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megabobby

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the vibe of this post is hexagrams 11->48

recently i saw a video by a guy named alex jones called '911-the road to tyranny'

in it he claims rather convincingly that the 9-11 attacks were actually a product of the american gov't to make us fear terrorism and give up our liberties in a 'war on terror'

3 of the terrorists were trained at one of our top naval air schools (pensacola florida)

right before the attack, bush signed an order that forbade anymore investigations of domestic al quaeda agents...freeing them in a sense

bush family has had a long relationship with the bin laden family that continues to this day..even flying them out of the country after the attack

says that there is an elite of rich and powerful who are using the attack to instill an eventual global police state---

calls osama bin laden a cia 'super asset'
says he's actually a tool the gov't is using to place blame on this incident--we haven't caught him cause he's too valuable of a propaganda focus for the 'war on terror'

basically he's saying that the okc bombing, and the wtc bombing were total smokescreens and were caused by the u.s. gov't itself to further it's own interests. go to infowars.com if you're interested in more of his proof.

how does this strike you guys?
just wondering

megaxshloobppy
 

davidl

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Maybe, people like Bush and Bin Laden just reflect the 'nature of the beast' or in other words are just puppets for the 'real' sentiment in the populace. Can we really go on blaming 2 or 3 people for the problems in the world. I agree they are connected, but not by open collusion, more by allowing themselves as individuals to be corrupted by power, the power we give them. They accept the power and then must pay the price by being openly responsible for gross global destructive events. But we too are responsible.
Conspiracy theories are the the best way to apportion blame, finger point etc. lets start pointing the finger at ourselves and clean up our own acts. Part of that is not voting or giving power to the corrupt. I suppose in the end my view is that its not them , its all of us.
 

tashiiij

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hey megabobby;

yeah one can read all kinds of convincing theories that point to what youre speaking of. currently there are so many factors at work which have served for this administration to take hold with the force it has.

ben franklin said, after signing the constitution, that it was a good document, would last a couple hundred years, and that when the ethics of the democratic population declined, the people would get the government they deserved. so i agree with david, there is a degree of personal and collective responsibility.

but the force with which this administration has implemented its grip is unbelievable. from court appointments to the battlefield, from environmental rulings to policies that affect cities and public schools, they have been ruthless. they have put all their people in place, and dismantled a system of checks and balances. damn. they may have as well driven the planes into the buildings, which i stood on the street and watched fall. with all the other stunned new yorkers.

just read the biography of a man like carl rowe, bush's counselor, and you will see that these people dont give a flip about the constitution or civil liberties. it comes down to big big money and the greedy mixing of commerce with government that has been going on for a long long time.

now these policy makers start this unjust war and have the unbridled gall to come to taxpayers and expect a broke population to pay for it. meanwhile megacorporations profit from the war business. but hey, they have to come to us to beg for the money so guess who really has the power! we do! if we get clear and start thinking straight, we can kick the bastards out.

this stuff about the big money, its so obvious, all you have to do is read the headlines. it's not even hidden anymore.

dont know what your question about 11/48 referred to. 11/48 is nice, yes?

in general, i think what is going on is a wake up call to americans, who have been oblivious to the rest of the globe because of our physical boundaries. you know what they say about mexico. "poor mexico. so close to heaven. so close to the united states."
 
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dharma

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Ever read David Icke's book "....And the Truth Shall Set You Free"?

Here's a summary:

A certain negative-minded group of entities from the Fourth Dimension called the Luciferic Consciousness has the Earth and it's inhabitants under its control and that we are their prisoners. They have accomplished this by casting a "vibratory net" around the planet that blocks out other frequencies of information and ultimately de-links us from the Father. They have even tampered with our DNA which he explains as to why we are only capable of using a small percentage of our brain capacity. Basically, we become more and more imprisoned by the material world over time the more they are able to persuade the majority to reject all idea of the spiritual realms and the eternal nature of life the more successful they become at retaining the planet and it's inhabitants under their control. The work is accomplished through a small number of select but extremely powerful people who control all the world's assets.

It is their aim to maintain negative conditions upon this planet (as negativity is their sustenance) by perpetuating war and dissension amongst the masses and the nations who are deliberatly kept poor, hungry and uneducated in order that they may gain complete dominance through a "New World Order" (one banking system, one army, etc.) In this way they would be in complete control and would no longer need to keep their agenda covert and hidden. Until then we still have the chance of breaking free of their control and so their efforts continue to remain discreet.

The book is interesting in that the author has done a lot of research and has covered all our known recent history, and points to these few people (individual elite & banks involved) who consistently seem to be present and involved in all the world's affairs making everything he (Icke) is saying quite plausible. Many of these people are connected to each other one way or the other through the Freemasons/Illuminati Order. He suspects that many who are involved with them are not even aware of the true destructive intent behind these Brotherhoods as the main leg-runners operate from lower levels of the fraternity and are not aware of what goes on up at the higher levels. In effect, they are the stooges who put the "Prison Warders" (as Icke calls them) plans into action, unknowingly.

David Icke's theories (and he does seem quite convinced that these are facts he is stating and not merely theories) are interesting and compelling enough to seriously consider as containing many grains of truth.

<CENTER>In Lak'ech
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Mayan code of honor)
"I am Another Yourself"</FONT></CENTER>
 

hilary

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Thanks, Mick.

Another thing that bothers me about conspiracy theories in general is the question of what kind of action they can possibly lead to. All I've found so far (from those who believe in Icke's child-eating reptiles et al) is the insistence that everyone must be made to believe in what 'They' (the conspirators) are doing. And that's all. Never any possibility that what we do might be relevant. (If the conspirators are actually extra-terrestrial, They obviously can't have anything to do with Us.)

Someone tell me the connection to the I Ching in all this! Or should I move the whole thread to 'Open Space' so people can voice their views without worrying about that?
 

tashiiij

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dharma i am down with the fact that economic materialism is death to the lifeblood of this planet. i have had dreams of such a place. really sad for the heart. i grew up with dreams of the apocalypse.

recent teachings brought me to the juncture where i made a choice, apocalypse or not. i chose not. it was a hard choice. only my tutelary diety got me thru it.

but now i understand the wisdom of no war no apocalypse.

yesterday i was in a store during a hurricane. the rain was raging outside. an impoverished family stood in line with me at the pharmacy, the mother yelling at her 2 children. being mean to them, the children taking it, wide eyed. the mother saw my umbrella, which was a gift given to me by someone, a rather magical mary poppins kind of thing. she admired it and pointed it out to the children. their eyes huge, looking at something beautiful. a voice inside me said "give it to them" and i did. the moment did something for the children. i will do anything to preserve magic and love for them.

times such as we live in require listening in this way. we can make the choices. we can always find beauty. we can always give. i know you are down with this too as are many readers on this site.
 
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dharma

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Mick, Hilary ...

I have actually read Icke's book from cover to cover and at no point did I encounter any "child-eating reptiles".

Some of you may be annoyed by 'conspiracy theories' while some of us are annoyed by well-meaning 'dissers' based on third or fourth hand information.

As far as I can tell, Mr Icke is anything but antisemitic but one would never know this unless one actually read something he wrote - not something someone else said he said.

In any case, I'm not interested in getting into any heated debates regarding this subject - frankly I don't know anything more than what I've read and as a result can prove nothing. I merely found Icke's material, as set-forth, curious.

<CENTER>In Lak'ech
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Mayan code of honor)
"I am Another Yourself"</FONT></CENTER>
 

hilary

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Here we are - all moved over. Hope everyone will find their way here who wants to.

I haven't read anything by Icke, but did see film on TV of one of his speeches (and have met a few disciples of his on mailing lists). In his talk, Icke showed illustrations of the reptilian aliens that rule the earth while disguised as political leaders (or as the Queen Mother, when she was alive). The idea seems to be that the Illuminati who rule the earth from behind the scenes are hostile extra-terrestrials.

You see what I mean about this being disempowering: if we are dealing with aliens, there is clearly no reasoning with them, no compassion to awaken in them, no democratic process or activism that can reach them. They have no motives beyond 'feeding on negativity'.

Working on human motivations (such as fear or greed) can't change the aliens - so personal development or social/environmental activism are a waste of time. The world's problems aren't caused by human motivations at all, but by an attack from outside. In fact, everyone should be filled with fear and hostility towards the aliens, and hostility towards those who deny their existence.

Other conspiracy theories work in a less extreme way, but to similar effect. We don't create our world (by the way we vote or don't vote, by our activism or lack of it, by what we consume or choose not to consume, by the umbrellas we give to children... thank you, Tashiij!...): They create it, and we are not like Them, nor are we connected to Them.

Ugh. Going to read Tashiij's lovely umbrella story again to cheer myself up.
 

gene

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Hi Dharma and everyone

I have read all of David Icke's books.

At this point I do not want to debate this on an international forum. However, I will say this, conspiracy is not a theory, it is a fact. And the world will know it shortly.

I was just looking at Jeff Rense's website. Apparently he has taken some pictures off the website of the airplanes that crashed into the world trade center. The first plane did not have external engines the way a 747 would have. When it hit it created damage but not like the second plane. The second plane had a second fuselage attached to it. You can see it in the pictures. 747s do not have a second fuselage. When that fuselage hit the building there was a violent explosion. After the first plane hit the air force had plenty of time to scramble jets and stop a second, third and fourth event. They did not. They could have used anti aircraft missiles. They did not. In fact they took no action at all. How convenient that the aircraft that hit the pentagon hit a part that was relatively unused. These are not theories, they are facts. And for those "in the know" they are indisputable.
Jeff's website is http://rense.com/

Gene
 
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dharma

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<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

I haven't read anything by Icke, but did see film on TV of one of his speeches (and have met a few disciples of his on mailing lists). In his talk, Icke showed illustrations of the reptilian aliens that rule the earth while disguised as political leaders (or as the Queen Mother, when she was alive).<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>You'll have to forgive me if I find your experience of Icke bizarre (if it was indeed Icke you saw) because as I said there was nothing in his book to indicate that this was his message at all. Read the book and you'll see what I mean. In fact, you only need to read the first and last chapter to get the gist of what his message really is - you'll be surprised to find that it is oriented to the spiritual empowerment of mankind and not aimed at scaring people. Also, I wouldn't be so keen to judge Icke the man based on those who claim to be his 'disciples' without having read his material first. Doing so might explain why anyone would go to the trouble to create this kind of smokescreen in the first place. Again, I don't wish to argue over who's right and who's wrong, I just think it is very unfair to everyone all around to make disparaging statements and definitive remarks about someone's life-work without having acquainted oneself with the actual material.

<CENTER>In Lak'ech
<FONT SIZE="-1">(Mayan code of honor)
"I am Another Yourself"</FONT></CENTER>
 

hilary

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Hm - yes, I know what you mean, in a way. It's just that I do not want to hear it. Any conspiracy theorists reading this will leap in glee - aha, denial! (Or perhaps another closet reptile?) But what I mean is: would such belief serve anything I know to be right? Does it have anything to do with what I know to be true? No, and no. And incidentally, it's all obviously barking mad. Some wise soul once said that it's good to be open-minded, just not so open-minded that your brains fall out.

(By the way, Dharma, I know your brain is securely seated, and that you're not committing yourself either way. Not talking about you!
happy.gif
)

Yup, it was Icke - whole programme dedicated to him, and not altogether unsympathetic. They did feature some anti-fascist demonstrators who came out against him, but they didn't come over well. The impression given was that Icke himself was peaceful and benevolent (albeit nutty as a fruitcake), and it wasn't his fault if his material was particularly attractive to Nazi thugs.

He's written a lot of books and covered a lot of ideas - so if what you read was more recent than the show I saw (a few years ago now), maybe he's moving away from the idea that his aliens are actually, physically reptiles.

What about the fairness of saying that named individuals are really not human at all, but evil aliens? (But maybe politicians are fair game?
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cal val

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Tashiiij...

If you're not a member of moveon.org already, you might find it an interesting organization to join.

It started out as a "get over it and move on" (regarding 9/11) organization and has expanded. They keep constant pressure on the government, especially Congress, regarding the events that have transpired since 9/11 (the war on Iraq for one), and the DNC is relying heavily on their grassroots membership base and momentum to get Bush out and a Democrat in.

I signed this petition this evening. http://www.moveon.org/firerumsfeld/. That's how I do my part. I join my voice with other Americans in speaking out against the abuses and atrocities we have endured under the current administration. And I will vote (sorry Daivdl...not voting doesn't work} in the next Presidential election.

Cheerio the noo,

Val
 

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