Hexagram 32.1.2.6 changing to 30 - please help with interpretation...

[bruce]

a spanky, THEN a huggie.

omg, what a group!

 

[luz]

 

[frank]

Great... just a misunderstanding then... Please continue

 

[magdalena]

Frank, re: your earlier comment about other peoples egos, I found the thread of tremendous help, I always do but this one was especially great and informative and some of the comments really touched the right buttons. These open discussions are fantastic, I really enjoy reading them, and it makes it all the more interesting.

In fact I don’t know what I would do without this site…

 

[jesed]

Hi Magdalena

I know that your situation isn't easy. maybe you had notice that, in important issues, I suggest a "dialogue" with the Yi, from the most general to the concrete doubts. because, manytimes, the more concrete doubts ("should I leave him?") find
clariy when we put the in the whole context of our life.

So, in case this technique could be useful for you, I suggest you the following dialogue (Follow this questions in this order. First question/understand first question/second question keeping in mind the first answer/undertand second question at the light
of the first..and so on)

1.- General Diagnosis of the relationship between X and I

2.- Cualification of my position within the relationship between X and I

3.- Cualification of X's position within the relationship between X and I

4.- What is the best thing for me to do related to this relationship?

I hope that this dialogue will give you a clearest picture of the things that are going on in this important aspect of your life

best wishes

 

[magdalena]

Hello Jesed, I think that's a great idea, hopefully I won't end up with overcrowding this site with questions! I will definitely have a go, thank you so much for all your support!

 

[jte]

Back to the Native Am. saying for a sec...

"Do you love yourself enough to hear the other voices speaking?"

Thanks Bruce for your interpretation - it makes sense. Does that more or less match the original intent of this saying? Or does anyone know? Peace are you out there to follow up on this?

Wondering,

- Jeff

 

[bruce]

Hi Jeff, not really sure about the original saying Rosalie mentioned. Hadn't heard it before.

 

[peace]

Hi Jeff:

I heard this expression daily when I went on a Vision Quest a few years ago. I am certainly not an expert on Native American culture.
The expression was used twice each day when we sat in a "talking circle". It was a meditation at the beginning of the circle.

The idea was, that you have to have enough self-love, boundaries and flexibility to listen to what others are saying - as not to feel threatened by hearing a point of view that is new to you - that you are willing to perhaps revise your view of things, which could be major - to help you deal with reality and truth.

It helped me to gain the awareness that when I don't want to listen to something, many times I am afraid that if what I am hearing is true - I may have to change how I think about alot of things.

Just curious Jeff - what about that saying was interesting to you?

Rosalie

 

[bruce]

Wow, that's a great idea and philosophy.

 

[micheline]

It's a great quote. I would almost like to make it "Am I loving myself enough to hear the voice of others?" since self-love is often a process and not always a finished product.

I guess it can also depend on who you are interacting with, too. The thwarted communications going on of late in my large extended family give me a giggle when I read that line. It definitely requires an inner stillness of sorts to put it into practice! NOthing like a family of origin to call forth your woundedness ....to make you want to be a porcupine with earmuffs!

 

[jte]

Thanks Rosalie. "Just curious Jeff - what about that saying was interesting to you?"

In my case, I was wondering if maybe it had anything to do with synchronicity/omens. From what you wrote it appears it does not (although it's a valuable message prosaically as well).

Still curious - is it an actual Native American saying, like a proverb, or was it sort of created for the Vision Quest? (Or do you know for sure either way?)

Also curious, if you'd like to tell us about your Vision Quest, I'd be happy to hear about it. (And yes if you agree to, I really will be dragging this thread off topic. Rest assured, I'll be tossing and turning in bed tonight, riddled with guilt! =) ).

- Jeff

 

[magdalena]

Yes, and hauted by me

 

[peace]

Hi Jeff:

I do know the quote is Native American - or so they told us.
It is generally used in the talking circles - and there is a "talking stick" which the person who is speaking holds while they speak. This stick gets passed from person to person when they share experiences or have something to say to others.

The purpose of the Vision Quest, as I understand it, is to participate in a meaningful ritual to while one transitions from one stage to another stage in life. The thinking is that those of us in Western cultures no longer have that. An example would be puberty ceremonies in Africa, etc.
We tend to drink ourselves into oblivion or something similar instead of honoring our changes in life cycles.

The Vision Quest, which I went on, was 3 weeks of hiking, living outdoors the entire time (in a national forest in Montana), sleeping under a tarp (no tents) and schlepping a 75 pound backpack wherever you went.
We had lots of Native American rituals to do beforehand and lots of ceremonies during.
It was actually very good - although much more rustic than I was used to.

The peak experience was working up to a three day fast where you were totally alone in the woods, starving to the point of hallucination, purifying your water in streams (and hoping you didn't get malaria from the filthy ponds you took the water from) - praying you wouldn't be eaten by whatever was out there and surviving the experience.

Actually, I did enjoy it - didn't get that much out of it and would never do it again. But - some of the others (there were 20 of us) said it was a high point in their life.

And...it did get me to learn alot of new things about Native Indian culture, animals, chakras and not being so modest.

There's lots of literature on the web also.

Are you thinking of doing one??

Rosalie

 

[jte]

Thanks, that's interesting. From your description it sounds like a great experience but not as life-altering as one might hope.

No I don't think I would do it as it sounds like its "for the young" in terms of how much roughing it one would have to do. Also, generally I am not into seeking out new major mysteries in life - the I Ching has turned out to be enough of one in my case.

- Jeff

P.S. Magdalena: (just kidding, too) - J.