Hexagram 50 and Hexagram 22 both unchanging

[poised]

It's been a month since it ended, and I'm still rooting through the entrails, trying to understand why it was such a trainwreck of a relationship, tho it started out very nicely indeed. Don't they all.

Question: Who is he? 50 unchanging

Question: Who am I? 22 unchanging. Not the first time I got 22 for my inner workings.

Mr. 50 is, in my eyes, very good looking. So for starters, that seriously appealed to my facadish tendencies. Maybe that's all I need to say. Plus, he had a huge caldron of very interesting information that belongs in a book. Lots of internal value. He is not polished. He is more the diamond in the rough, his grammar needs work. But he's smarter than anyone I ever knew on a particular topic in a field I've worked in for years. There was a fire under that caldron.

22. I am polished. My childhood was about being absolutely correct in terms of manners, outward behavior, saying the right thing in the correct way at the right time, being a perfect, convent-trained lady. (Who else do you know who can do a formal French court bow? ) Being gentle, sweet, polite. Oozing charm. Dressing well, having excellent posture. You will NEVER know how I feel -- unless I tell you, which I won't. . Big sigh.

Professionally, I work in publishing, both as an author and as an editor. I have collaborated with those who have huge ideas and little talent, who could not possibly get published unless someone like me structured, rewrote, and presented those ideas in a dynamic form. I make dull people sound fascinating. Most of them are PhDs, MDs. I enjoy developmental editing, working with raw material to sculpt it into an interesting, even compelling, read. All very 22, and not even slightly superficial, I have to understand their stuff as well if not better than they do. I am tenaciously creative. Can usually find a way to "make it work" in the mainstream market--where the money is. I de-academicize stuffy academics.

When I write or present a speech, I rewrite for days, rehearse, and get it right. Then, during the presentation, I ad lib too, connect with audience to see what is working and make it work if it isn't.

So...50 and 22 started a book, and rapidly started a lovely affair as well. I wrote little 3-minute talks for Mr. 50, which we filmed. He absolutely could not get it right on the first three tries so gave up. "It's not me," he'd say. I rewrote again and again. And eventually wanted to bash him over the head with that tong. I did a thousand hours of research, outlining, adding what was necessary to make his ideas work in the book. He did not want to put enough effort into giving little speeches, fireside chats, if you will, for tv talk shows and certainly did not wish to develop an 18-minute TEDTalk, which he needed to do. I wrote, he publicized was our deal.

But he's a macho man, and I'm nothing but a woman. He wanted everything I could give him, but somehow did not want it from me. He did not pull his weight on this project. Fear of success, I think. And no patience for the process.




So what's Ms. 22 to do? Grow a beard? Learn to wrestle?

Anyway, I read a few threads on 22 earlier and just wanted to defend myself agains those who think Hexagram 50 is wonderful and good and Hexagram 22 is shallow. Not in my experience.

Your comments and observations are most appreciated. I'm open to seeing this through your eyes. :bows: :bows:

I am 100 percent out of this book, have moved on to two other projects. But want to see deeply into the problems we encountered and our lack of ability to solve them.

 

[anemos]

Hi poised,

interesting hexs but i'm not sure if your questions refer to the project or your intimate relationship. Is it 50 his part of the project or about his part in the relationship ? Likewise your 22 too.

what if for some reasons this book wouldn't get published. Lets say that all the publishers in this world would refuse to publish it, then what is left? what else bonds you two ?

 

[sooo]

Well, it makes a good story as it is, though it's, as yet, recorded only in your head. The best promoters of others are typically the absolute worst promoters of themselves and their works, though not entirely their ability to show 'n shine - the show must go on!

The Ting is a man made object, representing a certain inner process. It's highest use is considered sacred. Maybe Mr.50 feels that what he has is too precious to share, just yet. Or, it's not perfect therefore it's not worthy?

You can only work with those who are willing and able to work with you.

 

[Liselle]

The way you interpreted your readings seems very reasonable indeed, and quite possibly there is actually nothing to add. The following excerpt did catch my eye though, vis a vis your concern about hex 50 being "wonderful and good" and hex 22 being "shallow":

Professionally, I work in publishing, both as an author and as an editor. I have collaborated with those who have huge ideas and little talent, who could not possibly get published unless someone like me structured, rewrote, and presented those ideas in a dynamic form. I make dull people sound fascinating. Most of them are PhDs, MDs. I enjoy developmental editing, working with raw material to sculpt it into an interesting, even compelling, read. All very 22, and not even slightly superficial, I have to understand their stuff as well if not better than they do. I am tenaciously creative. Can usually find a way to "make it work" in the mainstream market--where the money is. I de-academicize stuffy academics.

"All very 22"...making something presentable and fascinating is certainly 22ish, but I think this also seems quite 50ish . You do much more than "polishing" grammar. You "transform" raw materials into finished products in ways that seem very substantive (at least to me, who knows nothing about the editing profession...). And you were trying to transform him in very substantive ways, too. The line between hex 50 and hex 22 seems blurred here.

To incorporate that, I wonder if it might be possible to attach a bit of subtext to your questions, looking at "Who is he?" and "Who am I?" in the sense of "Who are each of us to the other?" In that sense, his hex 50 could mean that to you, he was "raw material to be transformed." Your hex 22 could mean that in his eyes, you were to be the "polisher" of his work, and the lovely woman to have an affair with - but nothing more, which might explain why it didn't work. Maybe when you tried to "transform" him - both his written work and his public image (which was, after all, your job) - he couldn't handle that from you, because it's not how he saw you. (It should go without saying that this is a shame, and his loss.) [Edited to add: Maybe true, maybe a bit harsh...relationships not working out doesn't always mean either side is blameworthy. And mingling the professional with the personal is often tricky.]

Of course, "who are we to the other" was not literally what you asked, and so this might not be a valid way to interpret. But it seems like a small twist on the questions rather than a huge one, and it does fit with your own analysis ("But he's a macho man, and I'm nothing but a woman. He wanted everything I could give him, but somehow did not want it from me.")

[Second edit: Rewording the questions as I did makes me a bit nervous...it might be less problematic to think of it as, "Who are each of us in the relationship?" That's less of a change, while still getting at pretty much the same notion.]

Both these hexagrams being unchanging could simply mean that, ultimately, nothing here resulted in anything. The book was never published (as far as I can tell, or at least not by you). The speeches were never successfully delivered. The relationship is over (again, as far as I can tell). Who is he? Raw material that was unwilling, or unable, to be transformed (50 unchanging). Who are you? Someone whose efforts to "make beautiful" went nowhere.

But want to see deeply into the problems we encountered and our lack of ability to solve them.

Maybe these readings, together with your own intuition about the relationship, have answered this. If not, you could do another reading that specifically asks "why," like "Why were we unable to solve our problems?" or "Why were we unable to accomplish anything together professionally?" or "What hindered our efforts?"...something like that.

 

[rodaki]

He was a bottle
when you were a herb
can you see how difficult this was?


that's what sprung up in me - maybe a little crude a way to read all the wealth of Yi's symbols, but I thought it might stir a ripple or two


. . in a way, I find herbs to be a 'purer' ingredient than what comes out of a pot, or maybe, one closer to its original state, closer to the functions of its essence and going through the cauldron does not always promise a higher end result for what went in it in the first place - all a matter of contexts

 

[poised]

Good questions, anemos

Hi poised,

interesting hexs but i'm not sure if your questions refer to the project or your intimate relationship. Is it 50 his part of the project or about his part in the relationship ? Likewise your 22 too.

what if for some reasons this book wouldn't get published. Lets say that all the publishers in this world would refuse to publish it, then what is left? what else bonds you two ?

All publishers will refuse it because it's not in publishable form yet -- and never will be. So nothing bonds us. We haven't spoken in a month. I think the personal and publishing relationship(s) are one and the same. For both of us, the initial excitement was that we could do both. Yippee and all that.

I can write this book alone, and it will be different from the one originally envisioned. I explained to him that I'm oxygen and can do extraordinary things with his spark, his flame, his passion for the subject. But he refused to use the dictating equipment I gave him, and, imho, wimped out, crawled back into his nice sturdy heavy pot and pulled the cover over his head. We were like a couple on the dance floor who simply could not dance.

I'm as irritated with myself for not seeing this clearly from the outset as I am with his negativity. Without the lovey-dovey stuff, we might have done well as partners.

I don't love this topic enough to spend any more time on it. Ditto the relationship.

 

[poised]

precious?

Well, it makes a good story as it is, though it's, as yet, recorded only in your head. The best promoters of others are typically the absolute worst promoters of themselves and their works, though not entirely their ability to show 'n shine - the show must go on!

The Ting is a man made object, representing a certain inner process. It's highest use is considered sacred. Maybe Mr.50 feels that what he has is too precious to share, just yet. Or, it's not perfect therefore it's not worthy?

You can only work with those who are willing and able to work with you.

So right about those willing and able...I thought he was, but just a few months into it, he brought me flowers one day because I'd looked so tired the night before. And I was, because I was working my tush off. "The book doesn't matter," he said. He just wanted me to be healthy. I felt terribly misunderstood.

I'd already told him about my work habits, working in high-energy spurts until exhausted. It's wonderful to feel so intense, to be so involved. (The show must go on.) Everyone in my life has had to adjust to it. One of my husbands was the same way...my very longest relationship...two nightowl workaholics, how romantic was that?

Ting as manmade object. Interesting. He had a complex family background, not wonderful, and almost died at 33 from drugs and alcohol. He did make himself up, created a whole new person when he went into recovery. He never looked back. Great strength of character, it IS sacred to him and is also what I loved about him....gee whiz, soooooo, this is the first time I've had a single tender feeling for him in a month. That's perhaps a 22 moment?

I recently ran into a numerology/tarot system based on Crowley's work in a book by cultural anthropologist Angeles Arrien,The Tarot Handbook: Practical Applications of Ancient Visual Symbols. His tarot card, based on his birth numbers is 5, the Heirophant, the Pope, the foursquare rule-giving and -upholding counselor, uncomplicated, straightforward. Earthy. The illustration on the card was very square, cubical at best. Stodgy. Stuck at worst. I can visualize the image of a Ting superimposed over the Heirophant, wish I could photoshop it for you.

And I'm one of the few with not one but three cards: 1. The Magician, 10. the Wheel of Fortune, and 19. the Sun. Lucky, creative, and a natural collaborator. Round, in motion, driven, complex. Scattered at worst. I'm not seeing Hexagram 22 in here, but perhaps it's hiding under the roulette table until the wheel slows down. Is it red or black?

Maybe I expected too much from him. Maybe he expected instant book from me. And then we got grouchy and then surly and then passive-aggressive and it all fell apart. And there you have it.

Sad. Big sigh. And as always, thanks for pointing out the small but cruxy things I tend to overlook. (If cruxy isn't a word, it should be.)
:bows:
:bows:
:bows:

 

[poised]

"All very 22"...making something presentable and fascinating is certainly 22ish, but I think this also seems quite 50ish . You do much more than "polishing" grammar. You "transform" raw materials into finished products in ways that seem very substantive (at least to me, who knows nothing about the editing profession...). And you were trying to transform him in very substantive ways, too. The line between hex 50 and hex 22 seems blurred here.
...........
his hex 50 could mean that to you, he was "raw material to be transformed." Your hex 22 could mean that in his eyes, you were to be the "polisher" of his work, and the lovely woman to have an affair with - but nothing more, which might explain why it didn't work. Maybe when you tried to "transform" him - both his written work and his public image (which was, after all, your job) - he couldn't handle that from you, because it's not how he saw you. (It should go without saying that this is a shame, and his loss.)

Some wonderful observations, lisa. Many thanks. I was actually doing the writing, asked for but did not get tapes of his ideas even though I gave him dictation equipment. So the book was all on my shoulders. And publicizing it was all on his. This is the reality of the publishing business now; excellent promotion is just as necessary as a quality book. More to your point,though, is the transforming idea. Yes, you've really seen something about his resistance that I'd totally overlooked. And there's my 22-ness. Not excellent at understanding feelings.

Both these hexagrams being unchanging could simply mean that, ultimately, nothing here resulted in anything. The book was never published (as far as I can tell, or at least not by you). The speeches were never successfully delivered. The relationship is over (again, as far as I can tell). Who is he? Raw material that was unwilling, or unable, to be transformed (50 unchanging). Who are you? Someone whose efforts to "make beautiful" went nowhere.

Exactly. An enormously helpful view of 50 and 22. The efforts went nowhere. The relationship is over. I'd never considered that aspect of unchanging hexagrams, thanks for pointing it out.

We did have quite a lot of fun on a personal level, really good times until we didn't. It was never meant to be a lasting relationship, we knew at the beginning that we were too different to spend more than a few years together. We thought three, but only lasted two years. And that was enough. My real regrets are about the book, because there it sits, unfinished, and still full of potential--and some excellent information that should get out there. But on the other hand, there it sits. And I may get back to it after the upheaval and resentments and anger and emotional angst have passed. Truthfully, I was crazy about him. My downfall, it was unwise, he was not a safe person to have feelings about.

If you ever see me back here asking questions about this personal relationship, please remind me NOT TO DO THAT.

Maybe these readings, together with your own intuition about the relationship, have answered this. If not, you could do another reading that specifically asks "why," like "Why were we unable to solve our problems?" or "Why were we unable to accomplish anything together professionally?" or "What hindered our efforts?"...something like that.

OK. Why unable to solve our problems? 46.1.6 > 26

Oh good heavens, sounds like the struggle might continue. OR, it sounds like we're going onward and upward to better things. He has a new job he just loves, which started about six weeks ago. He told me he's really good at this particular work. Implying that he did not feel really good at the speaking/writing business of doing a book.

I have another book in work that I put aside when this project came along. I want to get back to it when my mind empties out. I need to think more about these hexagrams. If you care to comment, I'd really appreciate your thoughts.
:bows:
:bows:
:bows:

 

[poised]

parsely sage rosemary and thyme

He was a bottle
when you were a herb
can you see how difficult this was?


that's what sprung up in me - maybe a little crude a way to read all the wealth of Yi's symbols, but I thought it might stir a ripple or two

You are so inspired, rodaki, you bring me to tears. I did put in love and caring and hope, essential things and true. And planted basil and thyme in our garden, right outside his door.

"Lady Northcote (in The Herb Garden) says that among the Greeks, Thyme denoted graceful elegance; 'to smell of Thyme' was an expression of praise, applied to those whose style was admirable."

How 22 of me. He planted tomatoes.

Yes, it was difficult. But not at first. A Spanish friend of mine says that we women "decorate" men like Christmas trees when we meet them. It takes awhile for the lights to dim and the ornaments to fall to the floor.

. . in a way, I find herbs to be a 'purer' ingredient than what comes out of a pot, or maybe, one closer to its original state, closer to the functions of its essence and going through the cauldron does not always promise a higher end result for what went in it in the first place - all a matter of contexts

Even with excellent ingredients you can make a bad dish. So many other things to consider, the recipe, the temperature, cooking time, the shape of the pot, the palate of the guests....and personal/business/creative relationships are especially prone to Murphy's law "Anything that can possibly go wrong, does."

 

[anemos]

I asked those questions because the ways I read your posts sometimes I see that "its not about the book" and others "its all about the book". Maybe they are not mutual exclusive.

from my standpoint,that allows limited view of the matter, I get the impression ( and maybe I'm way off) , that the subject matter of the book has a personal interest in you-more than a professional one.

he said : "The book doesn't matter" and you said "He just wanted me to be healthy". maybe for him, the book is not important but you are important to him. Maybe he is already done with his cooking but the serving time is not urgent. And maybe he doesn't understand that for you is important- personally not professionally - and by refusing to cooperate its like he is refusing to put the raw material in the Ting (50) , which maybe its your ting and not his.

I try to understand what is this book for You and what hex 50 and 22 tell about that

 

[sooo]

Murphy's law "Anything that can possibly go wrong, does."

Or, "That which I have feared most has come upon me!" Job - ?

 

[poised]

I get the impression ( and maybe I'm way off) , that the subject matter of the book has a personal interest in you-more than a professional one.


Good observation, anemos. Yes, of course, I was interested in doing the work because it had both personal and professional interest for me. He is a mighty warrior/counselor who has worked with more than 7,000 alcoholics, has a very good track record. Years ago, I was editorial director of a company that published books for people and counselors in recovery. Some members of my family were/are alcoholics. So his interests and mine are closely aligned. I thought we'd do well with the book and make some money because his approach to the problem is unique and powerful.

In an even deeper sense, my personal life has always been more difficult than my professional life. I never knew how to make a relationship work, but I do know how to make a book work and feel happier doing that. It's a more reliable path to being what I consider my best self. Perhaps I felt that it was a more reliable path to having a good relationship with him.

In a million years, I could not do his job, could not work with people one-by-one. He has such heart for his patients; I have such a good instinct for the business of publishing. How could anything go wrong? Hah!

Maybe he is already done with his cooking but the serving time is not urgent. And maybe he doesn't understand that for you is important- personally not professionally - and by refusing to cooperate its like he is refusing to put the raw material in the Ting (50) , which maybe its your ting and not his.

I don't know why I had to read that a dozen times to understand that the Ting may be mine. WEll, I do know why: If the Ting is mine, then it's likely that I was totally wrong (or unrealistic) about him and about the project and about myself.

Very painful, and very liberating.
:bows:
:bows:
:bows:

 

[anemos]

seems to me that you too act from a healer's position. Just your tools/expertise is different. For counselors the one -to -one relationships its what heals. my teacher says its not the orange juice and the vitamins that it heals but that someone makes an orange juice for you"

I needed to find an old thread sometime ago and hex 22 was there and i was talking about the healing aspect of 22 - it resonated a lot Lise's 22 commentaries. That thread was about 6 years ago and 22 as healing has played a lot in my readings.

I don't know if you were totally wrong. Maybe your instinct was right. He has something good and you want to spread that good to reach those need it.

sometimes when I pray I say to god " no matter what i wish consciously or unconsciously just do what is best for both parties" . The same I'ld wish for you.

be well, poised and thanks for the interesting exchange.