Giddy as a schoolgirl and 42.1.5

[MimiandtheYi]

Hey guys, first time posting.
Thanks for having me

So I'm relatively new to the Yi and my answers have generally been clear, sometimes laughably so (I suppose the Yi was being easy on me as a beginner) and then I was thrown this curveball.

Background
At the beginning of the year, I moved to a new city. I found a place to move into, living with one other man. This arrangement was just for 3 months because after this 3 months he would be leaving to go live in another country for a while. Well we got on like a house on fire. He was significantly older than me (I'm mid twenties, he early forties) but there was immediate attraction. Staying up most evenings talking, laughing, playing music. I was giddy as a school girl, excited as work finished that I would be going home to see him again, waking up every day with joy in my heart. Being the perfect gentleman he was, he didn't make any moves towards me until the last week before he left when finally we got together and spent one beautiful week as lovers. And then he left! Thunder, thunder, storm, shock!!!
(the Yi had told me about this with hexagram 51 haha but that's another story)

So a few months later I'm still thinking about him all the time. Wondering whether to let it go and live in the present or wallow in what was.
So I asked 'is there potential between me and x? Result 42 changing to 23.

After the 23-related panic had passed somewhat, I came to a few ideas as to what the Yi may be telling me.

1. 42 and particularly the changing lines demonstrated the relationship we had shared, one of generosity and openness without expectation of reward. Just the pleasure in giving to each other was enough. 23 reflects the fact that we are now physically separated.

2. The contrast between the hexagrams ('go somewhere/don't go anywhere') shows the fickle, changeable nature of relationships. Sometimes they are full of potential and you are on top of the world, then they break apart and you are alone, such is life.

3. There is also the cheeky 'ask not' in 42.5, I.e. The Yi is saying. This is your life girl. If your heart is pure go and find out for yourself if this relationship will work for you.

Anyway, any other opinions are welcome! This is such an emotional issue for me I struggle to be objective. Thanks so much x

 

[MimiandtheYi]

Oh wow, sorry about the hideous formatting. It was all set out so beautifully spaced and when I posted it, it all came out squished into one paragraph. Hopefully you can get the gist.

 

[Trojina]

read through this and thought to myself 'you've been done', this guy has duped you very deliberately by the sound of it. Building things up for months and then having sex the week before he goes ? Shame on him...and don't let people do this to you. Now let me r-examine my reaction in the light of the reading

BackgroundAt the beginning of the year, I moved to a new city. I found a place to move into, living with one other man. This arrangement was just for 3 months because after this 3 months he would be leaving to go live in another country for a while.Well we got on like a house on fire. He was significantly older than me (I'm mid twenties, he early forties) but there was immediate attraction. Staying up most evenings talking, laughing, playing music. I was giddy as a school girl, excited as work finished that I would be going home to see him again, waking up every day with joy in my heart.

Understandable, what a pity this predator ripped you off

Being the perfect gentleman he was, he didn't make any moves towards me until the last week before he left when finally we got together and spent one beautiful week as lovers. And then he left!

Okay I think you may need to redefine your idea of a 'perfect gentleman'...this really isn't it you poor innocent soul. And I mean that sincerely. I mean you have been an innocent, trusting this man and look what he did ! He almost groomed you. He got it so you really liked him, then slept with you just before he left the place so he could make a quick exit ! This is no gentleman this is a complete prick.

Thunder, thunder, storm, shock!!! (the Yi had told me about this with hexagram 51 haha but that's another story)So a few months later I'm still thinking about him all the time. Wondering whether to let it go and live in the present or wallow in what was

You mean he slept with you then left and never contacted you again ? If so of course let it go you've been had !

.So I asked 'is there potential between me and x?Result 42 changing to 23.After the 23-related panic had passed somewhat, I came to a few ideas as to what the Yi may be telling me.1. 42 and particularly the changing lines demonstrated the relationship we had shared, one of generosity and openness without expectation of reward. Just the pleasure in giving to each other was enough. 23 reflects the fact that we are now physically separated

So what is 42>23 we just want people to write it out here pleeease....if you write it like this we have to go and get a pen and figure it out so it is written as 42.1.5>23

Correction you were the one with 'generosity and openness without expectation of reward' and good grief you certainly have no reward except Yi is giving you great solace in line 5. If you have a kind heart do not worry. 23 is I think his ripping you off, effectively stripping away at your trust

.2. The contrast between the hexagrams ('go somewhere/don't go anywhere') shows the fickle, changeable nature of relationships. Sometimes they are full of potential and you are on top of the world, then they break apart and you are alone, such is life.3. There is also the cheeky 'ask not' in 42.5, I.e. The Yi is saying. This is your life girl. If your heart is pure go and find out for yourself if this relationship will work for you.Anyway, any other opinions are welcome! This is such an emotional issue for me I struggle to be objective. Thanks so much x

I hope you will not take offence at my evaluation of this but that is my view. Maybe I missed some things ? Has he called you since he slept with you that last week he was there ? If so that makes a difference. Otherwise he is an older man preying on a younger woman, taking advantage of her. That is all he is. I'd think for you there was something of value there, but him...he's not even worth thinking about.

You are in your 20s, you are naturally, well the way you were. He is in his 40s, he knows what he is doing, he did something nasty I think and you are too involved right now to see that unfortunately. I actually think what he did to you was horrible, waiting for the last week then just going. That was for sure pre-meditated on his part by the sound of it.

Has he rung you or messaged you or anything ? If so then I'd re-evaluate my POV otherwise don't let yourself be treated this way

 

[equinox]

Trojina, if somebody would like to use somebody deliberately for their own pleasure-- why should he build a connection with her in an effort that took MONTHS just to have one week of sex?

 

[Trojina]

Trojina, if somebody would like to 'use somebody' deliberately for their own pleasure-- why should he build a connection with her in an effort that took MONTHS just to have one week of sex?

You could ask why did he wait until one week before he was due to leave and then have a sexual relationship for a week and then just go and seemingly have nothing more to do with her ?

When you say MONTHS in capital letters it was only 3 months. Can you really not see this ? If he had begun a relationship when he still had 2 months to live there then he would have had to commit. By wooing her and being nice etc etc he made sure she was receptive by the last week to having sex with him, then he could skip off no strings attached.

I'm not saying he didn't like her but come on...really ? Just walking off after one week at the end ?

Of course there may be more information I don't know like maybe he has stayed in touch or given her an address or number where she can reach him in which case he obviously wasn't intending just to dump her. But if he hasn't ? I was guessing he hadn't because she said she couldn't stop thinking of him which made me think that for some reason she couldn't get in touch with him. If he left without leaving any way of contacting him then that is pretty shitty and would be a let down (23)

Anyway that is my view given what I know so far and given 42.5 and 23. You don't have to agree but neither do I really want to have to justify my answer to you.

 

[equinox]

she said she couldn't stop thinking of him which made me think that for some reason she couldn't get in touch with him. If he left without leaving any way of contacting him then that is pretty shitty and would be a let down (23)
.

Valid point. Maybe you are right and he really doesn't want to have a serious commitment and never wanted it. But from what she told you can't assume, that "that was for sure pre-meditated on his part by the sound of it". Sometimes people do things without intending anything bad and the way you talk, it sounds that he was deliberately luring her into something shady. Let's wait for further information by MimiandtheYi.

 

[Trojina]

Let me answer how I want to answer. I don't feel the need to have your approval of what I wrote I wasn't answering you. If I am incorrect on the situation she can tell me that. I answered because no one else had and if you have a better answer please post it rather than just criticizing what I write.

Write your response. What is your view of the cast ? That is the best way to disagree, put your own point over about the cast rather than dissembling mine or referring to it. I answered the person who posted the thread, not you.

 

[Trojina]

Valid point. Maybe you are right and he really doesn't want to have a serious commitment and never wanted it. But from what she told you can't assume, that "that was for sure pre-meditated on his part by the sound of it". Sometimes people do things without intending anything bad and the way you talk, it sounds that he was deliberately luring her into something shady. Let's wait for further information by MimiandtheYi.

Also it seems you do not understand my sentence . You quoted this

That was for sure pre-meditated on his part by the sound of it.

Okay the 'by the sound of it' part means 'from what I hear'. Okay so it is not any kind of final assumption it is 'by the sound of it' in other words 'from what I hear from what you tell me'.

This actually implies there may be more I don't know, obviously.

As for 'let's wait for further information' well that is what I was doing . I have responded and wait for further information . I don't need you to tell me what to wait for.

 

[equinox]

I think 42.1.5 could mean that she indeed should use he energies on her daily tasks, commitments, ideas and plans instead of indulging herself in endless thoughts and daydreams about him, because it looks like she is an situation where she is at threat to disregard them.
And I think that she maybe asks herself too often what else she could put in the relationship in order that the guy really recognises her good intentions. Which is unnecessary because the guy knows very well about it.

And Trojina, I did't say you can't answer the way you like, I simply asked you a question.
But, yes, let's forget it. I also don't want to discuss with you.

 

[Liselle]

Wondering whether to let it go and live in the present or wallow in what was.So I asked 'is there potential between me and x?Result 42 changing to 23.

After reading all this, I think my own confusion is mostly with what was Yi actually addressing.

42.1.5 > 23

42.1
"Fruitful to use this to make great beginnings. From the source, good fortune, no mistake."
42.5
"True and confident, with a benevolent heart, No question: good fortune from the source. Truth, confidence and benevolence are my own strength."

My first reaction was to mentally reword the question as, "What is the potential in this relationship?," and - well - if I'd ask what the potential is for something, and get those two lines of 42, I'd think the potential is very good indeed. I mean, the lines are full of goodness: "Great beginnings." "Good fortune, no mistake." "No question: good fortune."

I might interpret the rest of 42.5 as encouragement for Mimi, that she should be true, confident, and benevolent. Be confident in her/their feelings, be 'benevolent' towards his lack of contact - I mean, I agree with Trojina that his actual behavior doesn't seem to warrant any of that at all, but...

I might think of 23 relating as how it appears to Mimi at the moment - right now they are separated. But it's the relating hexagram, not "the answer," not what the situation actually is (I'd probably say to myself).

However - again, stacking up "lovely wonderful reading" against "has been gone for months with no contact" - this belies any common sense. I mean, unless the poor fellow is in a coma, surely he'd have some way to get in touch if he wanted to. So...are the lines of 42 not what they appear to be? Or maybe it's an indirect answer?

Back to what Mimi wrote:

"Wondering whether to let it go and live in the present or wallow in what was.So I asked 'is there potential between me and x?"

I'm starting to wonder if Yi's giving beginning-diviner Mimi a small lesson? The question she asked was about the relationship's potential, phrased perhaps sub-optimally as a yes/no. (Mimi, many people, notably including Trojina, can ask yes/no questions and not have trouble interpreting the answers. But there is nothing in the I Ching that means just "yes" or "no". So it's generally advised to rephrase yes/no questions into something like "What is the potential for this relationship?"

Am also noticing that Mimi had more in her head when she cast. "Wondering whether to let it go and live in the present or wallow in what was..." Those are two separate questions - "What if I let this go?" and "What if I wallow in what was?" - and then the actual question was a third question.

I wonder if 23 in the background was advice to you, Mimi, to split up your questions, "expose" through "stripping away" what it is that you really want to ask.

Am also wondering if Yi indicated it was changing the subject (to "divination lesson") by giving an answer that makes no sense at all as a description of the relationship - so little sense that one might start looking for other explanations?

Of course all that might be completely out to sea. It's just yet another angle on it. uch:

Regardless - Mimi, have you gone through Hilary's Beginner's Course? https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/learn/beginners/
It has good information about writing questions.

To straighten this out, you might think about rewording your question and casting a new reading. Then you could post it if you want.

 

[Trojina]

I might think of 23 relating as how it appears to Mimi at the moment - right now they are separated. But it's the relating hexagram, not "the answer," not what the situation actually is (I'd probably say to myself).

You've said this before and it baffles me. The relating hexagram is the answer, it is an integral part of the answer, how do you mean it is not 'the answer'. If it isn't the answer what do you think it is ?

 

[moss elk]

To whom it may concern:

23 is not separating,
it is taking from
or having something taken from you
(the jun zi avoids this by being generous to those below,
like the ladies in line 5 and in the Image.)

12, 33, and 59 are separating.

 

[oceangirl]

I agree with Trojina and Moss Elk here - she had something taken from her Hex 23.

 

[Liselle]

Moss Elk, Oceangirl - I see your point. You probably mean - correct me if I'm still not understanding - that what happened when X left was not "separating" in a mutual sense, but that X took himself from her?

Hm, even my own 23 example that I usually think of for the "separating" sense - in order to eliminate interference, I had to put distance between two electronic boxes - could be seen as "take one away from the other." Does that make sense? I mean, in everyday English when talking about set-top boxes we might say "separate them," but even in that example there's actually a difference. I only moved the one box, away from the other one. I didn't move both boxes.

Wouldja look at that. Very good point. Thank you!

You've said this before and it baffles me. The relating hexagram is the answer, it is an integral part of the answer, how do you mean it is not 'the answer'. If it isn't the answer what do you think it is ?

Um...yes it's an integral part of the answer, and I know Hilary usually says what you're really getting is both of them at once, with the relating hexagram shining through and lighting up the moving lines. But she also says the primary hexagram is what you have to work with, vs. the relating hexagram which might be the context, or how you "relate to" or feel about it. She often says these things when trying to disabuse people of thinking the relating hexagram is the future.

I wonder if an analogy might be something like this: a mother says to her son, "Don't go out to play; you have homework to do." The basic answer, perhaps as the boy is running for the door, is, "No! Don't go out to play!" The context or background or "what it means for the boy" is "You have homework to do."

If it was the other way around ("You have homework to do!" as boy runs out door) might produce an argument, "I'll do it later!" or something, which would still require the mom to have to state her basic message, "Do not leave this house."

How would you distinguish (generally) between hexagrams going X > Y vs. Y > X? Do you see it as completely fluid? I've seen fluidity there, too, but still, X > Y and Y > X aren't the same reading, right?

Weren't we thinking of having a Yi Academy thread on this subject once upon a time? So many topics, so few hours in the day

 

[Trojina]

Um...yes it's an integral part of the answer, and I know Hilary usually says what you're really getting is both of them at once, with the relating hexagram shining through and lighting up the moving lines. But she also says the primary hexagram is what you have to work with, vs. the relating hexagram which might be the context, or how you "relate to" or feel about it. She often says these things when trying to disabuse people of thinking the relating hexagram is the future.

Yes you are getting both at once otherwise there is no answer. And whilst Hilary may make these distinctions I really don't think she is saying the relating hexagram is not the answer. And anyway regardless of what Hilary says,( and I don't think she regards herself as the ultimate authority ) you do have to work with both primary and relating hexagrams. For me they are inseparable. Yes there are broad distinctions one might make for the sake of understanding but in practise they exist together at the same time , they make the reading.

I wonder if an analogy might be something like this: a mother says to her son, "Don't go out to play; you have homework to do." The basic answer, perhaps as the boy is running for the door, is, "No! Don't go out to play!" The context or background or "what it means for the boy" is "You have homework to do."

I find that too defined. I think it is a useful way to think about it if a beginner with Yi but after some time, for me at least, it is far more fluid than that.

How would you distinguish (generally) between hexagrams going X > Y vs. Y > X? Do you see it as completely fluid? I've seen fluidity there, too, but still, X > Y and Y > X aren't the same reading, right?

I use them pretty fluidly yes, I don't look at them separately but together and the more lines of the primary change the more the relating comes to the fore.

Weren't we thinking of having a Yi Academy thread on this subject once upon a time? So many topics, so few hours in the day

I thought we did have. I mean it's a very individual thing, there are no rules, it's just how your brain sees the primary and relating together. In fact the worse thing to do would be to make a rule about how to use the primary and relating because it wouldn't work (after you are a beginner). We know 'the relating is the future' is not so useful but equally 'the relating is the context' can be limiting too. I think the relating is the whole surrounding area, past, present and yes sometimes future and most importantly it is simultaneously and irrevocably totally happening together at one with primary as the whole answer. How's that for a jumbled sentence.

 

[Liselle]

I thought we did have.

We had a thread on the primary-relating relationship, because that's a module in Foundations, but I don't remember looking specifically at examples of X > Y vs. Y > X to try to get a feel for that. It may have just been me thinking I'd like to (which of course I could do with my own readings by myself - hours in day, again).

 

[Trojina]

Perhaps I should say whilst my initial response to Mimi may seem a tad extreme she did say

Anyway, any other opinions are welcome! This is such an emotional issue for me I struggle to be objective

...and as soon as I read it I had an opinion. My reply is in part taking the role of devil's advocate as a wake up/shake up. If she finds my thoughts on this completely unacceptable, well at least they are different thoughts to the ones she's having and they are something to argue with/against and sometimes that is important.

In responding we don't just look at the reading we also speak to the person themselves of which we get impressions. This is very touching

Well we got on like a house on fire. He was significantly older than me (I'm mid twenties, he early forties) but there was immediate attraction. Staying up most evenings talking, laughing, playing music. I was giddy as a school girl, excited as work finished that I would be going home to see him again, waking up every day with joy in my heart.

...full of excitement and joy

Being the perfect gentleman he was, he didn't make any moves towards me until the last week before he left when finally we got together and spent one beautiful week as lovers

I don't see a 'perfect gentleman' as someone who really makes a girl happy for a few weeks then sleeps with her then abandons her (if she is abandoned)

. And then he left! Thunder, thunder, storm, shock!!!

That's abandonment (23). Abandonment is not deciding jointly to not see one another it is just, well being abandoned. This sense of abandonment will be all the more because he made it a physical relationship in the last week when he knew he wasn't going to stay with her or even keep in touch with her ?

This whole thing about not having expectations in relationships is I think a giant con especially for females. Of course you should have expectations, of course you will have them because you really can expect more than this but somewhere along the line have been sold the idea you aren't supposed to have them Anyway that's off topic except there are a lot of people who come to SR with queries, both male and female, who seem to apologise for expecting anything at all from people who have begun relationships with them, as if no one has any responsibility for anyone's feelings.

 

[MimiandtheYi]

Thanks for all over the responses guys!

Trojina hahah wow, in hindsight I realise that it does sound kind of scandalous. But in reality, it was me who made the initial move to turn the relationship into something sexual. When I demanded to know why he hadn't made any moves towards me, he said that it was hard but, as I was a young woman, he hadn't wanted to make me uncomfortable. Can he be entered back in the perfect gentleman books now? haha. And he has contacted me a few times whilst he has been away. Just little friendly things.

So many pertinent details to include! So little space!

But I have recognised in my heart now that the differences between us (lifestyle, age etc) are probably too vast to make it into something serious. And I should probably just enjoy the connection we shared without all this clinging. The old heart says one thing, head says another.

I have sinced asked Yi

'Is it time to fully let go of this relationship?'

And received 21.1.3.4 (Biting Through) changing to 52 (Keeping Still)

Curious. But I can definitely see the necessity of receiving 52. These here emotions definitely need to be stilled a little.

Thanks again guys.

 

[Liselle]

I asked Yi about my notion that it had changed the subject - unfortunately I didn't ask until after I posted - and Yi told me 32.6 > 50. Which I think is it saying I was all wrong about that, I jumped too quickly (32.6) to go outside the "vessel" (50) - it wasn't a change of subject at all.

Sorry, Mimi...

 

[MimiandtheYi]

Haha all good Liselle. It was an interesting rabbit hole to go down anyway

 

[Trojina]

Trojina hahah wow, in hindsight I realise that it does sound kind of scandalous. But in reality, it was me who made the initial move to turn the relationship into something sexual. When I demanded to know why he hadn't made any moves towards me, he said that it was hard but, as I was a young woman, he hadn't wanted to make me uncomfortable. Can he be entered back in the perfect gentleman books now? haha.

Mmm he is marginally more a perfect gentleman yes

And he has contacted me a few times whilst he has been away. Just little friendly things.

Nice so there is a possibility of a relationship ?

But I have recognised in my heart now that the differences between us (lifestyle, age etc) are probably too vast to make it into something serious.

Anytime you bond with someone to this extent it's serious. Society/our culture/whatever lies to us about this. There is a lie that all these things are just throw away. Your feelings, your sexuality, your heart...it's not serious. You can just throw it away and buy another one and these forums alone show that really isn't how it is at all. You are already always thinking of him. There is the theory when you sleep with someone you make a kind of etheric connection, a thread between you on an energetic level that doesn't just vanish as people imagine, it actually changes your energy field and of course this will link strongly to your heart energy.

You said

So a few months later I'm still thinking about him all the time. Wondering whether to let it go and live in the present or wallow in what was.

So to your heart this is already serious. I think we keep getting messages not to take our heart seriously and I connect it with the consumer throwaway culture. It is serious to your heart that is why you need to take care

And I should probably just enjoy the connection we shared without all this clinging. The old heart says one thing, head says another

.

'Clinging' ? You see I see this as another lie we have been fed, that emotional need, expectation and connection is 'clinging' and we are just meant to pick people up and put them down and it's not meant to be serious. Yet all over this forum we have people in varying states of pain because they enter into relationships where they are made to feel they have no right expect anything

I have sinced asked Yi

'Is it time to fully let go of this relationship?'

And received 21.1.3.4 (Biting Through) changing to 52 (Keeping Still)

Curious. But I can definitely see the necessity of receiving 52. These here emotions definitely need to be stilled a little.

I think there are things to deal with here, there are things to be addressed (21) that you might be half ignoring (52). He may not be as bad as I first thought but I just don't feel this is actually as good for you as you represent it to yourself. I think, looking at the lines of 21 it is hard to let it go and let's face it we don't generally have huge choice in how and when we let go. If you read lines 3 and 4 there are realizations to come to and it may be the more you look into this the less commendable his behaviour becomes in your eyes. Even if you initiated sex it still doesn't mean he wasn't taking advantage of you. How do you see this cast ?

 

[MimiandtheYi]

I see 21.1.3.4 changing to 52 as saying that there is an obstacle to unity within myself, something has got stuck and needs to be worked through and removed. This something is my fixation upon the idea of X.

This cast is also fitting because the very first cast I did regarding this relationship resulted in hexagram 27 (Providing Nourishment). Since those innocent early days something has definitely become stuck.

But, in light of line 3 and 4 in hexagram 21, I shoudn't be punishing myself super harshly. I'm a woman, we feel, it's normal. Working through this doesn't need to be dramatic, but a little more like hexagram 52, through gentle quiet introspection.

Which actually is what has happened here! Just talking through this with the helpful I ching family has definitely taken the edge off! Thanks guys