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"have words"

heylise

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Today I found a new meaning for the expression "there is talk", literally "have words".

It figures 5 times in the Yi. At 6.1, 36.6, 47 judgment, 51.6 and 53.1.

I had made a mistake. It was something tiny, hardly worth to fuss about, but I knew that one person would be full of suspicion that I had done this on purpose, or that it was a huge fault.

I asked Yi what to do about this, and got 6.1, changing to 47. It sure was how I felt, 47. The little mistake was part of something bigger (not a bigger mistake, on the contrary, I had done a great job and was not credited for it), and all together was making me very frustrated.

I solved the problem by not letting her find out for herself, but telling it in a lighthearted way at a moment when she was in a good mood (after a big compliment I made her - and not on purpose for this end, it was a real one). Everything ended fine.

In 6.1 there is "small have words", which I always saw as negative. Someone who has something to say, complain, nag, things like that. But in this case, I myself made the words, I talked about it in a small way.

In 53.6 it says "have words, no fault", which also sounds a lot like what I did. So maybe the expression is neutral. Can be positive - or negative. Depends on circumstances. A warning - or an advice.

*** later...
Lol, must be a day of mistakes. Read the wrong line, but it did help. I did start out with the line of the money-belt, but somewhere it changed in my mind to the line with the small words. The moneybelt made me decide not to make an issue of it but instead be the wisest one. Did Yi it/him/herself trick me into reading that other line as well??
 
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Trojina

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In 53.6 it says "have words, no fault", which also sounds a lot like what I did. So maybe the expression is neutral. Can be positive - or negative. Depends on circumstances. A warning - or an advice.

*** later...
Lol, must be a day of mistakes. Read the wrong line, but it did help. I did start out with the line of the money-belt, but somewhere it changed in my mind to the line with the small words. The moneybelt made me decide not to make an issue of it but instead be the wisest one. Did Yi it/him/herself trick me into reading that other line as well??

you mean 53.1 right ? typo as there are no small words in 53.6 that i can see ?.....so thats mistake number 3 :)

I always take 'small words' to be something of no consequence so I would see 6.1 as quite reassuring, no big deal

I wondered if there was talk in 36.1 ? I don't think so but it says the 'master has something to say' something like that



ps what is the 'line of the money belt' ? I don't know what you mean. Ah do you mean 6.6 ?
 
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heylise

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O, mistake nr. 3, should be 53.1, yes. At the top of my mail I had it right.

In 36.1 it is "the host has words", the host has something to say. I always read that as if he finds fault. Always did with all of them, but now I wonder if it might sometimes be different.
 
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sooo

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I've always interpreted that the host could as easily refer to ones own mind and body, or to someone else, or both. For ones self, for example, might include self doubt, self disappointment, self scrutiny or suspicion of ones own intentions or actions or words, or those of another toward ones self, or those of ones self toward another. The host is the one who carries, protects (defensiveness) and feeds it. It could also pertain to an organization or authority.
 

hilary

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Oh, I remember the feeling of 6.6 to 47. Horrible mixture of loneliness and indignation: I'm being misjudged, I have no friends, and it's absolutely not fair. Ugh!

As for having words... 'having something to say'. I've never tried to look at them all together. Fun! OK... there is a general sense that 'these are the words that you can hear at the moment'. Usually I seem to find they are inner conversations, but of course they can just as well be outer. Conversations about alliances and joining, conversations about the small one's place, words from the point of view of the 'host', the authority who sets the tone of the place. I suppose the host's words about the one flying away and not mingling are usually critical, or at least raising eyebrows at such odd behaviour. (That fits with everything Sooo suggested, I think.)

But yes... it can certainly be used as advice to generate your own words, make the kind of conversation that's needed. 53.1, definitely. 6.1? Hadn't thought of that, but maybe the small words help you to end it?

Wu Jing Nuan on 6.1:
"The common denominator, the common people, can give wise counsel. Stop the dispute."
 
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ginnie

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Words ... gossip ... people complaining about what irks them ... 'silent consent,' which is about the failure to speak ... discussions of all kinds ... explanations ... refreshing exchanges ... words as nourishment ... words of encouragement ... talking too much ... and, of course, wasting one's breath.

Aren't we speaking about communication in general? It can mean anything.

Oh, and then there is the phenomenon of people saying the opposite of what they really think or feel ... making it important not to pay too much attention to words.
 
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bradford

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Hi LiSe-
I've found the verb You to have more functions than that. For instance, it serves as the royal possessive (the King approaches His shrine).
I've also found it works very well in expressing future tense - there will be words, they will have words, the small will talk, the small have to chatter, etc.
 

heylise

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Didn't think of that... Same as characters which can be verb, noun, single, plural, object, abstract and so on.
Now, past, future. In my mother's language (Swiss, German) "to have" is like the character you, it also means "there is". Not necessarily just 'now', but rather like "words exist", there are words. Which in some vague way also includes other times or places.
 

ginnie

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Today I found a new meaning for the expression "there is talk", literally "have words".

It figures 5 times in the Yi. At 6.1, 36.6, 47 judgment, 51.6 and 53.1.

I had made a mistake.

So maybe the expression is neutral. Can be positive - or negative. Depends on circumstances. A warning - or an advice.

'How does one live in such a well-lighted country,' where even the Moon looks brighter than in China? asks Beijing-born Yiyun Li in the current issue of The New Yorker magazine. Perhaps it's true that we are 'lacking an escape from the harsh, hard-edged light.'

Our English language can seem that way, too. We have devised ways of making everything we say or write excruciatingly precise --- tenses as time markers, parts of speech, set sentence structure -- while the Asian peoples don't seem to want to care about all that.

Seems to me it's right what you said, "So maybe the expression is neutral. Can be positive - or negative. Depends on circumstances."

Doesn't the average Asian person prefer to keep his or her verbal expressions rather obscure? Maybe that's why so many of the lines in the I Ching are useful and applicable even if turned around and looked at from many angles, even from the opposite point of view.
 
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bradford

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Our English language can seem that way, too. We have devised ways of making everything we say or write excruciatingly precise --- tenses as time markers, parts of speech, set sentence structure -- while the Asian peoples don't seem to want to care about all that.

Seems to me it's right what you said, "So maybe the expression is neutral. Can be positive - or negative. Depends on circumstances."

Doesn't the average Asian person prefer to keep his or her verbal expressions rather obscure? Maybe that's why so many of the lines in the I Ching are useful and applicable even if turned around and looked at from many angles, even from the opposite point of view.

The biggest part of that problem is that Old Chinese had less than 10,000 words to relate to the whole world, where a language like English might have 250,000. Each word usually had to do a lot of multiple duties, even back then (with notable exceptions like long, dragon). In other words, the richness of implication was a function of the language, not a cultural choice, and they adapted well to it.
Given those problems, modern Chinese had to evolve a lot of two-character ideas, much like chimps will coin the word "water bird" when they first see a duck. This process was only beginning when the Yi was being written so the language is necessarily less specific.
 

ginnie

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English might have 250,000 [words].

too many words

nobody can possibly know them all

Yes, I am lucky if I can still heft the unabridged dictionary of the English language.
 

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