Health question

[oponopono]

Hi everyone,
Im a bit puzzled with the answer to a very concrete physical symptom Im experiencing. As I am on the road and dont speak the language I didnt go to see a doctor, and it could be nothing, but as it persist I got worried and asked:

What to do about this symptom?

31.4 > 39

(Wilhelm) Nine in the fourth place means:
Perseverance brings good fortune.
Remorse disappears.
If a man is agitated in mind, And his thoughts go hither and thither,
Only those friends
On whom he fixes his conscious thoughts Will follow.

While throwing I actually thought "I will get one of those 'It furthers one to see the great man' lines and then I really have to go to the doctor"...!
But no, nothing that concrete, just an advise on the stability of my thoughts... I can cure it with the power of my mind, kind of thing? Its somehow stress-related? It is not the most stressful time these year for me, no, not even close.

But what I got is that I shouldnt worry, shouldnt hold an agitated mind, right?

thanks
Yoana :bows:

 

[yamabushi]

Hi everyone,
Im a bit puzzled with the answer to a very concrete physical symptom Im experiencing. As I am on the road and dont speak the language I didnt go to see a doctor, and it could be nothing, but as it persist I got worried and asked:

What to do about this symptom?

31.4 > 39

(Wilhelm) Nine in the fourth place means:
Perseverance brings good fortune.
Remorse disappears.
If a man is agitated in mind, And his thoughts go hither and thither,
Only those friends
On whom he fixes his conscious thoughts Will follow.

While throwing I actually thought "I will get one of those 'It furthers one to see the great man' lines and then I really have to go to the doctor"...!
But no, nothing that concrete, just an advise on the stability of my thoughts... I can cure it with the power of my mind, kind of thing? Its somehow stress-related? It is not the most stressful time these year for me, no, not even close.

But what I got is that I shouldnt worry, shouldnt hold an agitated mind, right?

thanks
Yoana :bows:

This is serious post to answer. I m not qualified to answer on Yi ching oracles because I m rookie and I m searching help myself, but I have some experience with traditional chinese medicine.
According to tcm most of health problem is related with emotional problems, it depend what type of person we belong (earth, fire, metal, water or wood type).
According to your reading you are capable to fix your emotional problem which causes you problems alone, if not you can find qualified person to help you (hex 39) and it will be fortnate. Can you find a doctor of tcm or herbal master where you live? Search and you will find it...

 

[oponopono]

Dear Yamabushi,
thanks for the help. It was also how I read it, even though I am afraid the whole thing is slightly too esoteric for me. I can understand how diseases are caused from emotional malfunctions, but how can I cure it by changing my thoughts? Which ones?
Anyway, the problem is I am on the road, two days in each location and very busy all the time. I thank you for your advice and will try to find someone...
Yoana

 

[tiziano]

Hi Yoana,

I'm quite new to these forums, too. Neither am I an expert of mtc, I'll just try and say what I feel about your reading.
Hex 31 is all about our body, how it relates to us and how we relate to it. So it's very appropriate to your question.
All lines except the 4th refer to a specific part of the body. The 4th one is said to be the place of the heart: in this hex it can refer to the "center", not only a physical or emotional center but also the center of intuition. (note: the meaning of the word "center" here is different from its usual one, when talking about the 5th or 2nd lines for instance).
The literal meaning of the text here is controverse, especially the last sentence. I quote A. Huang for a comparison to Wilhelm: "Hesitating, hesitating. Coming or going? Friends follow your thoughts". That's much simpler and direct. A sense of hesitation and wandering is dominating here, and I think this depicts BOTH your being on the road, restless, in physical terms, AND your hesitation (emotional level) on what to do about your symptom (which, by the way, you didn't reveal; we'll just respect your privacy). The interesting part, in my opinion, is that there is a THIRD layer which covers both: listening to one's own body and its signals involves intuition, or being able to communicate directly with nature, bypassing the rational mind. Which I feel is the ultimate sense of hex 31. This kind of "fine-tuned sensing/sensitivity" needs emptiness within to work, as the Great Image says, so you can "let in the people", the people here being no one else than yourself in your totality. Of course it is very difficult to find time and space for oneself while being stressed by busy days, overwhelmed by work and haste, hurrying here and there.
Your body is trying to say something to you, probably just "stop and rest", which is perfectly coherent with the original meaning of Jian, the tag of hex 39, which originally meant "to stumble" or "to hobble", i.e. difficulty in walking. Your risk is that if you don't stop, your body will be likely to force you to do so. Unfortunately, working nowadays can be very proving for our organism, our life's rhythms aren't natural anymore. Just try to find some time for yourself.
Then, as you take a rest, it will be easier to decide whether to go and see a doctor, and you'll find time for this. Or maybe some rest is all you need. I can't tell, the more because I don't know the nature of your symptom.

I hope this helps.
Cheers

 

[tigerintheboat]

Another Health Question

Hi everyone,
Im a bit puzzled with the answer to a very concrete physical symptom Im experiencing. As I am on the road and dont speak the language I didnt go to see a doctor, and it could be nothing, but as it persist I got worried and asked:

What to do about this symptom?

31.4 > 39

While throwing I actually thought "I will get one of those 'It furthers one to see the great man' lines and then I really have to go to the doctor"...!
But no, nothing that concrete, just an advise on the stability of my thoughts...

Yoana, see the following thread, another health question, same reading.

Health Question

You are right in that the reading does not say to go see the great man.

Tiger

 

[Liselle]

Both of those questions/threads have something to do with running around, coming and going. In this one, Yoana is literally running around - traveling. In the other one, samoyedmom is being "given the run around by a handful of doctors."

Hilary's translation of 31.4 is:

‘Constancy brings good fortune, regrets vanish.
Wavering, wavering, going and coming,
Friends simply follow your desires.’

Yoana, did this symptom start since you've been traveling? Any chance it could be somehow caused by being on the road, and when you stop "going and coming" the symptom will disappear?

 

[oponopono]

Really helpful, everyone, really thankful you took the time and energy to help me out with this. :bows:

A sense of hesitation and wandering is dominating here, and I think this depicts BOTH your being on the road, restless, in physical terms, AND your hesitation (emotional level) on what to do about your symptom (which, by the way, you didn't reveal; we'll just respect your privacy).

Yes, its quite intimate and it makes me feel awkward to post it in a forum. But its not so difficult to figure it out… I was reading Louise Hay's interpretation on such symptoms and apparently they express an unwillingness to deal with the past, something about a past wound.
It does make sense, but what I find intriguing is that this trip/tour began exactly because I came to a point so low that I had to pull myself together and decided to leave the bed and the victimizing attitude and let bygones be bygones. As it is possible to follow through my post history in this forum, these past events concern mainly an artistic career that came to a halt much sooner than I expected, and a man I deeply love who just left and never wrote/replied again.

Yoana, did this symptom start since you've been traveling? Any chance it could be somehow caused by being on the road, and when you stop "going and coming" the symptom will disappear?

Precisely, this trip came as my decision to let go of the past and move on, literally embrace another life, and I'm on the road with a different line of work and investing in a new partner. And roughly at the same time (2 weeks later) it started.
It's funny now that I think of it, as I am pretty uncomfortable in my body, it also keeps me away from physical contact with the guy…

Of course it is very difficult to find time and space for oneself while being stressed by busy days, overwhelmed by work and haste, hurrying here and there.
Your body is trying to say something to you, probably just "stop and rest", ).

I see your point, Tiziano, but given the context above, that I left a situation in which I was pretty much dragging myself through the flat, this trip actually comes as an exciting adventure, and I don't feel stressed. I'm too occupied to find a doctor, but Im loving every second of it…
Is it really that my body is telling me, go back and be depressed and ponder on how you lost it all and will never get it back…?
I "rested" too much since my dancing career fell apart. I really NEED to move…

Tiger, very curious that both readings in such a short period of time receive the same answer, thanks for the link. You advise him to slow down a bit, as Tiziano advises me. I will honestly try to find resonance in me for your recommendantions, it just strikes me as so odd that I am finally being proactive and fighting to get a sense of life back, and my body tells me to slow down…

I suppose it knows better…

Thanks you all for the help, really.

 

[Liselle]

this trip actually comes as an exciting adventure, and I don't feel stressed. I'm too occupied to find a doctor, but Im loving every second of it…
Is it really that my body is telling me, go back and be depressed and ponder on how you lost it all and will never get it back…?
I "rested" too much since my dancing career fell apart. I really NEED to move…

Just because something might to some degree be caused by something else doesn't mean you should necessarily stop doing it, especially if the benefits outweigh the problems and you're happy. That's your decision (in a nice way ), and something only you can know.

And you might still want to see a doctor at some point - the problem might be caused by traveling (to whatever degree it is), but a doctor might still be able to help.

And for what it's worth, the nature of your problem isn't that obvious - I for one have no idea what it is!

 

[samoyedgrrl]

Yoana, I have a feeling we may be walking parallel paths with Yi here. I've experienced a lot of heartbreak during the past year, which all started with me leaving a man I lived with for 7.5 years who ultimately cheated on me with a married woman. I am having major issues with the thyroid, which I think is at the 'heart' of the problem for me. I've also been told that a lot of stress exacerbates the thyroid problem as well. Could it be the physical symptoms we are experiencing really are being driven by emotional stress? I think it's a definite possibility.

A friend of mine told me that it takes the body six months to show its reaction to the stress you're experiencing. What happened in your life last spring? Was that a very stressful time? Could your body now be reacting to what happened back then?

I am planning a vacation at month's end in an attempt to reduce my stress and remove myself from my routine daily life. I believe that break from things will help me mentally, emotionally and hopefully physically. Granted, I am going to "see the Great Man" (a/k/a doctors) between now and then just to ensure that modern medicine gets its fair shot at curing me as well. It is my wish to you that you're able to find that peace which will bring you healing as well.

 

[tiziano]

Ok, it's much clearer now... I didn't read your previous posts, sorry, so I totally missed the point.

Anyway, while reading your explanation of the context I also happen thinking that your need to move was so impelling you somehow forgot to follow your body's natural rhythm. You were absolutely right leaving and moving, and no, you shouldn't go back, but your adventure should respect the natural needs of your body, otherwise it will become stressing, even if now it's not. So, the advice would just be: moderation and adequate pace. You would like to run but you should walk instead.

Furthermore, when you write:

I was reading Louise Hay's interpretation on such symptoms and apparently they express an unwillingness to deal with the past, something about a past wound.
It does make sense, but what I find intriguing is that this trip/tour began exactly because I came to a point so low that I had to pull myself together and decided to leave the bed and the victimizing attitude and let bygones be bygones.

this could sound as a sort of escape... It's right to stand up and move, stop commiserating and so on; but I think you should be careful and turn your exciting adventure into a meaningful journey, which can give a sense to your past. And for this, the right pace is needed.

If one of your problems was a career as a dancer, then also hexagrams can reveal new things.
Hex 39 is about the movement of the feet, as I said, so it's directly related. I guess that when you say you NEED to move, this may be for you something very physical, a sensation starting from your feet. So having your feet again blocked in your changed hex can mean finding yourself stuck into the problem, not "going" but "coming", suggesting that any attempt of escaping would be vain.
Hex 31 can tell us more about what moved you to leave and how it acted. I (as a musician) think music is referred to here, in its wide sense. In fact, this gua has much in common with hex 16, both being centered on a yang fourth line (the one you had). This line is the one really creating the music, its source; music's excitement is represented in hex 16 and its influence on us is the subject of this gua. Expanding yang lines by one more step we find hex 44, where yang is somewhat frightened by a growing yin and feels besieged, which would mean for you falling back again into your "low" period.
I think you should "meditate" on the meaning of music in your life, how much it is important to you, because I think it really is. But don't complain, just keep moving, moving is like music for you. Enjoy it. And maybe you'll start to think to your previous career as something that still makes sense because it gave you something you still have; value it as a richness you can retain, making you the person you are.
Then, the same may be true for the love story you had. And having given meaning to both things, perhaps your body won't have reasons to keep you away from other men anymore...

 

[tigerintheboat]

Agitated Thoughts

Precisely, this trip came as my decision to let go of the past and move on, literally embrace another life, and I'm on the road with a different line of work and investing in a new partner. And roughly at the same time (2 weeks later) it started.


Is it really that my body is telling me, go back and be depressed and ponder on how you lost it all and will never get it back…?
I "rested" too much since my dancing career fell apart. I really NEED to move…

Tiger, very curious that both readings in such a short period of time receive the same answer, thanks for the link. You advise him to slow down a bit, as Tiziano advises me. I will honestly try to find resonance in me for your recommendantions, it just strikes me as so odd that I am finally being proactive and fighting to get a sense of life back, and my body tells me to slow down…

It is not necessarily that you should slow your movements down physically, I don't think that is it for you. Getting your life back, getting yourself on the road, I don't see any of that as not being indicated, at least not from the reading (I don't know your whole history)

This reading seems to be about thoughts, agitated thoughts....and how they may impede your way forward.

Nine in the fourth place means:
Perseverance/constancy brings good fortune.
Remorse disappears.
If a man is agitated in mind, And his thoughts go hither and thither...


Let's look at the WikiWing translation and commentary:

Constancy brings good fortune, regrets vanish.
Wavering, wavering, going and coming,
Friends simply follow your desires.'

[Commentary: ]A place where you need constancy, steadiness of purpose, to leave regrets behind and arrive at good fortune. There’s indecision, moving to and fro between the options. Maybe specifically between continuing according to precedent, or changing course. Stephen Karcher[1] associates the ‘going and coming’ with the gait of Yu, a dance between past and future. This might not just be dithering, it might be a necessary way of processing change, moving between what goes and what comes until the whole picture is familiar.

True friends, in such a time, would naturally follow you and not try to lead or guide. You need to work out your own direction. You might not want the lead, but you have it.

If you lack constancy, this does become a paralysis of indecision, and regrets don’t vanish.

So, ...some questions to ask yourself....

Are you pining over the past, and creating paralysis?
Are you wanting someone else to lead you?
Is it possible that this "dance of the past and future" is not being processed well?

Best Wishes,

Tiger

 

[ginnie]

While throwing I actually thought "I will get one of those 'It furthers one to see the great man' lines and then I really have to go to the doctor"...!

The text above the moving lines of Hex 39 says it is advisable to see a great man. If I were you, I'd stop thinking about your symptoms and try to find a doctor.

We try to make major life changes very quickly in our modern lives. We think that if we decide something in our head, then that's it -- it's all decided. Not so. We are so very complicated, we human beings, like onions with a large number of layers. Apparently there are parts of you that are still attached to the places and people who you've left behind or who abandoned you. And those parts want to be acknowledged.

Once a disorder has manifested on the physical level, most of the time it's advisable to go see a doctor for a good diagnosis. Once you've got a good diagnosis, you'd have a lot of latitude in how to go about treating the condition.

 

[ginnie]

Who is this Great Man we are sometimes advised to go meet with?

There really are not many great men in any era. Einstein? Ghandi?

I don't think the great man must necessarily be a doctor. The person should be trusted, though. It's hard, since you're traveling. You must mainly be among strangers at this time?

 

[patro]

What to do about this symptom?

31.4 > 39

hi Yoanna,

my point of view is that the answer of the Yi is referring to the possibility... that your felling about your health, is influencing you and vice versa.

the forth line of 31 talk about: a interested influence is acting.. this kind generate impediments.

probably you have nothing... just some strange feeling... you are the one that generate the obstacle.
I know you are a dancer... probably your slow down in your activity... have generate this kind of feeling... consider that during physical intense activity... a lots of hormone etc. will produced from your systems... and know they are finish... or they're to less.

as always... hope to help

Patro

 

[tigerintheboat]

Relating Hexagram

The text above the moving lines of Hex 39 says it is advisable to see a great man. If I were you, I'd stop thinking about your symptoms and try to find a doctor.

H39 is the relating hexagram, and perhaps what you say is valid. But I would be much more inclined to go with that if she got it in the primary hexagram, or if it was in a moving line.

The relating hexagram is like the third level of relation to what is going on, after the primary hexagram and the moving lines. I would be more inclined to see it here as being how Yoana is relating the situation at the start, as needing an expert to guide her.

But the reading talks about the mutual influence of she and the expert. If Yi wanted to tell her to go see a doctor, H39 would have been the primary hexagram, IMHO

Tiger

 

[tigerintheboat]

Great Man

Who is this Great Man we are sometimes advised to go meet with?

There really are not many great men in any era. Einstein? Ghandi?

I don't think the great man must necessarily be a doctor. The person should be trusted, though. It's hard, since you're traveling. You must mainly be among strangers at this time?

It need not be an external great man...it can mean to reach inside to our higher parts, however we might have learned to do this...or even something more mundane.

To quote from Hilary's "Words of Change", which is highly recommended for diviner's of all ages and well worth the price she asks for it:

See the great person: 見 大 人 , jian da ren
Literally
A great person could be someone with social or moral authority: the king, your
elder, possibly (according to Wu Jing Nuan) a diviner. Seeing the great person
might imply seeking an audience with one of these, or simply looking to them.
Related English phrases
· Mentor
· Advisor
· Role model
· Higher self
Ideas for interpretation
There are two core literal meanings to consider as foundations for interpretation:
· Seek the advice and insight of an old wise one or a diviner
· Have an audience with a person of great social influence
The old wise one might offer you advice or insight; the powerful person might offer
you the opportunity to do more important and fulfilling work. In both cases the key
word here is see: seeing the great person always means a change in awareness. The
power or wisdom was there all along; now comes a time when it pays to be more
aware of it.
Seeing any kind of great person implies lifting the situation to a higher level where
more can be seen and done. The great person might be someone who’s achieved
what you’ve only imagined, and your entry point to a realm where these things are
possible. They might also be a source of a higher perspective.
In practice ‘seeing the great person’ or ‘great people’ (there’s no marker of
singular/plural in the text) can mean recognising the quality of greatness in
another person (where it may or may not be obvious), and also seeing that quality
in yourself. You can only recognise greatness in another person because you
already know within yourself what it is.
Example applications
· Get help and advice from a counsellor, a mediator or a coach
· Choose a mentor to learn from and model, in the flesh or from a book
· Go see the boss about a promotion
· Talk to the competition about working together
· Conduct a written dialogue with your future self
· Change a relationship by making it a conversation between inner ‘great
people’; ask bigger questions for a bigger answer.
· Divine

That covers a great territory and leaves your imagination free to find the greatness, wherever it is!

Tiger

 

[ginnie]

That covers a great territory and leaves your imagination free to find the greatness, wherever it is!

I agree. Who the great man is depends on what your difficulty is.

"Don't complain to anybody who can't solve your problem."

 

[mythili]

I see this reading 31.4>39 along similar lines as Ginnie's interpretation. It doesnt look urgent, but instead of dithering or being indecisive, 31.4, you should see someone who is more knowledgeable than you and can help (H39), presumably a doctor.

 

[oponopono]

Hi everyone
Im really thankful for everyone´s input! As I am touring I dont have internet access everywhere I stay, or just shortly, but I did follow all the posts as they came along.

Some things happened, and I am not so alarmed anymore:
I tried to see a doctor but language barriers made it a surreal and frustrating experience. It was really not possible...! There I met someone who told me my country (as many) has a phoneline just for counseling and diagnosis, and I immediately called, and was some 45 minutes exchanging ideas with a doctor. He did advise to get some real consultation, but in his opinion it is nothing serious, just a stress related symptom, and I should take it easier. He asked me if anyone in my family showed the same symptoms and I said i had no idea, so afterwards I called my mother and she gave me a laugh... "Dont worry dear, I had it allllll my life!"

So, eventually I will see a doctor but for the time being I will overlook and learn to deal with it. Im not so worried anymore, but I still have an uncanny feeling my body is alerting me to something I refuse to look at.

So I ended up seeing many superior people, including my own great mama, but likely I still havent met the great person within... I enjoyed your debate around this sentence a lot, because I often get it, and I never know who could be this great man...
I feel in this specific case, it is (in) me.

But just to make sure, I will also see a doctor ;-)

Thank you all again for the support!

Yoana

 

[oponopono]

So, ...some questions to ask yourself....

Are you pining over the past, and creating paralysis?
Are you wanting someone else to lead you?
Is it possible that this "dance of the past and future" is not being processed well?

VERY useful, Tiger.
I guess in a way Yes, Yes, and Yes. I cant deny my unsolved feelings over the past one and a half years, but I am putting everything I have into building a new paradigm for myself, and other than this, I really dont know what else I could be doing.

Humpf...

 

[oponopono]

OUTCOME:
(14 MONTHS LATER)

Before entering 2012 I've decided to answer unanswered mail, go over the small tasks in the to-do list that never get done, give stuff away and - bring my online iching posts to a closure.

Im trying to go over everything I've posted in this forum to confirm that I always posted the OUTCOME. A lot of people never do and I find that a pity, it would be brilliant to know how some answers played out for each specific situation.

In this case!

What to do about this symptom?
31.4 > 39

I never really took much action at the time because the doctor experience was crazy (language-wise) and my mum told me she had it since always. But more than a year later I still have it, and it still makes me concerned when symptoms increase, and I still feel it has to do with my inability to let some things go...

y

 

[arabella]

OUTCOME:
(14 MONTHS LATER)

Before entering 2012 I've decided to answer unanswered mail, go over the small tasks in the to-do list that never get done, give stuff away and - bring my online iching posts to a closure.

Im trying to go over everything I've posted in this forum to confirm that I always posted the OUTCOME. A lot of people never do and I find that a pity, it would be brilliant to know how some answers played out for each specific situation.

In this case!

I never really took much action at the time because the doctor experience was crazy (language-wise) and my mum told me she had it since always. But more than a year later I still have it, and it still makes me concerned when symptoms increase, and I still feel it has to do with my inability to let some things go...

y

Hi Yoana,

I don't know where you are staying and how complex the language barrier makes things for you but for any problem emotionally rooted I would completely recommend finding a competent acupuncturist. This is the first port of call for all of our family.

It's amazing how many health problems disappear overnight when your energy is flowing in the right direction. In any case, acupuncture will not hurt you and can only help. If you can't find someone locally, please PM me and I'll try my best to help you. Arabella

 

[ginnie]

so afterwards I called my mother and she gave me a laugh... "Dont worry dear, I had it allllll my life!"

Your mom was the 'great man' you needed to see, I think, since she's the one who let you know it was okay not to worry about it.

Even though you are suffering from an inherited tendency, I think you'd do well to see an acupuncturist, as Arabella suggested. Times have changed and 'energy medicine' can reverse conditions that Western medicine cannot cure. I am wishing you all the best. Only rarely does someone come back as you have done to follow up and close down the thread.