jing gives the meaning is in it.

Hex 38 is Fire above Lake below. Hence the opposition; as things move from lower to upper water of the lake is controlling the fire. In terms of five elements lake ( actually marsh) is metal and fire is fire. That makes is different as fire should be controlling the metal. The nuclear hexagram is 63 which is fire below water above. My understanding is the situation is the result of the controllers (fire above) being too weak hence the result is the insulting cycle ( there is the generating cycle, controlling and the insulting cycle in the five elements).

Therefore in terms of health I am tempted to think there could be problems within the digestion system, spleen along with kidneys and liver. It could also be in that time emotionally you had lots of fears. On the other hand these are all interpretations of mine.

Hope that these can help you in understanding your situation.

Togan
 
L

lightofreason

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mirror saw said:
1. During a consultation if one receives multiple moving lines within a Hex, say at the initial, 5th, and 6th, does that mean past-present-future?
No. The single line progression through a hexagram is interpretable as being a sequence in time. as such there is no difference qualitatively between the lines other than their order and so the perception of moving present-to-future etc.

However, the hexagram AS A WHOLE is made up of contributions of traits from all other hexagrams (as all is linked together) such that changing lines reflect a change in the whole expression; like a change in a DNA sequence affects the expression of the life form. There is no time sequence here, just a structural focus where each line represents some quality ordered from general to particular. The order from bottom to top reflects a decision strategy that elicits a quality (the whole hexagram) and THEN we can elicit change by changing the strategy. This can be done without going through the sequence - we can observe the 6 lines and change them in any order and in any quantity.

Imagine making a layer cake of 6 layers. Once made we can go back and change the qualitative nature of all or one or some layers. The TEMPORAL focus was on making the layers. Once done the hexagram AS A WHOLE is in a different format and allowing for qualitative changes. Thus interpreting multiple line changes by reading line A comments and then line C comments etc is misleading since these comments were written from a temporal focus, one line at a time for 6 lines rather than the 64 possible line combinations. That said, we can get good material coming out of treating the lines as waves.

If we focus on the lines as temporal steps then there is no relationship possible between, say, lines 2 and 5 since 2 is 'history' by the time we get to 5 - BUT we recognise there is a QUALITATIVE link between 2 and 5 and so reflecting the layer cake focus moving from general to particular.

Using the wave focus on lines (each line is a frequency twice that of the previous) so we can map out the basic frequencies (24, 07, 15, 16, 08, 23) and ADD them together to give us the compound forms = e.g. 27 = qualities of 24 + qualities of 23; 29 = qualities of 07 + qualities of 08; 62 = qualities of 15 + qualities of 16 etc

Note in this that 07 is yang line 2 as 08 is yang line 5. The relationship linking lines 2 and 5 is manifest in hexagram 29 with its focus on contaiment/control. IOW BOTH lines are 'active', one is not 'now' and the other 'history'.

the differences are qualitative, 2 is 'supervisor' class, 5 is 'king' class, but BOTH reflect a focus on issues of containment/control.

Using this so hexagram 20 is made from the sum of 23 and 08. 43 is made up from the sum of 24, 07, 15, 16, and 08.

A single changing line can reflect EITHER a change in the process of creating a cake OR a change in the qualitative nature of the COMPLETED cake. Hard to tell. More than one changing line can reflect a qualitative change of the WHOLE more so than a temporal change. There are no comments on multiple changing lines but we can work with them from a qualitative position. (to go temporal means to recognise the 64 steps through a hexagram, not 6 , most dont/cant do that)

There is also the recognition of a hexagram with changing lines being in fact the compressed from of expressing a dodecagram (12 line symbol). In this case we can flesh out the compression to give us the dodecagram. E.g. hex 2 with lines 5 and 6 changing becomes the dodecagram of 000000000101

As yet we have still not identified the full meanings for these dodecagrams - but the wave approach may help in fleshing this out.

Chris.
 

Trojina

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Just wondering Mirror what hexagram and line gave you to believe a "nasty old problem" was returning for sure ? I can't remember the thread where that was ? Was that your interpretation or someone elses ?

Some take the view that if there are many lines changing disregard them and focus on the primary and relating hexagrams. I have found that helpful.
 
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serchjing

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Dear Trojan,

Please see my post labeled THE DEATH OF MY MOTHER Pt.2 . Willowfox was kind enough to reply to my post. Please read the "nasty old problem".

thanks guys,

m
 

Trojina

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Thanks Mirrorsaw. Many people receive 21.3 in answer to all kinds of questions. In my view it is certainly no reason to worry that something unpleasant will happen. More often I've found it can refer to an unhelpful attitude within oneself, not something dreadful to fear in any area of life.

If any symptoms come that make you worry then obviously consult your doctor. Meanwhile worrying is not good for you :D
 
J

jesed

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Hi Mirrow saw

The old problem is related to business...

Here is the comment of master Joseph Yu for 60:
Discipline is the key to sucess, however the rules cannot be too rigid
Business: Stable but not dinamyc enough

Now, my own interpretation:
The problem is how to articulate diferent aspects of the whole (60), in order to gathering results (45)
I specially tend to see in 60 the risk of wasting the money... and the advice to earn and save with moderated spends.

So... a problem of budget/panification and the discipline to following that budget/plan. Could this ring a bell for you?

Best wishes
 

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