Hexagram# 22.9@top > Hexagram# 36.....Hmmmmm

[grndultimte]

Hello all,

As of late feeling a little mis-directed, I consulted Yi with:

"What area of my life should I be focusing all my energy and time on right now?"

Interesting answer because I thought I would get some clarity on either pursuing employment or finding an apartment. But I received #22 9 @ the top etc. I don't understand Yi telling me to adorn myself with virtue? To seek the truth here, no matter what the cost? I'm getting from Hex# 36 not to show my intelligence (hey!!! somebody thinks I'm smart). I guess I'm really having trouble making the connection to these hexagrams and the 2 main concerns at least in my mind at the present- job, apartment.

Am I being told to focus on my character? my values in all my affairs? As always, I'm grateful for any comments.

G

 

[yly2pg1]

Hi G,

Yes, 22(9@top) has lots to do with the values you cherish especially at the time of Hex36.

Sometimes Hex36 refers a time of darkness.
Sometimes it is like kinda of a 'custody'.
One may feel tight-up and confined to a certain way of life which he or she desires the least.

Bounded with some limitations, adopting a simple and basic values in accord with the one's situation
is very important. It may be helpful to check and filter out the values which fuels the power of Hex36 (if you are able to perceive each and very Hexagram is a pool of energy level).

 

[dobro p]

Yly, why are you putting so much emphasis on Hex 36 when what he drew was Hex 22?

22.6 talks about plain and simple adornment. Apparently that's what your life needs now - adornment. Nothing fancy, simple stuff. This has got nothing to do with values, cuz Hex 22 is mostly about appearances and surfaces (values mediate between the Creative and outer expression, they're not on the surface like Hex 22).

I've never seen the connection between 22.6 and Hex 36, unless 'hiding your light' is an extension or echo of simple adornment.

Make your life more beautiful in simple ways.

 

[gene]

A single changing line always has a relationship with the hexagram that it changes into. They have something about them that completes the context. Especially in a time of darkness is it necessary to maintain "plain and simple adornment." When there is only one changing line it is not necessary for a decent reading to read the relating hexagram, because the meaning is implicit in the reading of the line. However, for a deeper understanding of the I Ching, it is necessary to study them together.

Gene

 

[dobro p]

Yes, but you don't focus on the relating hexagram. The main focus in on the hexagram you draw. It's a matter of priorities.

 

[grndultimte]

***When there is only one changing line it is not necessary for a decent reading to read the relating hexagram, because the meaning is implicit in the reading of the line. However, for a deeper understanding of the I Ching, it is necessary to study them together.***

Hey Gene,

Can you explain this a little more? I'm understanding this to mean that no matter what hex one draws, if you only have 1 changing line, that line is closer to Yi's advice? The changing hex is not as "strong" in its meaning?

G

 

[gene]

Hi G

Yes, the changing line is the reading, but...and this is something I have been meaning to relate anyway...the I Ching is not just a reading. It is an overall complex system of life. It is the "way" and to use the I Ching merely as a divination tool is to "Not eat the fat of the pheasant." (hex 50 line 3) It is also to have a "clean well, yet no one drinks from it."

Every hexagram, every line in the I Ching, is an indication of "how the superior man lives." When it says in hexagram 40, "Thus the Superior Man pardons mistakes and forgives misdeeds," it means this is the way one is to live. It does not apply only when one receives this hexagram. The information that is inherent in the I Ching is from heaven, it is not from earth, and was a gift to us from higher intelligences to teach us how to live. Thus it is a matter of foolishness to argue with its wisdom.

As a slight diversion here, look at Stephen Karcher's newest book on the I Ching. On his interpretation of the lines, in most cases under the direction part, he relates the meaning of that line to the relating hexagram. The lines do not change to another hexagram by accident. There is a similarity of meaning between any changing line and the hexagram it turns into.

When darkness rules in the land, when we are controlled by totalitarian governments, as Ken Wen was before the revolution, it is important to maintain simplicity. This is because to do otherwise would bring attention to ourselves which, with a totalitarian ruler, might lead to suspicion.

A more obvious answer. Look at hexagram 57 line 5. When this line changes we have hexagram 18. In 57 five it says, "Before the change three days. After the change three days." Now look at the judgment in hexagram 18. Almost the same words. Hexagram 9. "Line six. The rain comes and there is rest." But not until the sixth line. Man cannot create the rain, it comes when it does and we can only wait. Hexagram 9 line 6 changes into hexagram 5, waiting. there is always a connection, though sometimes it is not quite so obvious.

Gene

 

[dobro p]

Yes, there's often a connection, but that still doesn't mean you emphasize the relating hexagram over the primary one.

 

[heylise]

Dobro, I do not at all disagree with what you say, but I don't think you can 'know' this for someone else. You can only know it for yourself. Everyone has his/her own relation with the Yi, and they are all different. Yi is not static.

LiSe

 

[grndultimte]

Hello All,

I've read and re-read this post/responses all day, meditated on them, and now I'm back again. From reading the above posts, I think I may have a clearer understanding of the Yi and the changing lines. I also have additional questions!!So here it goes:

1. When one casts a gua, any changing lines are-
1.1 accents to the deeper qualitites of
that tri-gram, and, the gua?

2. Question: How strong an influence is the changing line(s) that connects the original hex and the secondary?

I consulted Yi earlier with:

"What do I need to know now?"

and got Hex# 13 9 @ 1st, 6 @ 2nd, 9 @ 3rd > Hex# 6

So as a total novice still, I can clearly see that the 1st tri-gram "Radiance" has ALL changing lines!!! But I don't think I still understand the energy associated with that? All three changing lines change into tri-gram "Gorge". Does this mean that "Gorge" in Hex#6 is extremely strong? Major question that I just thought of folks, when you do draw a tri-gram/hex with all moving lines, which one is the most dominant? Today I found myself saying "O.K., the 1st tri-gram has all moving lines, and the lines have something different to say. I wonder which one I need to really pay attention to?"

3. Given a casting like Hex# 13 9 @ 1st, 6 @ 2nd, 9 @ 3rd > Hex# 6, does one pay more attention to the 2nd tri-gram in the secondary Hex since all 3 of its lines changed?

*****Thanks everybody***** before this I never really had an understanding of the lines. I'm not saying I do now, but I feel as if a layer of the onion has been peeled and I think I'm getting a little more than before.

G

 

[gene]

As Heylise was saying, this is a matter of personal interpretation. Let me continue on that in a moment in regard to the most recent post, but first go back to that about the changing line being the most dominant. Yes, it is. My only point is that understanding the connection can lead to a deeper understanding of the I Ching.

And now before I get to your most recent post, G, I am going to say that the above is true even when there is more than one changing line. This gets too complex to give a simple answer, but I will try, as time is of the essence. And I haven't developed this with every changing line. I am still learning to, even with 25 years, I am still as much a novice as anyone...

An example might be hexagram 50 with the 5th and 6th lines changing. With two or more lines changing, the judgment of the hexagram as a whole becomes more important, and the changing lines indications of any number of things irrespective of the meaning of the individual lines. A combination of deep understanding and intuition become necessary. In hexagram 50 line five and six are neither one in their proper places, hence you might expect a negative connotation for them, but due to the judgment of the hexagram as a whole, they are quite proper. The fifth line is normally the line of the ruler, the sixth that of a sage. In the case of hexagram 50, the ruler, line 5 is hollow, that is empty and therefore receptive. Line six is yang and therefore imparts the teaching. Since the fifth line is receptive, it can receive the teachings of the sage in the sixth. When these two lines change, the resulting hexagram is 28. One of the secondary meanings of hexagram 28 is a transition. For in order to keep the structure from crashing down, it must be renovated or restored in some way. In hexagram 5, the ruler who receives the instruction from line 6, becomes no longer hollow, but a strong king who can lead the empire out of the old, (hexagram 49), into the new. In other words, the king and the empire go through a transition.

While I don't have time right now to analyze the hex 13 reading, right away, I notice that the hexagram is about relationships, (not necessarily, but could be primary relationships, but more the interaction of all peoples in a harmonious way.) Here we are talking about relationships of the hexagrams. One thing strikes out at me, and with further study, I could change this altogether, but for now...line one says, "All are equally close to one another." In other words, we are to look at the reading as a whole and not to analyze it into parts. Doing so leads to humiliation. (line 2) When we divide it into parts we tend to make the same mistake that originally created the universe, that of polarization into opposites, and when that happens, "we hide weapons in the thicket." If we try to analyze the parts, instead of look for a harmonious whole, we can only come to conflicts within ourselves. (There is an example of how multiple changing lines lead to the relating hexagram.) For now, let's leave it at that, as for me, time is running short, and I need to look at this more deeply.

Gene

 

[gene]

G

At looking at your original question at the top, I realize we, or I, have gone far afield from that. I will answer that question as soon as I can. As for now, I doubt it is telling you to hide your intelligence, more likely, to go through any interview or questioning with a sincere and simple attitude, straight from the heart you might say, but I am curious, you seem to be relating the answer to two different questions? Is it the employment you are concerned about? Or the apartment.

Gene

 

[dobro p]

"Dobro, I do not at all disagree with what you say, but I don't think you can 'know' this for someone else. You can only know it for yourself. Everyone has his/her own relation with the Yi, and they are all different. Yi is not static.

LiSe"

Yeah, fair enough. But if in my view somebody's way off base I think it's also okay for me to challenge it on an internet forum like this. I mean, this *is* where we talk about it and compare ideas, right?

 

[grndultimte]

Hey Everyone!!!!,

Thanks Gene!!! As to your last post, the reason I was consulting Yi with ""What area of my life should I be focusing all my energy and time on right now?" is because I don't know where I should be focusing? I need to find a new place to live, however, I'm not hurting for $ right now because I'm on unemployment compensation. Both areas of my life are important. Some people I spoke with think I should find a job ASAP, others think do to my living situation it should be an apartment.

On one hand I'm cool financially for another 4-5 months, but not "doing" something is kinda driving me crazy. On the other hand, it's really time for me to move on from where I'm living and especially from the roomate I have...we just don't get along, but we're civil right now and I could put up with it for another 2-3 months until I find a nice place. I'm just not clear right now as to where I should be spending time/energy. This is what was behind my original question to Yi. That's why I'm a little puzzled by "Adorning" for a Hex?

G

 

[yly2pg1]

Hi G,

I come to know your situations in your recent post (Yi Jing hiatus).
The situation may have prevailed for quite some time (one or two years?), if i can remember well.
This is a typical situation of Hex36. It takes time to come out.
That is why i keep your situations in mind.

As Gene said, Yi is not just about reading. It is about life! ... an overall system of life.
I hope i do not merely interprete a reading based on the what you acquired within a snapshot of time.
You seem to understand this very well, go for meditation and allow time to flow to let each and every message
falls in its right place.

BTW 22.6 could also signal a grace period in the dark. Be simple and pure!

 

[gene]

Hi G

A couple things I might say. First, I am not quite sure how you formulated your question. And it also sounds like you might be asking two things with the same reading.

With that being said, hexagram 22 is partly about acceptance. There is an underlying thread in the hexagram, though it is not obvious in the English translations, usually, of a suitor asking for the hand of someone who is above his station. In the end he is accepted. If I know more about your actual question, I may be able to apply it more.

Another meaning of hexagram 22 as a whole, not necessarily with the sixth line changing, is that "controversial issues cannot be decided in this way." The light is at the foot of the mountain, and as such only lends "grace to the mountain," and is not enough light to clearly decide issues. That is done in hexagram 21. My feeling is that you may need to more specifically define your question before you ask. Or maybe you did and I just haven't gotten it.

Hope this helps
Gene

 

[grndultimte]

Hey Gene,

Thanks for your reply and taking time to review my post. Thanks also to Yly2pg1, Dobro,and of course you to Heylise. Gene, you wrote:

"First, I am not quite sure how you formulated your question. And it also sounds like you might be asking two things with the same reading."

Let me clarify to the best of my ability. Right now in my mind there are 2 major areas of concerns. One is finding an apartment, and the other is looking for employment. The employment can kinda wait because of finacially o.k. with the UC (unemploymnet compensation). However, maybe it shouldn't wait. So, I decided to consult Yi to help me figure out where I should be spending my time. So I formulated my question in hopes of Yi giving me some sort of direction here.
So that's why I formulated the question as:

"What area of my life should I be focusing all my energy and time on right now?"

But maybe I didn't formulate the question as effectively as I could have? If so, believe me everyone I'm totally open.

Question: In casting my hexagram I wasthinking of my question and both areas of my life (apt, job), and the confusion I was feeling toward both. Could my thinking about 2 different things have clouded the casting? Is that even possible? If it is, is this why I'm perhaps feeling puzzled?

I've learned from my own experience and from many of you that one should not keep asking the same question over, and over, and over again to the Yi. It tends to cloud the issues right? So instead of asking the question or similiar questions, I really wanted to just sit with this answer and of course ask for all of your help in building my intuitiveness.

Gene, perhaps you are right though. Perhaps I may need to define my question by breaking them apart and asking 2 seperate questions. One about an apt and one about a job?

G

 

[heylise]

Hi Dobro

yes, here we discuss all our views, and every view has its own right. But the way you expressed yours, did not sound like discussing it, but like telling how things are.

When I get an answer, and I interpret it the way it 'should' be interpreted, then I can just as well forget about it. Only when my mind is free, I can hear what the Yi is saying. And sometimes the relating hexagram can be more important than the primary one. Sometimes I can skip the lines, sometimes the most important part of the answer is in the lines. Same with relating, and with primary hexagram. The relating hexagram can very well be the overall situation, the enduring part, and the primary the information what you can do about it in this moment, the temporary part.

So I don't think there are rules which are valid in all circumstances.

Lise

 

[grndultimte]

Heylise,

I can agree with your most recent post. Only because I believe that there are very few hard and fast rules in life. I'm still neophyte when it comes to the Yi. That's why a forum like this is soooo important to someone like myself. The Oracle speaks about life not just predictions, as Gene and Yly2pg1 pointed out.

And again, I'm at the same spot with this reading as I was when I started. I don't know how to "listen" right now to what the Yi is saying?

g

 

[dobro p]

Heylise - in your earlier post to me, you said: "I do not at all disagree with what you say," but now you seem to be disagreeing very much with what I said. So, does that represent an evolution of your views since you last posted, or were you just trying to be polite then? Or perhaps you feel you can be more honest with me now than you were before?

"But the way you expressed yours, did not sound like discussing it, but like telling how things are."

Well Heylise, I *was* telling how things are - from my vantage point. And if I think somebody's making a mistake, I often say so. Just like you did with me in this thread in your most recent post.

Or perhaps you don't like my style. It's not very gentle sometimes, that's for sure. But it's seldom vicious. Or do you think there should one style for everybody on this board?

"So I don't think there are rules which are valid in all circumstances."

Well, maybe you can apply the tolerance for different approaches to reading the Yi to different approaches to internet communication?

 

[heylise]

I do not disagree with what you said about the relating and primary hexagram. Not at all. But I do disagree with this being THE way to interpret them. It is one of the ways, and not a wrong way..
It had nothing to do with style. And ?one style? - huh? But there are many ways to say things, imposing, suggesting, debating, deliberating, urging, insinuating, arguing, the list is endless. Some are felt as sympathetic, others not. Some leave free, others intrude. Some initiate a lively debate, others silence. Everyone makes his own choice how to talk. Your choice is yours, and my reaction was not meant to make you change your way of exchanging, it was rather to make it clear to the listeners that your view was not the only one.

LiSe

 

[gene]

I probably come across like that a lot myself, as if my way is the only way, or its the highway. So Dobro really didn't bother me at all. I think Heylise does have a point though. I can find the answer anywhere, within the context of the reading of course. Usually if I use the Wilhelm Baynes, it jumps out at me right off the page, usually somewhere in the commentary. Ocassionally I have to go to a different author, as some stuff by W/B sounds archaic, but that is more because of my limited understanding. I am finding more and more, in the W/B, you have to put two and two together in order to come up with a deeper understanding, but that only comes with experience.

And I don't mean to sound like its my way or the highway, except when the answer is obvious and people just don't want to listen. Sorry about that....

Gene

 

[gene]

And G

yeah, it might be better to ask a specific question, even though you have already asked a general question, and this might be part of the answer you were given, simplify, so that you get down to the nitty gritty.

Gene

 

[heylise]

"What area of my life should I be focusing all my energy and time on right now?" 22.6 - 36

I usually take also a look at the fanyao, the corresponding line of the relating hexagram. Not as ?the answer?, but as an elucidation of the line you got in the primal hexagram. Especially when there is only one line changing. The place of a line is important, the top is very different from the bottom line, and both from the 3d line. For more information, see:
http://www.anton-heyboer.org/i_ching/structures/index.html

So the line of your primal hex and its fanyao are both talking about the same area of mind/life/whatever your question is about. The top line is the one which is most far away from practical tangible matters, from ?earth?. It deals most of all with the spirit. Focus on your spirit ? and then the line tells you in what kind of way.

22.6 ?White energy. Without fault.?
Value announces itself plain. It is easier to find truth, love or peace where things are simple. Lots of decoration usually are a sign of little essence. So be just what you are, without decorating it. Focus on the essential.
36.6 ?Not bright, dark. In the beginning climbing up to heaven, afterwards entering the earth.?
If you strive always to be on top, your fall may be devastating. One can only know about the light when one knows and accepts the dark too. Enter the dark and you will understand light. First low, then high. That's how things grow healthy and natural.
Be just what you are, not living up to unrealistic wishes, or to expectations of others.

And by looking only at the hexagrams: you live in this world where you have to be wary and hide your light most of the time (36, the context), so you need essentials for yourself, to live by. Yi tells you to do this in a simple beautiful way (22). Not by searching for deep wisdom, lofty ideals, all-embracing knowledge, but through seeing and appreciating the simple beautiful things of life.

LiSe

 

[martin]

"Not by searching for deep wisdom, lofty ideals, all-embracing knowledge, but through seeing and appreciating the simple beautiful things of life."

That is beautiful and simple LiSe. And true.
It took me 237 incarnations to discover it!

And I still forget it sometimes ..

 

[dobro p]

Heylise -

"my reaction was not meant to make you change your way of exchanging, it was rather to make it clear to the listeners that your view was not the only one."

Okay, thanks. Now I understand the motivation behind your posts better. But you know, I *assume* that listeners/readers won't take what I say as the only view. I'm no guru. I mean, how bright does someone have to be to realize that? Do people really need reminding?