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Hexagram 64

Zane02

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Hello, I am completely new to I Ching and recently did an online 'question' to have guidance from the I Ching. (Excuse me if my terminology is incorrect!)
My question; How should I go about my relationship with ##### to enable joy, love and emotional peace for everyone.

My ex girlfriend ##### broke up with me a year ago and I have spent much time since in calm, contemplative, meditative existence since. I behaved ashamedly towards the end of our relationship and have spent time working through issues which has turned my life around in a positive way. However I still have inner suffering from the break up. This evening I will be talking to ##### for the first time in 11 months. My question is less about the conversation tonight but about the long term inner peace for all whatever it may look like. (even if my attachment desires to continue a relationship with #####).

I received a hexagram 64 with no changing lines. I would love some interpretations from the neutral readers on this community. I have read it through thoroughly and made my own interpretations but I am always keen to learn from as many sources as possible.

Kind reagrds,

Zane02
 

breakmov

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Hi Zane02

welcome to the forum. :)

"My question; How should I go about my relationship with ##### to enable joy, love and emotional peace for everyone. "


Hi Zane02

welcome to the forum. :)

64 Un shows the following:
imagine a puzzle game with all those shuffled pieces. 64 shows the same situation/attitude as when building the puzzle.You move forward one piece at a time, carefully, trying to figure out how the pieces fit together. A cautious move, forward and backward, searching and studying the movement of each piece. the objective of the game is always present, so is the probable final picture of the puzzle, but everything is done in a tentative and cautious way, looking for where it makes sense to fit pieces together. You have a probable picture of the constructed puzzle in your mind, but the way to get there is completely uncertain. - The work, care and perseverance will always be present... but no certainties.


Cheers,

breakmov
 

Zane02

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Hi Zane02

welcome to the forum. :)

"My question; How should I go about my relationship with ##### to enable joy, love and emotional peace for everyone. "


Hi Zane02

welcome to the forum. :)

64 Un shows the following:
imagine a puzzle game with all those shuffled pieces. 64 shows the same situation/attitude as when building the puzzle.You move forward one piece at a time, carefully, trying to figure out how the pieces fit together. A cautious move, forward and backward, searching and studying the movement of each piece. the objective of the game is always present, so is the probable final picture of the puzzle, but everything is done in a tentative and cautious way, looking for where it makes sense to fit pieces together. You have a probable picture of the constructed puzzle in your mind, but the way to get there is completely uncertain. - The work, care and perseverance will always be present... but no certainties.


Cheers,

breakmov


Thank you breakmov,

I found your use of imagery very useful and confirming and I truly agree about 'no certainties in most aspect of my life and philosophy.
May I ask about your interpretation of 64.4 (not sure if that is how you label the specific line of a hexagon- 3rd one down 4th one up from the bottom!) 'Deep in the Devil's Domain, there is not room for Despair Persevere fro 3 years and victory will be yours.' The use of 3 years seems so specific and is sending my thoughts in various directions. Does it have a more philosophical representation?
Yes I do have a probable picture of the puzzle in mind and I am aware not to layer it with specific people etc. but rather allow the emotional and spiritual intent and desires of myself to be the 'picture of the puzzle'

Regards,

Zane02
 

my_key

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Hi Zane02

It's great that youhave found some solace and meaning in breakmov's reply that has confirmed your own take on the response of 64 Unchanging. Reading your post I would say it is directed towards your 'long term inner peace' in relation to how you behave as the relationship ended.

With an Unchanging hexagram there is no need to take notice of the individual lines. An unchanging hexagram generally means thaat the guidance you get from the hexagram is going to be sufficient for a while yet.

Its kind af a reading that says - things are not over but if I carry on the way I'm going with my new perspectives I'm going to be able to handle what comes my way and gradually put things in order. They may not necessarily be the way they were or the way I would like them to be but I'll be able to cope with what comes my way.

Good Luck

PS - for future reference 64.4 can be seen as maturing into the new you through concerted effort and healing the things in you that were driving your immature (wounded) behaviours.
 

breakmov

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...let's see :

"May I ask about your interpretation of 64.4 "

64.4 > 4

'Deep in the Devil's Domain, there is not room for Despair Persevere fro 3 years and victory will be yours.'


Continuing with the picture of the puzzle game:

The 4 line talks about the frustration of wanting to move forward to complete the puzzle and not succeeding and also the preseverance of not letting oneself be overcome by the "devil of frustration, impatience, lack of knowledge and lack of experience".
Here( 4 line) the puzzle already goes to more than half, the easiest part is already made and there are left the most difficult pieces. You already have half of the picture of the puzzle, you imagine very well the other part but the fitting of the pieces now becomes something very frustrating, the advance becomes very difficult.You have fewer pieces to fit together, you have a very concrete glimpse of the whole picture of the puzzle, you have all the experience gathered so far, but nothing seems to help. You feel blocked in the advancement / completion of the puzzle - this is a new rhythm in the middle of the game that goes against your will to want to advance faster and so it creates all that frustration, and that "Devil's Domain".

"
...The use of 3 years seems so specific and is sending my thoughts in various directions ...."


for me it means progress, despite the difficulties and frustrations, with the three lines left to conclude the hexagram 64.

Cheers,

breakmov
 
F

Freedda

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My question; How should I go about my relationship with ##### to enable joy, love and emotional peace for everyone.
Zane. Perhaps others might be able to glean more specifics here, but I think this response might be pointing to differences in what you and # are looking for, and how you're going about it.

You are perhaps being more emotional and wanting to get to the bottom of things; perhaps you are looking for something (from her?) that will let you feel less fearful or vulnerable?

I'd say # may be seeking clarity ... perhaps hoping that you both have a clear sense of ... what? Perhaps that you clearly understand where she's at with all this. It's not that she's unemotional, only that her emotions (fear, etc.) are not her prime motivations.

And by extention, I think that if you can accept these differences - and see clearly that she's not responsible for making them or fixing them (and nor are you) - than you might gain some emotional peace with it all.

Best, D
 

Zane02

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Hi Zane02

It's great that youhave found some solace and meaning in breakmov's reply that has confirmed your own take on the response of 64 Unchanging. Reading your post I would say it is directed towards your 'long term inner peace' in relation to how you behave as the relationship ended.

With an Unchanging hexagram there is no need to take notice of the individual lines. An unchanging hexagram generally means thaat the guidance you get from the hexagram is going to be sufficient for a while yet.

Its kind af a reading that says - things are not over but if I carry on the way I'm going with my new perspectives I'm going to be able to handle what comes my way and gradually put things in order. They may not necessarily be the way they were or the way I would like them to be but I'll be able to cope with what comes my way.

Good Luck

PS - for future reference 64.4 can be seen as maturing into the new you through concerted effort and healing the things in you that were driving your immature (wounded) behaviours.


Hello my_key

Thank you for taking the time. You are correct, I gently try to guide my mind back to the essence of my question which is inner peace for all from the way things were handled. I obviously hope it to look a specific way but here is where I must trust in the beautiful mystery of the Universe to lead me to inner peace with the guidance of wisdom that has been expressed in hexagram 64 and not to force a particular outcome.

Thank you again for your input.

Zane02
 

Zane02

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...let's see :

"May I ask about your interpretation of 64.4 "

64.4 > 4

'Deep in the Devil's Domain, there is not room for Despair Persevere fro 3 years and victory will be yours.'


Continuing with the picture of the puzzle game:

The 4 line talks about the frustration of wanting to move forward to complete the puzzle and not succeeding and also the preseverance of not letting oneself be overcome by the "devil of frustration, impatience, lack of knowledge and lack of experience".
Here( 4 line) the puzzle already goes to more than half, the easiest part is already made and there are left the most difficult pieces. You already have half of the picture of the puzzle, you imagine very well the other part but the fitting of the pieces now becomes something very frustrating, the advance becomes very difficult.You have fewer pieces to fit together, you have a very concrete glimpse of the whole picture of the puzzle, you have all the experience gathered so far, but nothing seems to help. You feel blocked in the advancement / completion of the puzzle - this is a new rhythm in the middle of the game that goes against your will to want to advance faster and so it creates all that frustration, and that "Devil's Domain".

"
...The use of 3 years seems so specific and is sending my thoughts in various directions ...."


for me it means progress, despite the difficulties and frustrations, with the three lines left to conclude the hexagram 64.

Cheers,

breakmov


Yes this totally is recognisable to me! This hexagram guided me to a very healthy conversation last night even though I am aware the source of my question was not specific to my conversation with ##### but I believe it was part of the journey.

Personally I feel the hexagram 64 is very apt for my current situation and its overall intention is very clear to me. When I read each individual line I feel as though I would place my journey around line 4. My question is, does one read a hexagram in such fashion? Or do all the 6 lines apply to our present moment. I believe the comment from @my_key above touched upon this and says With an Unchanging hexagram there is no need to take notice of the individual lines. An unchanging hexagram generally means that the guidance you get from the hexagram is going to be sufficient for a while yet.

Tricky to phrase my question, I hope it makes sense.

Thanks

Zane02

p.s. my_life if you are reading this I would also enjoy your thoughts. The question came about as I was responding to @breakmov
 

Zane02

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Zane. Perhaps others might be able to glean more specifics here, but I think this response might be pointing to differences in what you and # are looking for, and how you're going about it.

You are perhaps being more emotional and wanting to get to the bottom of things; perhaps you are looking for something (from her?) that will let you feel less fearful or vulnerable?

I'd say # may be seeking clarity ... perhaps hoping that you both have a clear sense of ... what? Perhaps that you clearly understand where she's at with all this. It's not that she's unemotional, only that her emotions (fear, etc.) are not her prime motivations.

And by extention, I think that if you can accept these differences - and see clearly that she's not responsible for making them or fixing them (and nor are you) - than you might gain some emotional peace with it all.

Best, D


Thank you D,

Some questions that I can feel make me feel vulnerable because I can see that they are very valid and well put :). I have made a note of them and feel they are good questions to contemplate calmly, certainly the questions that relate to my side of things.

Kind regards,

Zane02
 

breakmov

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Hi Zane02,


"....My question is, does one read a hexagram in such fashion? "


when a unchanging Hex comes out is like my_key said, the general knowledge of hex is the answer offered by yijing.
Notice that when you ask a question to yijing, usually there is some kind of doubt / uncertainty that we want to solve / control. We look for something to calm that environment of doubt that we have in our mind and at the same time look for a path to follow with wisdom.
When a Hex un comes out, there is no council to point out something specific, but something general and abstract.- And this message is the council that the yijing offered us so that our mind can be calmer and can follow a better path.
What can we do with an abstract image, hovering without direction?-... But this was the answer given by yijing!

For my part, I look at it! I let curiosity seize that image, using all the ways my imagination can find - I take this action of curiosity as the best approach to the answer given by yijing.


Cheers,

breakmov
 

my_key

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What can we do with an abstract image, hovering without direction?-... But this was the answer given by yijing!

For my part, I look at it! I let curiosity seize that image, using all the ways my imagination can find - I take this action of curiosity as the best approach to the answer given by yijing.
Hi breakmov
There is certainly the imagery to be curious about in what Wilhelm calls the Judgement of the hexagram. However, I do believe there is a sense of direction, too, available in unchanging hexagrams. I always look at the Image, again Wilhelm's term,

Fire over water:
The image of the condition before transition.
Thus the superior man is careful
In the differentiation of things,
So that each finds its place.

Direction comes from the guidance given here. With again a huge sprinkling of curiousity oiling the cogs.
Something like:
If I truely was a man of high moral character (a superior man) and I was really wanting to get through what is happening to me, in me and around me in this situation I would be slowing down and trying to get a good understanding of what it all really means; sorting the wheat from the chaff, if you like. Then, because I recognise things are not yet complete, I'd be taking real notice of what I've discovered and begin putting my affairs in order in accordance with my new realisations. If I did that it might move me closer towards some sort of resolution!
 

rosada

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I'm arriving late so I know you have already had your phone call so I'm just writing this out as a study of 64.
I think it was advising you that your attitude looking forward to the talk should have been to be open and not to expect things to go in any specific direction. Anyway, it sounds like from your feedback that it went well - I hope so!

64. Not yet Across

The Oracle gives this advice for when you're not yet across but you're already thinking about how you'll create success in the new place once you get there. I think of it as being the space between having completed one project and starting the next one. In your case, reconnecting after completing the former relationship with your friend and not yet having created or worked out the details of how the new one might be. So an opportunity not to go back to the old relationship but a chance to create more consciously a new one.

It offers you the parable of the young fox:
The young fox takes a giant leap! He's almost across the great river but then at the last moment, as his paws land on solid ground his rear end dips down back into the water and he soaks he's tail so now no direction bears fruit.

What does this mean in your case? Like the young fox, you were heading towards leaping into a conversation/situation you knew almost nothing about but you had an idea of how you wanted things to go and the I Ching was warning you that even as you may have thought you had arrived on solid ground you had really barely gotten you're toe in the door so you were advised you had to act smart or you could easily slip up.

The Image illustrates what you should do:
Fire over water - everything is out of place at 64.
A noble one sorts through all the different elements and differentiates between things - what's important, what's not, what to remember what to forget - so each finds it's place.

So that seems to give advice for how to handle the conversation. Perhaps to let it be a wide ranging chat, get everything up and out in the open so then people could more easily see what if anything they would want to create next.

As to reading the individual lines for guidance even though your cast was unchanging, I think it's always worthwhile to study the whole hexagram as understanding the lines can help you understand the Oracle and Image but just know that the situations described by the lines may not be specific to your question or situation.

I read the lines as if they are describing moving into a new town where no one knows my history and I now have a chance to create a whole new identity.

64.1 You're heading out into a new situation and you have no idea what you're going to do when you get there..
64.2 So slow down. Pace yourself.
64.3 Everything is in a state of flux. Don't try to direct things. Just hang in there.
64.4 As things become more familiar the chaos calms down you can start to act with intention. You have an opportunity to declare whatever happened in the past is over and start fresh.
64.5 You can now emerge as the new you with no baggage. Be the person you were always meant to be!
64.6 Just be careful not to get careless and blow it!
 
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breakmov

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Hi my_key,

Yes, of course. When I say "look at it!" or "this action of curiosity" it's in the broad/universal sense of the term. It's a want to investigate and study what that means, and what it's not either. All this without one wanting to find a specific answer to the question posed. But something more like "this whole "thing", that I'm curious about, has a connection to the question asked and this "curiosity" will help in some way to have a broad reference where to "connect" the question asked.- I should do / know this!"

Cheers, :)

breakmov
 

Zane02

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Hi Zane02,


"....My question is, does one read a hexagram in such fashion? "


when a unchanging Hex comes out is like my_key said, the general knowledge of hex is the answer offered by yijing.
Notice that when you ask a question to yijing, usually there is some kind of doubt / uncertainty that we want to solve / control. We look for something to calm that environment of doubt that we have in our mind and at the same time look for a path to follow with wisdom.
When a Hex un comes out, there is no council to point out something specific, but something general and abstract.- And this message is the council that the yijing offered us so that our mind can be calmer and can follow a better path.
What can we do with an abstract image, hovering without direction?-... But this was the answer given by yijing!

For my part, I look at it! I let curiosity seize that image, using all the ways my imagination can find - I take this action of curiosity as the best approach to the answer given by yijing.


Cheers,

breakmov


Big fan of the word curiosity, it is the driving force behind my moments of contemplation and meditation when I have a particularly busy mind.

Thank you again for all your help and clarifications.

Zane02
 

Zane02

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Hi breakmov
There is certainly the imagery to be curious about in what Wilhelm calls the Judgement of the hexagram. However, I do believe there is a sense of direction, too, available in unchanging hexagrams. I always look at the Image, again Wilhelm's term,

Fire over water:
The image of the condition before transition.
Thus the superior man is careful
In the differentiation of things,
So that each finds its place.

Direction comes from the guidance given here. With again a huge sprinkling of curiousity oiling the cogs.
Something like:

I find the final quote very useful and have made a note of it thanks!

Zane02
 

Zane02

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I'm arriving late so I know you have already had your phone call so I'm just writing this out as a study of 64.
I think it was advising you that your attitude looking forward to the talk should have been to be open and not to expect things to go in any specific direction. Anyway, it sounds like from your feedback that it went well - I hope so!

64. Not yet Across

The Oracle give advice for when you're not yet across but you're wanting to create success in the new place once you get there. I think of it as being the space between having completed one project and starting the next one. In your case, reconnecting after completing the former relationship with your friend and not yet having created or worked out the details of a new one. So an opportunity not to go back to the old relationship but a chance to create more consciously a new one.

It offers you the parable of the young fox:
The young fox takes a giant leap! He's almost across the great river but then at the last moment, as his paws land on solid ground his rear end dips down back into the water and he soaks he's tail so now no direction bears fruit.

What does this mean in your case? Like the young fox, you were heading towards leaping into a conversation/situation you knew almost nothing about but you had an idea of how you wanted things to go and the I Ching was warning you that even as you may have thought you had arrived on solid ground you had really barely gotten you're toe in the door so you were advised you had to act smart or you could easily slip up.

The Image illustrates what you should do:
Fire over water - everything is out of place at 64.
A noble one sorts through all the different elements and differentiates between things - what's important, what's not, what to remember what to forget - so each finds it's place.

So that seems to give advice for how to handle the conversation. Perhaps to let it be a wide ranging chat, get everything up and out in the open so then people could more easily see what if anything they would want to create next.

As to reading the individual lines for guidance even though your cast was unchanging, I think it's always worthwhile to study the whole hexagram as understanding the lines can help you understand the Oracle and Image but just know that the situations described by the lines may not be specific to your question or situation. Read the lines as if they are describing you moving into a new town where no one knows your history and you now have a chance to recreate yourself.

64.1 You're heading out into a new situation and you have no idea how you're going to get where you want to be.
64.2 So slow down. Pace yourself.
64.3 Everything is in a state of flux. Don't try to direct things. Just hang in there.
64.4 As things become more familiar the chaos calms down you can start to act with intention. You have an opportunity to declare whatever happened in the past is over and start fresh.
64.5 You can now emerge as the new you with no baggage. Be the person you were always meant to be!
64.6 Just be careful not to get careless and blow it!


Hi Rosada,

Thanks for all the great words.

I was very careful about the question I chose. I have a desire to get back with my ex girlfriend but I was mindful not to ask about that. I believe our 'ego' wants specific things to resolve whatever internally does feel right, pleasant, good etc. For example in my case I have 'hang ups' (won't get all mushy) over my ex. My 'ego' associates inner peace with my ex and my thoughts rotate purely around only her being able to satisfy the ill feelings I have. However a deeper wiser part of me knows that there are many routes to finding inner peace in regards to my ex and its not just the one option of getting back together that can lead me (and perhaps her) there.

Listening to this part of me I chose the question with a long term vision and not just about the singular event of our conversation. The conversation was very pleasant and we took it to simply be in the present moment. I managed to go into it without ulterior motives other than being present. I definitely agree with the guidance of the I Ching. Inner peace has not yet arrived and I am taking the guidance of hex 64 for an overall longer journey. But damn this is what they mean with patience is a virtue!!!! haha

Therefore your post is still very relevant to my current journey and thank you.

So an opportunity not to go back to the old relationship but a chance to create more consciously a new one.
I totally agree with this and it certainly has been a calming focus of my mind as I find my way to the end of this journey however long it may take!


Zanoe02
 

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