Help with #13 and #24

[pakua8]

Hello,

Last night I sat down, relaxed, lit a fire and concentrated on what I thought would be a simple question that would help me attain the right direction. My question was relating to my Ex-Fiancee and it was:

Will we ever get back together again?

I have had a hard time overcoming our relationship but she has from what she has told me moved on and wants me to. I had hoped the I Ching would give me advice on how to move on. Instead I found my first Hexagram to be #13 Companionship and my changing lines to create #24 The Returning. Both from my amateurish knowledge seem to point to us having the possibility of a future again. It has left me quite confused and bewildered as I did not expect this nor do I know how to correctly interpret my Hexagrams. Can anyone give me advice on how to interpret these Hexagrams based on my question?

Thanks,

Michael

 

[louise]

Hi Pakua, I can see why you're confused, I would be too because the answer you received seems to imply that possibly neither of you are being very open about your feelings/intentions. There are 4 moving lines, and if you approach these as a story the 3rd line seems to indicate mutual mistrust, that possibly there are things to be said but neither of you wants to make the first move. The image is of antagonists hiding their weapons, maybe waiting to see what the other one does. The 4th line seems more favourable. It again gives the image of someone taking a defensive stance, but here it seems more like a good idea in that they are carefully considering their position before 'attacking' or making a move. Line 5 seems to indicate a happy reunion where both parties realise they have misunderstood one another all along and that they can happily be together. The 6th line I'm not so sure about, but would take it overall to advise openess, perhaps a good idea to meet on neutral territory. My feeling is that perhaps you have already passed a low point in the relationship (24)and that if you can be really open and honest with each other rather than hiding your feelings (possibly out of pride, or insecurity)you may find that a reunion is possible. From the way you worded your question, ie you asked about getting back together rather than moving on, I feel perhaps deep down you are hoping you can make a go of it. I think the I Ching here is advising you to really lay your cards on the table. If you would really like to be back with her, be very open and tell her. It may of course be her who is not being very open with you, in which case it may be a good idea (if she hasn't completely cut off from you)to meet up, in neutral territory, somewhere without associations for either of you,(line 6, refers to suburbs,)and try to have a really frank discussion. Even if she is very guarded and defensive I think it will pay for you to let your guards down, risk humiliation, and simply tell her you want her back. Thats all you can do. If she says its definitely over at least then you can be sure that you've done all you can and that the split won't be due to some misunderstanding. Of course I realise you may perhaps have already tried this ? That is only my interpretation of the answer, not necessarily the right one.
Hopefully other people here will add their insights. Good Luck.

 

[pakua8]

Louise,

Thank you for the in depth interpretation. I did actually lay my cards on the table with her and she told me to move on. You are correct in that she has not been honest since the day we broke up. I have been unable to convince her to open up. I do myself deep down want to get back together which is why I worded my question like I did but had laid my cards on the table with her before I did the I Ching. I was looking for something in the I Ching to help me find the path to move on as I don't know of any other way to get her to open up. I did tell her I still love her and want her back but she told me to find someone else. This is what confused me about my I Ching Hexagrams. I don't know what my next move should be since I actually did take your wise advice before I started down this path with the I Ching. Any other thoughts on my next move? or other ways I could interpret my Hexagrams?

 

[alisa]

Michael,

The relating Hex. 24 (Returning) could be telling you to turn back within yourself for your own companionship needs. Ask yourself: How would you comfort and advise your own best friend (companion within) if he were in the same dilemma as you?

 

[louise]

Michael, yes its hard to interpret this hexagram in the light of your situation. It seems you have done everything in your power to show her you love her, have accepted her decision to split up, yet the I Ching seems almost to be advising you to continue ?? Maybe you could ask some further questions of the I Ching from a different angle, maybe a question relating purely to you, rather than the both of you. The other possibility is that the answer you received, is actually addressing another issue in your life. I've read on this site that sometimes the I Ching is answering a different, more fundamental problem than the question you asked it. Sorry can't be more help it must be a painful situation for you, and confusing, given that you have sadly accepted that you have to move on. I hope you get some more ideas from others on this site.

 

[hilary]

Hello Michael,

A few more ideas to add to the mix...

Hexagram 13 seems to me to be the work of creating harmony between people - not a statement that all is (or will be) sweetness and light. People in the countryside need to make their own rules in order to co-operate successfully in the work they share. The wise disciple recognises and respects the differences between people in this work of harmonisation - different origins, different interests to defend. After all, the idea behind the effort is to work together, not to wage war. I think that the I Ching could indeed have offered you what you were looking for, namely advice on how to move forward - aiming for a situation of friendship, where you can talk together and work things out openly, and in both your interests.

Hexagram 13 is more to do with friendship than intimacy or passion. However, Hexagram 44 is hidden within #13 as its ?mutual gua? or ?nuclear hexagram?. This suggests that stronger emotions than co-operation and friendship could still be hidden here, but if anything these look like a threat to your efforts to create harmony.

I know I?m stating the very obvious here, and going over ground Louise has already covered, but it does seem that what you asked - about getting back together - and what you say you were looking for - a way to move on - are not the same thing. As a rule, you do need a clear question to get a clear answer.

I think that Hexagram 24 is more the approach you need than the outcome you can expect. Of course you are preoccupied with returning, but the question with this hexagram is always what path you are returning to. If you browse through the page titled ?Education? you?ll find a good example of this. Ultimately only the person whose question it is knows their own path.

Hexagram 24 shows the very beginnings of the return of the light after a long period of darkness: it needs to be allowed to come, with great patience and without anxiety. I think this suggests a pause before you try to resume communication, and (like Alisa said) turning inward for a time.

All those moving lines sound to me, as they do to Louise, like a story. It doesn?t say how long the story might last, or what the final two lines might mean. Probably a solid friendship with your ex-fiancée, possibly more, maybe even a completely new relationship. Many lines suggests many choices, and many hurdles to negotiate: the higher the lines, the more remote they are from your present position and the more they depend on your choices.

At present I would suggest you concentrate on getting from line 3 to line 4! At line 3 you have in theory separated amicably and put the past behind you. In practice you still have weapons hidden - perhaps out of a lingering desire to inflict some sort of punishment, perhaps simply out of fear and defensiveness. So much for People in Harmony being the opposite of the Army (Hexagram 7)? In any case, you need to ?climb a high mound?, connect with your roots, and attain a measure of detachment from your hopes and fears. Line 4 shows how defences - boundary walls between you - can actually create a sense of security that makes peaceful relations possible.

I do appreciate that this is all absurdly easy to write compared with what is really involved! I wish you luck in working your way through this. If/when you have more I Ching questions, please do post them here.

 

[candid]

Hi Pukwa.

#13 Fellowship, speaks more of the interests of humanity than that of personal gain or gratification.

On a practical level, people are often repelled when they sense a "hunger" or need emanating from us. Especially if they sense that we're looking to them to fill our intimate needs. Its just a natural human response to that type of pressure. I suggest that you examine whether your focus on your ex-partner is/was one which centered around your needs, or if it was based on true fellowship.

Just as people are repelled by a sense of our selfish gain or ambition (concerning them), they are also attracted to someone who possesses contentment within themselves. This is the meaning within #24 Return. Return to your core being and develop fellowship first with that person, yourself. That will build your inner strength and will clarify both who you are and what your purpose in life might be.

I can't say whether there's a future with your ex, or not. Certainly he/she would notice the difference. There would be more trust because the motives aren't based purely on self interests, but on the broader and grander motive of true and honest fellowship with another valuable human being. If its not meant to be that you will have that friendship, others will be drawn to your new sense of inner peace and value, gained from your return to your own inner light.

I hope this sheds a little fresh light on the subject.

~Candid