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Hexagram 60.4

madeleine

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Hi, I'm new at this forum.

I'm in an unusal, long-distance relationship with someone. I love him very much, know he feels the same about me, but there are many external complications/obstacles and sometimes he just doesn't seem strong enough to "fight for me" (internal obstacles?).

I called him today after one week of silence, we had a short conversation about nothing at all, and after the call I asked the I Ching what had been the effect of the conversation on him.
I got 60.4, moving to 58.

My dialogues with the I Ching are usually pretty fluid. But this time, I can't figure out an interpretation.

can anyone help?
 
R

rosada

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Hello Madeleine,

60.4 Contented limitation.

This says to me that he experienced the call as a pleasant effortless interlude.

Welcome to the group. i'm new here too.
 

lightofdarkness

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From an ICPlus perspective, the representation of a long distance relationship, and so maintaing of loyalty regardless of distance, is in the form of hexagram 56.

The 'negative' aspect of hexagram 39 covers the experiencing of obstructions and how to 'flow' around them, bypass them.

The properties of 39 expressed in a context of 56 - IOW the 39-ness of 56 - is described by analogy to hexagram:

001101 (56)
001010 (39)
------
000111 (12)

This validates your statement about "fight for me" in that the overall context of 12 is on issues with battling attacks on one's faith/beliefs etc and in so doing neutralising those attacks and so reinforcing that belief (here in the form of a relationship) (the trigrams, bottom up, read "with/from devotion to another comes singlemindedness")

The traditional IC interprets 12 in a 'negative' fashion since the traditional IC focuses on CHANGE where here the focus is on NOT changing the relationship.

Thus the (a) notion of being obstructing (going against the 'mindless' flow) and (b) of bypassing obstructions - all properties of 39 - are expressed in 56 through analogy to 12.

The full spectrum of 12 is given in:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/IChingPlus/x111000.html

This spectrum shows methods of how 12 'begins', 'completes', as well as the properties of 12 (e.g. the infrastracture is described by hex 17 etc)

For an idea on the 'completion' of 12, the 'correct sequence' of steps in 12 we have:

000111 (12)
101010 (63)
------
101101 (30)

Here the dynamics of 12, the 'battle' of 12 is completed in the form of establishing a sense of direction, and 'ideology' - and so the validation of, and so enduring of, a particular belief/faith (and that includes 'love')

As long as there is no completion (64) there is more of a focus on properties of 29

000111 (12)
010101 (64)
------
010010 (29)

here the issues are of containment/control, of 'us' vs 'them' in a context of protection and so not going anywhere - which leads to that focus on 12 of standstill/stagnation.

So - overall the context of 59 sets the ground in which is operating a sense of '39' - of having to deal with obsticles (rather than be an obsticle). This is all expressed in a state described by analogy to hexagram 12. From there you can get an idea of what this state is about, how it can develop etc and so if it is what you want.

Chris.
 

lightofdarkness

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BTW - the above has nothing to so with 60.4 but more so to demonstrate the analysis of your question and how the IC can be used proactively to give an answer rather than the use of the reactive tools of coins etc

For any moment the WHOLE if the IC is applicable but the 64 hexagrams sort into an order of 'best fit'/'worst fit'. Reactive tools cannot guarantee the consistant deriving of the 'best fit', but proactive tolls based on analysis of how our brains deal with novelty etc (and how the metaphor that is the IC is 'hard coded' into us neurologically) CAN aid in ensuring a consistant deriving of that 'best fit' ;-)

What I have given above is not necessarly 'the answer', the 'best fit', but I think it does better than 60.4 in covering the situation (even if 60.4 is PART of the answer ;-))

Chris.
 

void

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If you begin to rely on the Yi to tell you how he feels you are travelling a dangerous path - ask him - he knows how he feels - we don't and would only be guessing.

Guessing I would say he likes the way it is, the limited nature of the relationship suits him.

FWIW my experience is when people have a prolonged long distance relationship and one of them says there is this obstacle and that obstacle means it really suits that party quite well. Because of this long distance relationships are common because in some ways they are easy - profess undying love occassionally and thats enough.

However he could be absolutely desperate to spend every waking moment with you for all I know, so don't ask the Yi ask him.
 

learner

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Dear Madeleine,

The way I see it, he seems to feel quite comfortable with the limitations of the relationship - no profound commitment, no huge expectations. I hope that you both share the same view on that.
Let me give you some piece of advice, if I may. I have recently ended a long-distance relationship and there was quite a lot of pain. So please do not deceive yourself by pretending that the distance is not an issue. I think that you both should come clean about that.

I wish you the best.

Mirian
 

luz

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Well, since your question was how he felt about the conversation, I would think that maybe he just felt happy that you two can still carry on, in spite of the limitations.

You do mention, though, that he might not be strong enought to 'fight for you'.. I wonder what that entails, fighting for you. Relationships are, after all, a two way street and it seems to me that you have both accepted things as they are for the time being. It's up to the two of you to decide what to do next and that is something that you definitely need to discuss with him, make sure the two are in agreement and that you both lay down your plan to fight for each other, if that is what you decide to do.

wishing you the best,
 

madeleine

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Dear All,

Thanks so much for your insights, each of you has "illuminated" a different part of the question (and the person in question!) and it was very helpful.

As to the character of long-distance relationships, I know it well, since I've been in it before. It's not easy, but true love always wins!

I keep getting hexagrams 53, 11 and 32 when I ask about the future of this relationship, and sometimes it's "scary" but it's beautiful too...

Finally, dear Void, don't worry, I've asked him, will ask him when I see him in X-mas!!! The Yi, to me, is just a way of finding answers that are in yourself (or in another person) but you don't assume on a conscious level or express clearly...

thanks again!

best wishes
 

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