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Hexagram 58, lines 2, 5, 6 to hexagram 21

etiram

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Hi :

I still have some unfinished work from by former job. In that job I had many conflicts with my supervisor, because of personality differences. In many ocassions he made my life really difficult. In any case, I still have some unfinished work, and I still have to deal with him for this last time. I asked IC if I can trust him in regards to this last work I still have to do with him. I received hexagram 58, changing lines 2, 5, 6. Line 2 is favorable. However, lines 5 and 6 are not. Can you help me interpret this?

Thanks,

ET
 

jerryd

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ET.! The confusion lies in the statement "can I trust in my supervisor"? If you do not trust him already, then why should you trust him later? How does trusting a supervisor effect what you do in your work? All this is very vague. As to the reading if you can answer the above positively the reading is a very good one. If not re ask the question to clarify what it may mean. If you are about to leave then it may make no difference to anyone if you trust him or not.
 
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alan

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Hi Etiram,

In line 5 there seems to be an indication that trust is falling away or diminishing, and that there is some difficulty. The resulting hexagram 21 is often interpreted as biting through an obstruction of some kind. Although line 2 does have an encouraging aspect, line 5 probably has more of a connection to your situation. Overall, this response appears to reflect your circumstances accurately.
 

etiram

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Hi Jerryd:

I do not want to give many details because is sort of confidential. But I do have to finish a manuscript with this person from part of the research work I did while working with him. Believe me that the question is legitimate and I have precedent to be worried about the outcome of this.
Maybe I should ask if there is any reason I should at all be worried about the outcome of this.
Thanks for your interest.
ET
 

pagan

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Karcher is so much sweeter about 58 lines 5,6 than any other translation/commentary I know of. Most other versions are very negative about those two lines. It sounds to me like you failed to draw your boundaries when you had the chance and now you are 'seduced' into a very compromising position.

As for 21, I like the image of 'an obstacle to truth needs to be penetrated and corrected in this situation without leniency. Or it can be saying that all your 'little sins' now add up and you have to pay the piper now.
 

etiram

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Dear Alan:

Thanks for your response. What you are saying makes some sense. I will look at line 5 in the context you suggest.
ET
 

etiram

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Dear Pagan:

I appreciate you took the time to interpret my hexagrams. Nevertheless, some of your comments do not make sense. This work is not a compromising position, it is a job that needs to be completed. I do not understand what you mean my little sins, I do not see that this has anything to do with the question. But in any case, thanks.

ET
 
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waveringdragon

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to me 58 is very often about people working together/learning together, hex 21 is very often about karma,

line 2, stay focused on the work, dont let anything interfere with this and don't be distracted from this, you may feel humiliated, hex 21.2, by some of your supervisor's behaviour but if you stay focused on the work he can only deal with you on a work level, i imagine he likes to get a reaction from you to his bad behaviour, if you don't react, he will feel punished

line 5, again stay focused on the work, do not show sincerity towards disintegrating influences, do not discuss in any way the personality problems, you will only be drawn into them if you discuss them, be true as gold, hex 21.5

line 6, a warning, do not let your ego/vanity allow you to feel superior in any way, do not under any circumstances allow your self to indulge the sort of behaviour that you are trying to avoid, if you are deaf to this warning, hex 21.6, you will be the one receiving the punishment,
little sins? in the past you may have behaved badly in relation to this person, responded in kind, this you must avoid,

hope this helps,

paul
 

lightofdarkness

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From a universal perspective:

line positions 2,5 & 6 in any hexagram are controlled by hex 59 (reflecting the yang element of the 2,5,6 line positions). In this situation the 59-ness of 58 is 21 - IOW 58 dispels illusions through chewing over problems and so solving them.

Does this apply to your question? depends on the method used to ask it.

Try the alternative:

http://www.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/proact.html

let us know what you get.

Chris.
 
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waveringdragon

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that is a very interesting interelationship between hexagrams that you are positing there chris, one that i personally have never considered before,
to me the essential element of 59 is the dissolution of the ego, that inner hardness that seperates us from others and may i humbly suggest that this would be especially relevant in the context of a personality conflict,

just some thoughts,

paul
 

etiram

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Hi Paul:

Thanks for your help. I think your interpretation is quite close to the situation, I am impressed. I have never responded to that person in kind, quite the opposite. However, I told this person about his unkind behavior. Maybe, this is what he does not like. This person has a large ego, as you mentioned in your last message, but I think deep in his heart he is a very unhappy insecure person.
Thanks again,
ET
 

etiram

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Hi Chris:

Thanks for your help. And you also have a very good point about the situation, actually in a very practical way, and very close to what is happening. I will look at your website and let you know.
Thanks again,
ET
 

etiram

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Hi Chris:

I went to your website. I am not so sure of what I was supposed to do. However, I entered the following in the Context, as value oriented, in the future, and proactive, and got hexagram 57. Got the same hexagram for Text, entering the same parameters. When changed in Text, to fact oriented, and the rest the same, I got hexagram 1. I do not think I understand all these. Can you please explain what is the difference between context and text. Thanks,
ET
 

lightofdarkness

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Hi Paul,

Thats a possible interpretation for 59 - consider:

Lets look at it from the UNIVERSAL perspective, reduced to fundamentals it is of a contractive binding element operating in a context of contractive bounding. ANYTHING that fits those really generic qualities will 'fit' 59.

To add some meat, consider it as a focus on cultivating and becoming influencial (mountain - http://www.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/t5.html) operating in a context of containment/control (water - http://www.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/t6.html)

Note that when we map in emotions so we are dealing with anticipation (mountain) operating in a context of rejection (water). The anticipation is (a) of wrongdoing (and so such hexagrams as 18 with its wind base) (b) of rightdoing (and so a focus on cultivation and becoming influencial, the foundation setting of 48, the persuasiveness, seduction, of 44).

The rejection element covers (a) being rejected and (b) rejecting another/others. This focus on rejection reflects the overall focus on containment/control (the contractive BOUNDARY element - and so such water-based examples as being 'fenced' in (47), socialisation (04), uniformity (07) etc etc)

if we read 59 bottom to top we have "with containment comes becoming influencial". From your perspective the ego is not 'dissolved' but more so contained(rejected) and with that containment one can become 'influencial' in that the ego wont get in the way! ;-) - we become influencial not by ego use, but by ego containment.

The structural opposite of 59 is 55 - an excess of diversity, overflowing, - and so in need of 'clarity' to some, the fun of opportunities for others (honest or crooked ;-))

for 59 see:

http://www.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/x110010.html


Chris.
 

lightofdarkness

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Hi ET,

oops - that can be a bit confusing, I will need to fix it. You need to fill in BOTH text and context and then submit. If you just fill in one then you will get the default settings for the other!

I have done it for you based on what you did:

Context (bottom trigram) : values, future, proactive - 001
Text (top trigram) : facts, future, proactive - 101

fire over mountain = 56

Given these associations, no changing lines, the situation is about issues with loyalty.

The 'genetic code' of 56 is:

00 :: (02) : What is this hexagrams's potential form? :: 56
01 :: (24) : How does this hexagram 'start', express 'beginning'? :: 30
02 :: (07) : How does this hexagram express uniformity, establishment of? :: 50
03 :: (19) : How does this hexagram express approaching the 'high'; defer to the 'low'? :: 14
04 :: (15) : How does this hexagram level things out, keep words close to facts? :: 35
05 :: (36) : How does this hexagram protect its 'light' when not its time? :: 21
06 :: (46) : How does this hexagram become more entangled with something/someone? :: 64
07 :: (11) : How does this hexagram balance/harmonise, mediate? :: 38
08 :: (16) : How does this hexagram express foresight/planning? :: 52
09 :: (51) : How does this hexagram express surprise, enlightenment, shock? :: 22
10 :: (40) : How does this hexagram express tension release through relaxing structure? :: 18
11 :: (54) : How does this hexagram expend early energy, imaturity? :: 26
12 :: (62) : How does this hexagram express overacting to establish unconditional loyalty? :: 23
13 :: (55) : How does this hexagram deal with abundance/overflowing? :: 27
14 :: (32) : How does this hexagram express commitment? :: 4
15 :: (34) : How does this hexagram actively invigorate others? :: 41
16 :: (08) : How does this hexagram passively attract? :: 33
17 :: (03) : How does this hexagram 'sprout'? :: 13
18 :: (29) : How does this hexagram assert containment/control? :: 44
19 :: (60) : How does this hexagram standardise? :: 1
20 :: (39) : How does this hexagram obstruct, go against, stand up to, the flow? :: 12
21 :: (63) : How does this hexagram complete, 'get it right'? :: 25
22 :: (48) : Where does this hexagram get its nutrition, what sustains it, keeps it going? :: 6
23 :: (05) : How does this hexagram wait for opportunity to come? :: 10
24 :: (45) : How does this hexagram celebrate its 'faith'? :: 53
25 :: (17) : How does this hexagram find a faith? What is its faith? :: 37
26 :: (47) : How does this hexagram integrate with the context, be it by choice or otherwise? :: 57
27 :: (58) : How does this hexagram express itself intensely, self-reflect? :: 9
28 :: (31) : How does this hexagram 'woo', express restrained enticement? :: 20
29 :: (49) : How does this hexagram reveal, unmask? :: 42
30 :: (28) : How does this hexagram express excess, go beyond what is required? :: 59
31 :: (43) : How does this hexagram 'seed', spread the word? :: 61
32 :: (23) : How does this hexagram 'housekeep', clear chaff to bring out the wheat? :: 62
33 :: (27) : What is the basic, skelatal form of this hexagram, The mud from which it has emerged? :: 55
34 :: (04) : How does this hexagram learn social skills? :: 32
35 :: (41) : How does this hexagram achieve clarity, concentration, distillation? :: 34
36 :: (52) : How does this hexagram express blocking, discernment? :: 16
37 :: (22) : What does this hexagram look like, how does it present itself to the outside? :: 51
38 :: (18) : How does this hexagram correct corruption, express that correction? :: 40
39 :: (26) : How does this hexagram express 'holding firm' to traditions? :: 54
40 :: (35) : How does this hexagram bring something into the 'light'? :: 15
41 :: (21) : How does this hexagram resolve problems? :: 36
42 :: (64) : How does this hexagram remain 'open', mis-sequence? :: 46
43 :: (38) : How does this hexagram 'mirror', deal with opposition? :: 11
44 :: (56) : How does this hexagram demonstrate conditional loyalty; loyalty at a distance? :: 2
45 :: (30) : How does this hexagram express guidance/direction setting? :: 24
46 :: (50) : How does this hexagram express conversion of the raw to the cooked, transformation? :: 7
47 :: (14) : How does this hexagram manage from the centre? Direct operations? Push ideology? :: 19
48 :: (20) : How does this hexagram elicit admiration and so invigorate others passively? :: 31
49 :: (42) : How does this hexagram reflect augmentation? :: 49
50 :: (59) : How does this hexagram make things clear, dispell illusions? lift the fog? :: 28
51 :: (61) : How does this hexagram express empathy? yielding, soft core, hard exterior? :: 43
52 :: (53) : How does this hexagram express gradual development, maturity? :: 45
53 :: (37) : How does this hexagram reflect rigid structure as a form of tension release? :: 17
54 :: (57) : How does this hexagram cultivate and become influencial? :: 47
55 :: (09) : How does this hexagram express making small gains to be noticed? :: 58
56 :: (12) : How does this hexagram neutralise attacks on its core beliefs? :: 39
57 :: (25) : How does this hexagram stand up to say its piece, ignoring consequences, disentangle? :: 63
58 :: (06) : How does this hexagram compromise, meet half way? :: 48
59 :: (10) : How does this hexagram traverse a path carefully? :: 5
60 :: (33) : How does this hexagram draw-in its enemies, competitively entice? :: 8
61 :: (13) : How does this hexagram express association with the likeminded? :: 3
62 :: (44) : How does this hexagram persuade/seduce? :: 29
63 :: (01) : How does this hexagram express singlemindedness, competitiveness? :: 60

Chris
 

pagan

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Hi ET
I wasn't speaking about your situation because I don't know it. I was only speaking about the general interpretation of hexagram 58 lines 5 and 6 changing to 21. What translation of the IC do you use? How many ways are there to interpret these? Karcher says that there is some very important connection achieved in lines 5 and 6 but most other commentaries say you are being sincere to influences that only serve to dis-integrate you and your life. Am I mistaken there? And line 6 states in most commentaries that you have been seduced by something in the outer world. Am I mistaken there? And hexagram 21 is sometimes interpreted as others being dishonest with you, so that you have to bite through the obstacle to truth, and other commentaries say that 21 is about your own faults that add up to become the obstacle.

Were you looking for some other way to see the meanings of these lines and hexagrams? Sorry if what I said didn't match what you wanted to hear but perhaps you need to take a realistic view of what you are doing from more points of view than just your own. Maybe you should examine yourself in the situation to make sure you aren't overlooking your own remissness or weakness in the big picture.

I have to stand by what I have learned studying the IChing; hexagram 58 lines 5 and 6 are about setting boundaries against inferior forms of self indulgence and pleasure. Hexagram 21 is the consequence from not setting the correct boundaries in the first place. Sorry if that doesn't suit how you want to see your situation.
 

etiram

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Hi Pagan:

I really appreciate your efforts to help. Sorry it took me so long to reply, but I have been extemely busy. I still do not understand the concept of lines 5 and 6 of hex 58 regarding my question: Can I trust X with respect to completing this final report?
ET
 

etiram

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Hi Chris:

Thanks a lot for all your help. Can you help me go through the "genetic code" of 56? The term hexagram in all the questions refer to hexagram 56? I am a bit confused.

ET
 

lightofdarkness

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Hi ET,

yes - the term 'hexagram' does refer to 56.

From the analysis of the METHOD used to derive hexagrams we find that for each ROW of recursion so that row is a 'language' with which to describe reality. Thus row 1 is the dichotomy of yin/yang - very basic, general, EITHER/OR (XOR).

(for a diagram see:
http://www.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/btree.gif)

To get more details we apply that dichotomy to itself (recursion) and each iteration gives us a set of qualities usable to describe reality.

By the time we have done 6 loops so we have 64 qualities, aka hexagrams.

BUT - there is more. The ROW is the WHOLE that we started with, what we 'cut' into yin/yang - the recursion gives us 'finer details'.

BUT each quality in each row is also a WHOLE in its own right and as such has 'parts'.

If a row finite and a language in which we are supposed to describe 'all there is', so any such description will be by analogy/metaphor, using the qualities of the row.

(also see
http://www.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/linemean.html#Details)

Thus the WHOLE language is encoded in EACH quality of that language (note we are using QUALITIES, not letters) in that we describe parts of hexagrams by analogy to the qualities of other hexagrams.

With this 'fact' comes a discovery whereby EVERY hexagram is expressed through any other, and there is a method to map this out, this method is using what in logic is called the XOR operator.

Thus we have, for example, the 27-ness of 56 being described by analogy to the characteristics of 55. IOW the basic architecture of 56 is described by analogy with 55; all of the hexagrams can thus be used to describe aspects any particular hexagram.

Thus, each hexagram comes with a 'genetic code' mapping the expression of all of the others THROUGH that particular. This is like DNA in each of your cells expressing itself.

The codes for RNA/DNA come from the recursion of purines/pyramidines. The SAME method is used in the IC and as such we see similar properties - hexagrams are codes for qualities, a language to communicate 'meaning' through eliciting a feeling.

Applying XOR to a hexagram brings out the PARTICULAR aspects of that hexagram associated with what we are using to XOR - e.g. hex 27.

Chris.
 

etiram

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Hi Chris:

Thanks for your detailed explanation. I will go through the code now. ET
 

etiram

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Hi Pagan:

I use Wilhelm/Baynes and Alfred Huang.

Thanks.
 

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