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Hex 57 ~ What's it all about?

cellofellow

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Hi, all! I've used the I Ching for ages, but I realised recently that I've never really pinned down what hexagram 57 is basically about. Whenever I get it, I tend to think, hmm, bit subtle this, and that's about as far as my understanding of it goes. I'd love input from everyone! about this hex, but especially from Hilary and Chris Lofting.

I'll follow the thread but not reply immediately, as I'm off out now to a lovely music rehearsal, playing pre-war stuff by Ivor Novello arranged for 'cello and piano! Can't wait! Byee!
 

hilary

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'Subtle' and 'hard to pin down' - are you sure you need any help with this one?
happy.gif


Pause.

Yes, I do see what you mean.

Well, xugua and zagua are good places to start when looking for 'keywords' for hexagrams. They say 57 means 'entering in' and that it's 'hidden away'.

57 can be something hidden inside, something intrinsic, making its presence felt. LiSe puts this best:
"The blueprint or the seal that one carries, decides all what one is or does. It penetrates every action like wind or roots can enter anything. It has no name, often its existence is not even known, but it is always there and directs everything one does or thinks. It decides the way one listens or looks to the world."

It can also be any action of entering into something: getting inside the current, into its form and nature. The wind enters into spaces and roots enter the soil structure. If the pianist plays a chord of C, your 'cello joins in by itself. Or see the story of the master butcher.

In the lines especially, it often seems to be a particular desire to 'get into' something' and understand it from the inside out. This is distinct from acting on something or 'grasping' it: you and it become mutually permeable.

The Daxiang (aka Image) talks about how an inwardly-felt influence moves outward. When the junzi 'spreads commands', s/he is actually passing on a personal mandate.

(*Passing on the baton*)
 

dobro p

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LiSe's idea talks about how it *informs* what happens. The other idea talks about how it *enters into* something.

57 might be about both of those things, but for me, they're different things. For me, if it informs what happens, that's more 58.

I see 57 as 'going into' and 58 as 'coming out of'. And I love the way that 58 seems more 'auspicious' to me than 57 (and no thanks, I don't feel like a discussion about auspiciousness lol). Cuz if I'm right about the distinction, and right about the relative auspiciousness of the two hexes, then it means that it's more auspicious to allow 'it' to express itself than for you to go into 'it'.
 

cellofellow

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I love the story of the master butcher. This kind of thing has happened to me extremely rarely with playing. I've just heard the music happen and been totally unconscious of the movements I made to make it happen. If only this was always the case! A few more years of wielding the knife should do it . . .

About hex 58: I've always considered this as being about joy. Do you see more in it than just that, Dobro?
 

dobro p

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I've taken part of my understanding from the structure of the trigram, which has something to do with mouths and speaking, and something to do with two yangs 'breaking into' expression with the top yin. That, plus Karcher calling it 'Open', but I feel it's more like 'opening up'.

So if 58 is expression and open and pleasing, then 57 would be the complementary form of movement, no? Something along the lines of 'going into' rather than 'coming out of' or 'opening up'. I think the 'joy' and 'pleasure' meaning is an aspect of the opening up, but not its main meaning.
 

gene

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That's a very good analysis Hilary. In hexagram 56 one travels about. In hexagram 57 one travels within. In hexagram 58 one shares their discoveries. Hexagram 57 is 5 away from hexagram 52. The fifth hexagram is about nourishment. When we meditate, and calm our mind, as in hexagram 52 we both nourish our inner being, and shed light on the subject. Inner truths become more apparent to us, not by sudden enlightenment, as in hexagram 51, but by the "still small voice" that only becomes apparent in quietness and a calm mind. Wind trigrams usually relate to commands or teachings in some way. In hexagram 57 we receive the "mandate of heaven" so to speak. Hexagram 20 with the wind above, speaks of contemplation, and contemplating the mandate of heaven. In 57 we contemplate within rather than from without.

Gene
 

gene

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Five away from hexagram 51 is 56. When we have sudden enlightenment, sudden discovery, then we can truly expand our mind, as 56 is about expansion and travel, travel both within and without.

Gene
 

lightofdarkness

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57:

From the universal perspective we have a focus on contractive binding; it means to share time with another - it represents such notions as a contract where, once complete. those concerned go their own way without any issues, and hopefully having gained some benefits. The contractive focus means a focus 'within' etc.

A bond (mountain, lake) is the sharing of space with another and so seperation can be an issue, residue remains. A bind is entanglement of some form from which you can disentangle and so there is a time element involved, be it 'new' (thunder) or 'delayed' (wind).

Move into the IC proper and thunder covers immediate, in your face, change (you will change NOW, new idea/paradigm appears 'suddenly', explicitly) whereas wind is delayed, it represents building up - as a mist can develop into a fog or a light wind into a tornado or the raw being refined. Overall the surroundings change and force a change within you etc to adapt.

Wind as such is more subtle in its influences, it can sneak up on you and so force adaptation - to get people to change you can either point the gun at their head or else change the furnishings, the surroundings, and so they are forced to adapt (wind) (and so Hilary's pick up on your use of 'subtle' and 'hard to pin down'! ;-))

As such, wind in the LOWER position reflects a focus on cultivation; wind in the UPPER position reflects a focus on becoming influencial.

57 as such reads "with cultivation comes influence"

If we focus on the genetic elements of the hexagram some examples are:

Its beginning (its 24-ness) is represented by analogy to the under-stated qualities of hexagram 09 - making small gains (to eventually become noticed)

Its basic architecture, infrastructure (27-ness) is represented by analogy the under-stated qualities of hexagram 05 - we wait for our opportunity to 'bloom'; note the time emphasis and the sense of 'cultivation' where the waiting includes networking with others (socialising) to build up connections for later.

Its 'completion', its 63-ness is represented by analogy to the under-stated qualities of hexagram 41 with its focus on distillation, concentration - the cultivation has been successful (decrease in its figurative form, something refined and 'pure' is producted) or a failure (decrease in its literal form)

The eight hexagrams that make up the wind octet in the binary sequence all cover a basic context of cultivation issues:

46,18 48,57 32,50 28,44

Structurally 57 shares space with 48 and so the overall focus on some form of foundation setting - unconditional in 48, conditional in 57.

If we make the pairings of potential/actual in this octet (derived through 'opposites' pairing within the octet) so we have the pairs of

potential - actualisation (exaggeration)

46 - 44
18 - 28
48 - 50
57 - 32

Here 57 pairs with 32 where the subtle influence of 57 has been exaggerated into a sense of commitment (32). (and so for the others 44 represents the exaggeration of 46s focus on entanglement; 28 represents the exaggeration 18, of correcting 'wrongs', going the extra distance etc; 50 represents the exaggertion of foundation setting (48), we start to cook)

If we map-in Five Phase then wind is part of the realm of RE-PRODUCTION (aka WOOD) as compared to thunder that is also WOOD but focuses on PRODUCTION (something 'new'). From a socioeconomic perspective, Wind covers cultivation to produce and so over time and there is not much innovative creativity, more adaptive creativity. (as such it also covers such hexagrams as 18 with its focus on issues of neglect, corruption etc) - the focus is on context pushing rather than text pushing (as in thunder) and so, in general, adaptations to external change that pushes one's buttons.

I think there is enough above to aid in your reflections ;-)

For a summary of the full list of the 64 'genetic' elements, see the line meaning section of:

http://www.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/x110110.html

Chris.
 

lightofdarkness

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I forgot the 'variations on a theme' perspective that is also possible given a recursion-derived set of categories:

Take the octet:

46,18 48,57 32,50 28,44

and form it into two threads - yin and yang to get

46, 18, 48, 57 (yin thread)
32, 50, 28, 44 (yang thread)

Here the pairing is of 57 with 44 where 44 represented the 'yang' expression of 57, as 57 represents the 'yin' expression of 44.

44 reflects the 'seduction' element, the 'persuasive' element needed in cultivating/influencing etc whereas 57 is 'softer'.

For the others we have the same patterns of 32 being the variation of 46, 50 of 18, 28 of 48.

Due to the recursion so all is linked together such that there are LOTS of pairs etc usable to bring out aspects of a particular hexagram etc.
 

cellofellow

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Yikes, thanks for that lot! You're a helpful bunch!

I just thought, maybe 57 and 58 are slightly less drastic versions of 23 and 24. They seem kind of similar to me. I'm not sure quite how to explain this hunch, coz it's only just occured to me!
 

lasublime

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I just asked the I ching "what do you think of me, tell me the truth" and I got unchanging 57!!
and 'alors' what am I to think of this.
 

lasublime

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and I just asked a second question , 'what blueprint do I carry?' and received the answer 46.2 ,15. I must admit I was a bit distraught when I asked these two questions, but...
 
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bruce

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Hi Lasublima,

Interesting question. I think LiSe's translation/interpretation works especially well here. Seals Bestowed, is what she names it.

"The blueprint or the seal that one carries, decides all what one is or does."

So to me it sounds like the Yi is saying "I see you as you."

46.2-15. Be true to you, to your seal, and grow in yourself.
 

brian

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Xun--wind above and wind below, having to do with the nature of true inspiration, having to do with the way in which something is followed and how it is something leads.

The wind coming down and flowing over the ground, taking up within itself everything that is not firmly attached to the earth--everything else being moved in its place. The humble and the compliant bending and swaying to the movements of the wind, the rigid and firm resisting, with the risk of being broken.

Often times the desire to have is ultimately the desire to become, and the desire to hold something is the desire to embody the same.

Retaining through forfeiture, a classic example of simple logic.
 

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