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Help with relationship reading, 20 changing to 3

tamorgana

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Short background...I was in a relationship for about 7 months. This relationship began as a quick friendship. At the time, I was not interested in pursuing a long-term relationship and voiced this with the individual I was seeing. He was a more active pursuant than I in the beginning, and over time, and through having a friendship and casual physical relationship, we both developed stronger feelings but rarely discussed them. I began to get nervous, as he treated our relationship very casually, and told him that I could not see him anymore (I was scared that he didn't feel the same way as I was beginning to feel and I have been in many emotionally abusive relationships). He accepted my feelings, but voiced an interest in continuing to see one another and we continued to see each other for a few weeks longer but I was still scared to fully voice my feelings. When I did, he was comforting and affectionate and expressed having similar feelings but did not voice an interest in having a long term commitment, either. I expressed a want for commitment down the road, but he said he wasn't sure he could give that...it seemed as though the roles reversed. I know we both had feelings for one another, but am not sure if we are both just scared or he sees me only as a friend or 'friend with benefits' and not as a potential long term partner, as he stated that he didn't think we would be compatible on a long term basis even though we make great friends and lovers. He insisted that I did not want a long-term relationship with someone like him, which made me feel as though he was pushing me away or warning me. I told him I couldn't see him anymore but I still have feelings for him and we talk occasionally. It is hurtful to me and I still feel like I want to pursue a relationship with him.

I have thrown a few questions. One was: What is the best way to pursue this relationship? And I threw 44.

These do not seem like good signs to me...but I am not great at interpreting the Iching. Any help/advice??

I also asked: What is the potential for a long term relationship between us? I threw 20 changing to 3.
What do I really mean to him? Threw 41 changing to 59. (1,5)
 
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Tim K

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After reading all the questions and their answers I think the main problem here is your fear that he will hurt you by not reciprocating your feelings of love. So you demand that he provides guarantees in the form of commitment first, and only then you can safely open up and express your love. This is somewhat immature way of thinking in my humble opinion. He can't guarantee his feelings in the long run (can anyone? ) so you decide to break-up the relationship.

In that key, let's see what's Yi is saying to you:
What is the best way to pursue this relationship? 44.0 (Coming to meet, Seduction, Powerful maiden)
Recognize that you are feeling drawn to him, allow it to happen, but don't be too bold and demanding.
Richmond:

The only trigram with any activity is that for the emerging life force, Sun, and we do not respond to this circumstance which comes to us in a rather rigid and formed shape. We cannot influence it because it has no changeability and we may not recognize its strength because of its gentleness. We need to remain alert and witness our desires rather than trying to fulfill them.

----------------------
The flow of oceans
does not yield to our swimming.
The place of planets
does not shift for our desire.
----------------------
He does not try to change what is so formed,
but meeting it he is so drawn
he must himself change.



What is the potential for a long term relationship between us? 20.1.6(Observe) -> 3 (Arduous beginnings)
Wilhelm:

1. Boy-like consideration. No error for a lesser person. Embarrassment for a noble.

Crowley:
1. Thoughtless and boyish: little shalt thou see!

Your view is too narrow, stand back, go to a higher point of view.

Crowley:
6. And criticise thy soul's true character.
Daniels:
6. Self-interest no longer clouds your perspective.
Richmond:
The superior man is one who experiences more widely, which is also less selectively.

Recognize that if you change your attitude and dismiss the preconceptions about relationships there will be progress and success (hex 3).

In my opinion you should allow yourself to just love him and be with him unconditionally. And if you don't get what you want - so what, that is an experience in itself.

Nigel Richmond, hex 3:
When they first come together there is a honeymoon, then a strength of will, then a compromise for the sake of travelling together.

You will have to compromise/to change if you want to be with him.
For me, both readings are pointing in the same direction - lower your demands and don't try to control the situation, to over-think it, just go with the flow.

What do I really mean to him? 41.1.5(Decrease) -> 59 (Disperse)

Richmond:
1. Going quickly when the work is finished is without error, but consider the effects of this.
The work is done, the outgoing breath is finished so there is a new breath coming. In practical life there are many breaths taking place together and out of phase so that they interact. Our breathing out in one respect is the breathing in of somebody or something else and if we leave suddenly this is a shock to the shared experience.


You are at the moment just a casual love interest for him? hmm.
Like he doesn't really think about you all the time.

Line 5 goes yang - less awareness of intuition.
There is one who gives him very many tortoise shells and who would not be refused.
Greatest good fortune.


Here we are no longer watching the feelings we have of the life force, we are trusting it and allowing it to be what it will.

Tortoise shells were used in China for oracle reading. When we are unconcerned whether we are feeling correctly we feel naturally and flow in the tao; this is the same as having the oracle in abundance.

He is a simple guy without any ulterior motives, he is going with the flow, without any plans for the future.

Transitional hex is: 41.1 -> 4.5(Youth/Immaturity) -> 59.
Legge: 4.5. Shows its subject as a simple lad without experience. There will be good fortune.
Yep, a simple lad without experience.

Richmond: 4.5 Immature experience brings advantage.
In this tao our intuitive state is not active. Our identity is more free to exper*ience its life if it does not worry about this at this time because it needs to face its experience outwardly. This line shows us free to experience as separate identity, which is what the tao asks for.


I think you should be more like him: simply accept your feelings, witness them and go with the flow, enjoy the good time you are having with him.
If it doesn't lead to a happy marriage - that is ok.

There was a good line somewhere, let me check.. aah here it is:
Richmond 42.5:
If you come from the heart and do not question, greatest good fortune. Genuine Involvement is the virtue recognized.

Questioning comes from the mind, flow from the feeling. The essence of the flow is to be genuinely in it, we cannot question a flow without stopping it.
 

tamorgana

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Ashteroid,

I can understand what you are saying about the immature ways of thinking. I should clarify that before telling him I couldn't see him, he told me "You do not want to be with someone like me", which implied to me that he was warning me or trying to tell me he was not capable of anything other than casual sex or a friends with benefits type situation. I thought he was trying to tell me to get away before I got hurt.

I was in a very physically and emotionally abusive relationship with my son's father before this and got cheated on and lied to quite often and there is a deep-seeded fear of entering another relationship where I am at risk of getting abused. I held on to that relationship for so long, hoping for change. I think now I tend to cut ties with people before there is a potential of being hurt. But yes...I agree that I am very bad with these things and there is a real fear of being lied to and I tend to shy away from people if I am feeling uncertain.

That said, the things you have said seem to apply to this situation in a very significant way. My understanding was that these hexagrams had a very negative connotation and that there was little benefit in continuing a friendship or relationship. Perhaps that is not the case? I am still not able to understand whether there is purpose in continuing a friendship/relationship or whether it is best to let sleeping dogs lie and allow both of us to move on.
 

Tim K

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So you had your share of bad relationships, I see. But you haven't given up completely - and that is wonderful. It takes courage to open up again.

These hexagrams are not very negative, you could have received far 'worse' ones. Like 24 return, 23 Separation, 51.4 Mudded shock, 4.6 punishment as a lesson, 56 move away, 6 Conflict, maybe even 54 - inferior position.

Yi is saying that this relationship does have a potential, that the guy is a simple lad, without any major plans for you in his future yet. Enjoy it while it lasts and see what happens.

tamorgana said:
I still have feelings for him and we talk occasionally. It is hurtful to me and I still feel like I want to pursue a relationship with him.
Isn't that an indication of your heart's true desire?
Well the choice is yours.

You can continue the dialogue with Yi, asking how will i benefit from continuing the relationship and then another question about leaving him.
 

tamorgana

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Hmmm

Yikes...well, I asked how I would benefit from continuing the relationship and got 43 (1,3,6) changing to six. Arrgh.

I also asked, what would be the result of walking away and threw 21 (1,3) changing to 56. Seems like maybe the best bet is to let sleeping dogs lie.
 

moss elk

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What is the best way to pursue this relationship? And I threw 44.
44: Do not marry him, it is only an affair.

I can speak to you from experience that if someone says, "I'm not right for you" or "We wouldn't be good together" or even "I'll end up hurting you." You should absolutely believe that they are speaking truth and then get yourself away from them.
 

tamorgana

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Reading

Well...I am not great at interpreting these things, but it seems to be pointing that it is best to walk away. I asked...what will be thre result if I walk away and give him space...and threw 19 (2,3) changing to 36.

It seems a bit contradictory to me :/
 

Tim K

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At first glance upon the new readings I was confused, but after reading Nigel's commentary it all fell into one place.

How I would benefit from continuing the relationship? 43.1.3.6(Break-through) -> 6 (Dispute/Conflict)
There is a chance to overcome some block in your life.
But, Yi is warning you not to enforce your own rules. Just allow the situation to develop on it's own. At the moment though, with your current state of mind, it appears that you will ignore this advice.
Richmond:
1. The first sign of inner movement is not the time to make outer action. We should not be too eager or we shall not have the support of the life force and whatever we do will be superficial and unsatisfactory.

3. Here we are not peaceful enough to withstand the anticipation of the tao and we create outer activity which will divert the life flow.

The cheekbones enable us to read determination in another's face; here there is this power of self-will which is misfortunate in this context because no amount of it can be effective and it produces stress with no flow for its relief. The wide-seeing superior man is just going about his business, not trying to push things, and this is correct in our present circumstances.


6. This whole tao is a watching for potential to manifest and this sixth line is the watcher of the emerging life force; if we cease to be alert it will catch us by surprise and we will be out of step with it. Witness your feelings and thoughts, I think this will allow to change the auto reflex like behaviour.

Hex 6 further describes your problem that you can solve:
Sureness of being right comes to a devel*oped identity who is sure of the rules (the restrictions in reality) that he lives by; this sureness meets obstacles at the bound*aries of his restricted reality where the rules no longer apply. We develop by chang*ing, which is to change the rules, so if we are very sure our rules are right this will serve us for a while (the middle) but later on,if we cannot change,this is disastrous to our growth or our ability to move with our environment which itself is changing all the time.
Great is wide; the great man sees widely, without restriction,and to do this will help, but the great water is a wide barrier between us and a changed way of being (the other country over the water) and to jump at change while we have narrow horizons would invite further difficulty.


Again, widen your view, change the rules/restrictions and you will grow. (initial 20 -> 3).
Internal is 1.2.4 -> 37(Society/Rules)
2. is advising to take a wider view.
4. to find a balance

What would be the result of walking away? 21.1.3(Biting through) -> 56 (Wanderer)
You are running away from your problems, returning to the old routine.

Richmond, 21:
That it is time for following the law comes from our inability to see the essence of our problem so that we have to follow the rules laid down by experience rather than act spontaneously. Following the law is restraining; biting througn might seem to indicate disregarding the convention, but we are now following it instead because we have lost our touch and it is to this that we are biting through, innerly not outwardly.

1. It might seem that if the life force became active in biting through our troubles would disappear, but the tao is the experience of being restrained by circumstances and there being no alternative. It is natural for identity to try to avoid this, so restraint is imposed by our greater being.

Somehow you will have to face this problem. A new guy will appear perhaps, but the situation will be alike this one.

3. In these circumstances where we are held fast by our ignoring of the life force no new experience comes to us and we use what we already have.

He bites dried meat and comes upon unpleasantness.
Some discomfort but no error.


Old experience that we have in our identity memory is like old dried meat; It contains things we did not wish to experience and repressed, and so we come upon these, which is uncomfortable but helpful to our biting through.

Your problem's roots are in the past. Yi advises you to face them, yes it knows that it will hurt, no pain - no gain.

56 just says that you are trying to run away, stay away, keep your distance from the problem.

Internal hexes: 39.2.4(Obstacles) -> 28 (Excess)
Legge:
2. Shows the minister of the king struggling with difficulty on difficulty, and not with a view to his own advantage.

4. Shows its subject advancing, (but only) to (greater) difficulties. He remains stationary, and unites (with the subject of the line above).

Going away leads nowhere, and the obstacles will pile up.
 

Tim K

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What will be the result if I walk away and give him space? 19.2.3 -> 36.
I suppose that is the 3rd option? the middle path, to take a time-out?

19 - Approach, being flexible, finding the right approach in every situation.
Crowley:
2. Advance with him - alliance wins the race.
Usually 'him' means intuition, gut feeling, but can be literally him.
Richmond writes about being flexible in your approach, with intuition for a guide you easily accept ever-changing circumstances.

3. Be cautious, or advance may lead thee astray.
If you are taking time-out, don't forget about this situation.

36 Darkening of the light, Daniels:
Hide your light under a bushel. Keep a low profile.
You hide yourself from the issue.

Internal hexes: 24.1.2.4 (Return) -> 40 (Liberation)
Crowley:

1. Correct small blunders - look for lucky wonders!
2. Hast erred? Return and take the proper way.
4. Return though all thy comrades say thee nay.


Yi advises not go on a detour(walking away), stay on your path of development.
Then you will achieve Deliverance.

Wilhelm, 40:
Thunder and rain develop: the image of deliverance. Thus the noble forgives mistakes and misdeeds.
 

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