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hexagram 63 offerings

jilt

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There is a vision going around since Auguste Comte, that religion and religious behaviour does not exist for people that have a scientific , positivistic worldview. Offering is one of those religion and magic related behaviours that cannot occur in “modern scientific” defined and behaving humans. People in ancient, primitive, religious or sub- cultures though, do offer in that vision. Not we, scientifically positivisticaly trained it seems. But appearances can be deceptive.


Some time ago a very learned scholar lectured about offerings in the ancient yi. Interesting, only, in the introduction he declared that offering wasn't done so much in our society no more.
Perhaps he meant to say that offerings aren't acknowledged as offerings no more, or that everyone with a scientific training doesn't acknowledge offering as an important part of behaviour and that scientific ideolized people have no need for religion, or that offerings for people still behaving with old fashioned calvinistic patterning only feel offering is done as in putting some money for the church on sunday in a very special sock. But, from an anthropological perspective offerings are an integral part of modern western society.
A whole load of highly trained professionals prepare us for doing our offerings in the shopping malls and on the web. This process is called marketing, it makes us buy things we don't need at all.
In advertisements on screens, in papers, magazines, on the radio and on billboards, with smells and music, with sex and suggestions for enlightenment, we are seduced to identify with a brand, convinced that offering to that brand, eat it, wear it, drive it etc. will bring status, sex, power and a connection with the groups uphill.
Driving merc, walking nike, drinking coke, wearing prada, scenting chanel, flying klm, sleeping swedish and reading elegance is nothing more then old fashoined totemism, and it needs a lot of offering in the malls. That offering is called consuming (think about this term, the opposite of offering?).
This totemisn even works so well, that we, the participants forget about the massive character of this consuming and therefore the massive impact it has on the ecology. We prefer to hide in totem.
And this part of modern offerings is only about money. I haven't been talking about the massive offerings of pigs, cows and chicks on our dishes. Eating lots of meat gives an impression of wealth, status and power. Raising and butchering animals is called food production, not industrial production of sacrificial animals that enhance status and power. I can imagine that most people think of this as food. They learned to think like this. The moment we realize it is an offering, we might ask what we are offering for.

In western use of language the word victim is used e.g. in the case of traffic-accidents. At first glance you might think that the word victim is just a relic from the religious past: not so.
We gladly accept some victims for the sake of our traffic-system (changing it would be much to complicated and expensive). On of our ministers propagated faster driving on highways. Statistics showed that it only would take a few more victims per year. She accepted gladly a bit more sacrifices offered to keep up with the system and thanks to statistics the victims are randomly chosen.
Victims go with systems that must be maintained, there is no difference in secular of religious systems, they all need sacrificing and totem.
Cattle disease evoke a lot of un-ease. When some accounting shows that killing the animals is cheaper then curing them, then for the sake of the broader economy those animals are richly butchered; a collective offer to keep the economy going.
A lot of offering has to be made to keep the modern society going, even so much that it has become extremely destructive to it's source, the eco-system. Offerings are not called offerings nomore, but it has become consuming. We have to consume to keep the offerings going. In terms of the yi modern society does a lot of 63-5, massive offering without the heart involved.
 
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Sacrifice is like composting

I watched the movie Avatar when it first came out on DVD. It's such a long movie and when it gets into all of the action packed vehicle war stuff, I sort of lost interest. It took me 4 sittings to watch it all the way through, but the one part where the main blue guy (forget his name? 'Avatar' perhaps?) was being shown how to hunt for food, it really stuck out in my mind. I was a vegetarian at the time and it actually shed some light into the reality of things when I saw the guy take the knife and stab the dinosaur-looking thing. When he stabbed it he directly thanked it. I almost cried but not because the animal had died, more out of the correctness of it all. Life feeding on life, the food chain etc. And how at that moment he chose to honor that. Doesn't hunting seem like one of the most sacred things? Grocery shopping just isn't the same.

When folks pray at dinner, I find it sort of warm and loving. And I find the word pray to be very interesting. Usually the prayer would go something like - "We thank YOU for this food" - and I think they are talking about 'YOU' as a god most of the time. This to me has a separation, or is flip flopped from reality, because I would like to pray directly to the prey itself.

I have also seen where people meditate with food on the floor in front of them. I do not know exactly what they do with it afterwards, but it seems sacrificial. In general it would seem, a sacrifice is giving part, or all, of something, to nourish something other than yourself - like a compost. If I scraped off all of the honey in the hive before winter time, the bees would starve and I would have no bees in spring. And the bees do all of this wonderful work to make the honey, so it would be a shame to not give them the very food that they have created. Like mother earth, from her we have fruit. If we didn't reduce what we ate and give some back, the soil would not be nourished (like compost!). Putting somethng into something, to have it grow into soemthing bigger than yourself.

Thanks for the thread Bert. I am just thinking outloud - Do you see money as sacrifice? I do sometimes for sure, if it is given right (with the right intent), but for the most part it is given in a consumption-like manner and is devoid of any gratitude. Never have I once, even in my mind, even thanked the person/people who put togetther this keyboard I am typing on.. Instead I just wanted it to be on sale. And the folks that made it, I do not know what they think about the product they have made. Did they make it to benefit others? Did they make it to get their paycheck? (both?) Do they sense that I did not care where it came from and thus they create not out of love? Maybe it all has to start with being grateful, then from out that good is born.


Another thing that popped in my head when reading the first part of the thread was quantum mechanics (physics). The scientists go deeper and deeper into matter to see where everything comes from and they find nothing.... literly... they find gaps in between. Religious institutions do not like this probing, but it seems to me to point to helping out the ways of 'the spirit'. Instead of it taking matter and crystalizing things, making them mechanical and sterile seeming, quantum physics actually does the opposite and puts the mystery back into it all, pointing out that we are springing from a much more spiritual place. Quantum physics is so exciting :rolleyes: and I might be getting off topic.
 
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! Oh one more thing... why not?! What do you think zhi gua 36 means with 63.5? Is it that the gratitude is hidden, under the surface, and is in need of coming out, being brought up? Or the opposite, that in 36.5, the acknowlegement does not need to be there for it to exist?
 

jilt

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oh my god, so many answers and questions.

first, there is made a distinction between sacrifice and offering. In sacrifice there is the word sacred, that means "to be set apart". I think people who know about the bible and latin can shed some more light on this issue. A sacrifice might be something (someone) set apart to be offered, like a goat set apart for some old jewish ritual. Perhaps the goat even got a separate, special treatment.
Contemporary sacrifice is used as a way of expressing that we give a lot and receive little (she sacrificed her youth by living with that alcoholic friend).
The moment you realize that we are part of life, the world, the ecosystem, that you are a soul within a field of souls, that there is no differentiation between mind and matter, then offering and thankfulness is a logical part of existence that doesn't need any thought.

People nowadays come with quantum physics and quantum leaps to transcend contemporary scientific thought. That leap is then used to explain the unexplainable within that system.
Every thought, every concept, every system of concepts every system of thought is tautological (yes, including science and god) and thus has something that must transcend it, a meta-vision. The philosophers stone is the predecessor of the quantum leap.

When you e.g adhere to the system of science and want to maintain that system as valuable, then you have to sacrifice to that system in word and deed. But undoubtedly there will come a moment science is doubted and you ask yourself if sacrificing to this system can be done with heart just because it feels safe and you are used to. That also counts for societies, churches, houses, traffic systems and your own body.
The traffic system in cities is a nice example: in the beginning the plan is simple and easily executed, it helps. Later, when things develop, the plan becomes complex and needs more and more energy for maintenance in stead of development. At a certain moment things become so complex that the system tipples over, more energy is going to maintenance, less to new and development. And then, when you want to go on with the system, you suddenly need to offer a lot, like making tunnels, fly-overs and unders, separate train-systems etc, just to keep on moving in the big city. Just imagine the paperwork and the juridical battles before any change. This is indeed about a careful balance of water cooking on a fire.
 
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I know, I know... and despite my name on here being answeredquestions, I don't expect or want them all answered :) I do like asking tho.

So, i am thinking about what you said... and so maybe sacrfice and offering, one is the verb and one is the noun (?) =didn't want to have it be a question but it turned out that way still!

This is a subject I would like to know more about. And 41 and 42 too.
 

jilt

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I'm an artist, and sometimes I just don't know what i'm doing, just follow what seems the best the do. I confused me, and then my wife said: bert, you mustn't forget that all good art is an offer. And indeed it is, I work for god, the yi, peace, insight, recognition, love and all the things i cannot say for lack of words.

the 42 and 41 -thing comes later, i need some time for composing.
 

bradford

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In the context of 63.5 it's important to remember that we are still within the overall meaning of Gua 63, Already Complete. That is, the timely focus is on what is past. The neighbor who is having the better time here is the one offering thanks for the previous season or year. Gratitude is an important key to happiness. The one who is having the inferior time is too busy telling the spirits and ancestors just how much more he wants in the future.

If you said only one prayer in your life, "Thank you" would suffice.
Meister Eckhart
 

jilt

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I was thinking about offerings and sacrifices all the time, and it is a subject that has connotaions in ethymology, religion, psychology, sociology.
In the first place, you can say that there are thank-offerings and offerings to get something. It appears the offerings from hex 63-5 have more to do with thanks, those from 41 and 42 more with getting something, or, perhaps better said, connecting and communing with the spirits and the gods (the archtypical world if you like). Some people claim that the one from 41 has to to with psychotropic drugs.
In psychology many cases of compulsive behaviuour are known to be connected with ritual and offering.
Wikipedia has a nice entrance to offering: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offering
 
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Nome Gods Bearing Offerings
about 1391-1353 BC
NomeOfferings.jpg
 

jilt

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to whom is nome god offering? to people? then that would be a 42 offering, the gods that bring inspiration to humans?
 
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It's my understanding they are offering to a King (perhaps King Sahure) and that the Nomes themselves are symbolic for what the different areas of land offer.
 

meng

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Driving merc, walking nike, drinking coke, wearing prada, scenting chanel, flying klm, sleeping swedish and reading elegance is nothing more then old fashoined totemism

badass lyrics
 

gene

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There is an "offering" to be made for everything, if we want a car, or chair, or insurance, or a cigar, we offer cash. If we want a significant other, we offer our time to be with them, and offer our undivided attention against all the other potentials out there. The sacrificing of a cow or a lamb in the old days was only an allegory to help us understand the need to offer of our services, our heart, and our labor. Also, to be spiritually inclined we must offer up our ego as a sacrifice, and allow the spirit to rule in its place. There is always an offering. And the scientific community by and large are a bunch of arrogant fools who think they know everything when in fact they know very little. But "wisdom is justified of all its children." The time will come when we will all understand these things. The new age is approaching quickly.

Gene
 

meng

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To me, 63.5 is: being given the vision to see whatever we have and whatever will come, with a trusting spirit, and to know that God(s) look at the heart. Being satisfied is not something we have been conditioned to do.
 

jilt

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There is a kind of offering that is very strange to us. In some cultures animals are sacrificed for a deceased, not for some kind of atonement, but as a vehicle for the persons soul to the "afterlife". So, someone died, the a cow or chicken is sacrificed (depending on status) and the soul of that animal will carry or guide the human soul. This custom is (was?) found in south and south east Asia.

In offering we see many visions. The way the Shang did, and the way the contemporaries of the yellow emperor did it, the way the Romans did it, and the way we do it. In contemporary culture visions on offering can be very ecletistic.
 
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I like the idea of offering time, thoughts and dedication towards something/someone. Just as much as... say... offering a bowl or two of rice.

63's offerings, might they be the way in which completeness is reached? Feeling that you have all that you need is just short of the overall goal, but when you can share it, enjoy it with others, give, then it is understood and utilized more completely. We can 'have' something for a long time too, but to really appreciate something is when it comes around full circle. Then you really can know it.
 
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