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I think the "misfortune in the eighth month" bit has always caused confusion...
Hmm..as I write this out I have the lyrics of Show Me Now from My Fair Lady running through my head: "Words, words, words, first from him now from you, is that all you blighters can do?...Don't talk of Love, lasting through time, make me no undying vows, show me now!"
Tuck, nothing personal, but I think your association between ruler-ship from above as a method of serving the people is not representative of the meaning of democracy; nor can I equate it to Confucianism, which I understand to be closer to merit-ism than authoritarianism.The approach of the hexagram Lin can be also paraphrased as supervision and management from the viewpoint of the one above ruling the one below, nowadays in terms of democracy, to lead and serve the people.
In my opinion the norm of Lin, the big one approaching the small one as well as the one above approaching the one below, is appropriately carried out from start to finish at every line step of hexagram 20 as the word of Lin (臨) exists in every line text, thus all the lines are teeming with fortune and no calamity.Would you assign a specific line to the eighth month warning? One might assume it would be the last lines but they all are positive. Maybe 19.3? It being the top of the lower trigram could it be the masses rising up and saying, "Come on, get on with it!"
Hi, Rosada:Thank you very much for writing this all out Tuck!
Thinking more about the calamity predicted in the eighth month. Charly mentioned that perhaps this would be some reference to the eighth month of gestation. That makes a lot of sense both literally and symbolically. When a woman reaches the eighth month of a pregnancy she typically becomes particularly careful so as to not initiate a premature birth. Or perhaps the warning is symbolic, suggesting the idea that life is short, we thought we had nine months but it turns out we have only eight.
咸 xian2: all / full /My son had bought a house in New Orleans and was in the process of renovating it with the intention of opening a bed and breakfast. I had asked, "How to make this project a success?" I received 19.2.4 > 51.
19.2 Joint approach, good fortune. Everything furthers.
Wilhelm notes, "everything earthly is transitory."
至 zhi4: to arrive // the most /19.4. Complete approach. No blame.
The day he completed the renovation and had everything in order including insurance...
Whose was the hand that led him to the insurance agency?51. Shock.
Because he had insurance he actually came out ahead but it certainly wasn't the "success" he had been aiming for.
19.2: Lucky and no without profit
19.3: No wrong
19.4: No wrong
19.6: Lucky and no wrong
Tui seems to give life to Earth, gives feelings. What a nice guideline for managers ,parents, rulers, etc. The king leaves its throne and goes where he should be, down there.Just as the lake is inexhaustible in depth, so the sage is inexhaustible in his
readiness to teach mankind, and just as the earth is boundlessly wide,
sustaining and caring for all creatures on it, so the sage sustains and cares for
all people and excludes no part of humanity.
LIN: The character is composed of a man bending over (1), with a vertical eye (2): a slave, vassal or officer (GSR 377). Bending makes your eye vertical.
Hi, María:that is really interesting. Never noticed before. Says a lot about the nature of 19.
Tui seems to give life to Earth, gives feelings. What a nice guideline for managers ,parents, rulers, etc. The king leaves its throne and goes where he should be, down there.
Hi, Dora:a couple of other things that may make sense in terms of the 8th month:
-Persephone, queen of the Underworld and daughter of Demeter, goddess of agriculture rises each year and brings to her mother joy which makes the lands prosper-the time for farming arrives. After 8 months though she has to return to Hades causing wintertime to arrive
-the story of the ant and the grasshopper, again misfortune strikes so better be prepared
Thanks, Tuck:Hi Dear Charly,
I am awaiting you.
咸xian2 of咸臨 can not be interpreted as: all or full .
It is normal that your dictionary only provides you with these two common explanations.
Wilhelm translated 咸, the name of Hex 31, as influence (wooing) but I think better to call it telepathy as it is between the masculine and the feminine without physical contact, and it is before Hex 32, the marriage. 19.1 is a telepathic approach from the masculine line 1 to the feminine line 4, this must be done by heart instead of force.
至zhi4 of 至臨 does means: to arrive and it is from a higher position to a lower position, like line 4 approaching line 1. Due to its proximity to the bottom trigram, such approach is taken for a close and friendly action to those below, i.e. a people loving and intimate approach. Most likely sooo won’t agree at this, but Confucianism does promote so called benevolent policy to the people, which is the way to avoid misfortune in August of Hex 20, i.e. losing their votes.
of course !Hi, María:
Nice of course, although I don't trust too much in that angelical kings. I believe that kings didn't leave the throne very often. They used to send a minister or an officer.
Maybe you believe that the upper trigram EARTH is the representative of DEMETER and lower trigram DUI the representative of PERSEPHONE?
Good idea, the cycle of vegetal life always was associated to de cycle of human life.
LIN can be translated as ADVENT maybe with the same religious sense.
Upper EARTH, generosity, condescending with lower POND, joy, pleasure.
Pleasure at the service of reproduction. Low drives at the service of high goals.
I continue thinking that H.19 has to do with CHILDBIRTH and its conditions. H.19 has to do with LOVE.
I love the folkstories with animals.
Thanks, Tuck:Hi Rosada,
Thanks for sharing your experience. I do agree with you and admire what Charly is doing, word by word, and makes use of a life example.
Very often A Chinese will paraphrase an ancient Chinese writing completely differently from what B Chinese does, and the comprehension of a I Ching text can be for granted completely different from A person to B person due to different life experiences and …....
My first I Ching class was to study the basics of hexagram; therefore I always interpret the text from its images, the line performance and so on; of course, many Chinese do the interpretation as Charly does.
Oh, but I do! I'm no Confucian expert (one of the reasons I appreciate your contributions), but I've always perceived the ultimate goal of Confucius' teaching being to serve the people through exemplary leadership.Most likely sooo won’t agree at this, but Confucianism does promote so called benevolent policy to the people..
I know. But I believe that to put the interpretation in historical context is not the same that make it compliant with the dominant ideology of that times....
Zhou Yi was written approx. three thousand years ago, wherein the society did exist with the masculinity representing superiority, as well as the king and the courtier …... Additionally the I Ching is regarded as 經jing like 聖(sheng4: holy)經, the Bible, because it is a philosophy of life to Chinese. Therefore it is paraphrased according to the different roles that people play at each level in that society and the era of that hexagram. Although it is based on an old society, it depends on how we utilize the spirit of each hexagram and its text, and adopt it for our life today.
I know that you have study much. Glad that you are open to change.Dear Charly, you don’t have to agree with me or accept my interpretation. But I have to say, most of my interpretations are according to the books made by a professor in China who passed away at the age of 99 and had devoted his entire life to the I Ching, and had studied, and made comparison among, various argumentations, and according to the principle of the book, 周易集註彙編 (Zhou Yi Ji Zhu Hui Bian: the compilation of Zhou Yi annotations made by the ancient masters from the perspective of image and line performance) which was written in the Qing dynasty, and from the class held by a I Ching master in Taiwan who was the I Ching teacher of the former President of Taiwan and who are trying to convert the I Ching for the modern business operation or company management, of course, as well as my own comprehension after years study.
I do not mean what I interpret is correct, and actually I am still making corrections on my website, but what I am trying to do is to make a presentation to the western world what is the I Ching and the I Ching study usually Chinese mean.
The historical context is invaluable. And yet, I've lost count of howZhou Yi was written approx. three thousand years ago, wherein the society did exist with the masculinity representing superiority, as well as the king and the courtier
And yet, modern as we all may be, there are some elements of humanI would like to see you replacing only some words like...
MALE AMBITION instead of MALE SUPERIORITY
FEMALE GENEROSITY instead of FEMALE SUBMISSIVENESS
LOW PEOPLE instead of VILLAINS
TENDER instead of WEAK
In my opinion, from the perspective of truly interpreting an ancient article, it is essential to go back to that period of time, stand at the position of the writer and think. Are we trying to seek the true significance of the I Cning or not? It might be difficult to you but it is of less problem to me since those histories are part of my life, and I am trying to do my best and by all means.to put the interpretation in historical context is not the same that make it compliant with the dominant ideology of that times.
Neither art nor nature are perfectly symmetrical.In my opinion, one of the reasons that the I Ching can become so great and exists up to now is: each hexagram, each line of a hexagram, each sentence of the text and each word of a sentence are so well organized in such a precise and tight layout; it is a piece of art and a great art.
You put it all in words so nicely. It all is indeed a very complex matter....but just how to locate the answer. It involves people’s understanding of the text, enlightenment and many other things, for instance, some people take Hex 1 for a bad omen of marriage or an expected love story since Kun, Hex 2, hasn’t appeared yet, and take Hex 50 (innovation) for the recovery of a sick chlid but the death of an old, sick man (since Din was a ritual vessel in the shrine)
Divination is a very complex subject, especially with involvement of accuracy. It must be treated case by case, sometimes, person by person.
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