Hexagram for Love at first sight

[stark tree]

I've had my share of incredibly accurate relationship readings - even the ones which were befuddling at the time later turned out to be 101% spot on - and reflecting on these past interpretations has helped me out of many a crisis..

So I've been thinking about love and how complex it is and how perfectly apt the iching is for looking at it from all the many perspectives it offers .
Mainly what's been bugging me lately is the possibility of love at first sight, whether it exists and what would the hexagram that best describes it..and I asked the oracle just that 'What hexagram would best describe love at first sight in a reading?'

And this is the answer: '49.2.3.5>54'

Revolution and marrying the maiden.. I think the lines are very significant, from the initial impulse of line 2, to the conflict of line 3 and the final 'molting' of the luminous 5..beautiful. As for hex 54..well I guess 'love at first sight' is more often than not related to the kind of socially conflicted 'romeo and juliet' scenarios..A curious insight that i wanted to share, if anyone else is interested in exploring the theme.

 

[cris]

59? 51? Just a couple potential options...

 

[ginnie]

49 > 54

I like to think of 54 as "You are not the one who has chosen."

Love at first sight is said, therefore, to be a something coming over us that radically changes the way see our lives. That is just so apt!

 

[stark tree]

that's so brilliant ginnie, I relate! thanks for posting x

 

[dancing white ferret]

My immediate take on this was dramatic change leading to a marriage of convenience. Sorry to be Debbie Downer here, I haven't looked at the lines though e, but that's what I'm getting here. Perhaps the Yi is suggesting that what you think of as love at first sight is not a good foundation for a life partnership, or long term relationship. Maybe I'm being biased since thas been my experience with it... Anyone else get that feeling at all?

 

[Lavalamp]

I only see Marrying Maiden as a marriage of convenience or loveless marriage if you read individual lines. It is one of the 4 hexagrams abut marriage, it says "the man leads" and the woman "joyously follows." This sounds like love to me, not it's absence. It also I think refers to harmonizing many loves, some of which preceded you, the Judgement "Undertakings bring misfortune" is a caution meaning if you try to bury/take under/upstage/ the other "wives" - mostly for us symbolic, like music being a composer's mistress - and compete for attention in such a situation, you will kill affection and kindness in the household.

I might add there is the flavor of the old rich guy and the young thing in this hex, the Yi does not think in entirely appropriate due to age difference and the girl initiating - but it doesn't exactly say it's wrong either. Sort of accepts it as being something that happens due to human nature.

 

[Lavalamp]

49.2.3.5
He has come into his own, and she turns his world upside down. At first she doesn't believe his profession of love, but he has no other choice in his heart and convinces her eventually.

>54'
And they lived happily forever after....

 

[ginnie]

>54'
And they lived happily forever after....

Lavalamp, that is the fairy tale Cinderella, not the I Ching, unfortunately.

 

[Lavalamp]

Ginnie, you really can't see where in the Yi where I got any of that?

Generally I use Deoxy.org/iching because I can cross reference Wilhelm, Legge, and Lofting very quickly on that site, and compare the lines and commentaries easily. You can also access the original old Chinese there too.

Ok, "and they were happy in love." How about that?

 

[ginnie]

All I meant to say was that "And they lived happily ever after" is the concluding line of many fairy tales, like Cinderella. As if life stops upon finding one's Prince or one's Princess and there is no further complication in love or in life after the wedding ceremony. We all know from seeing married couples that that is not true.

I think when a person asks "What would be the oracle of such-and-such," then the I Ching is answering what it would be for them personally, not for all people.

In this case, love at first sight would be an experience bringing a necessary and proper revolution, a change bringing sublime success. I hate to say it but there is about hex 49 also the quality of being skinned alive, or like shedding a skin. This is not always 100% pleasant! Also with hex 54, sometimes after succumbing we find that our interests are not considered and we are not being seen as the person we really are! And with hex 54 often (not always!) there are one or more older or more powerful women hovering in the background, making all the rules.

Love at first sight, that dancing on air, walking on clouds sort of feeling -- Yi said it would be a wonderful experience for Stark Tree. To change like a tiger is always to a better state of mind and body.

 

[Lavalamp]

So Ginnie, you see the Yi as saying "love at first sight is like being skinned alive?" And in real life there is no such thing as a "happy ever after?" There is no such archetype in the collective unconscious man has named the Yi?

Ok.

 

[gato]

And this is the answer: '49.2.3.5>54'

sometimes when asking about numbers the answer is not in the lines but in the "resultant" of the two hexes. in this case, for example, the "resultant" is 44 or 59 ( picture hex numbers in a 10x6 matrix to understand what i mean ) .

 

[ginnie]

So Ginnie, you see the Yi as saying "love at first sight is like being skinned alive?" And in real life there is no such thing as a "happy ever after?" There is no such archetype in the collective unconscious man has named the Yi?

No, love at first sight can be very sweet. Like walking on air ... Hex 49 has to do with the skin and the nervous system was all I was saying.

Many people have noticed that with Yi, there is no perfect state that lasts and lasts without change. Here on Earth everything is subject to change.

Let me quote from Stephen Karcher on hex 49, which he has called Skinning/Revolution: "The time of Skinning is great indeed. It is a time when the basic images of our lives go into flux and renewal through that mysterious quality called Change, a time when the world we experience is renewing itself. ... We skin away what is past and done with, challenge our old ideas and experiences. We go into solution, into the liminal zone. When Change occurs, we accept the transformation and welcome the new time."

It's true that Yi categorizes things a little differently than we are used to. I have spoken with modern Chinese people and they have told me that the way of thought presented in the I Ching is not familiar to them, either. This is something that takes many years to learn.

 

[Lavalamp]

No, love at first sight can be very sweet. Like walking on air ... Hex 49 has to do with the skin and the nervous system was all I was saying.

Many people have noticed that with Yi, there is no perfect state that lasts and lasts without change. Here on Earth everything is subject to change.

Let me quote from Stephen Karcher on hex 49, which he has called Skinning/Revolution: "The time of Skinning is great indeed. It is a time when the basic images of our lives go into flux and renewal through that mysterious quality called Change, a time when the world we experience is renewing itself. We co-operate with this by making the time, going through the imaginative preparations. ... We skin away what is past and done with, challenge our old ideas and experiences. We go into solution, into the liminal zone. When Change occurs, we accept the transformation and welcome the new time."

Why the impulse here to imply tragedy is just around the corner, when the question was a fairy tale question in the first place? Trying to make it more complicated a narrative than it really is doesn't really add insight, one loses perspective. it's just a simple answer to a simple question.

I read "on your own day you are believed" to indicate a man who has come into his own. But despite his success love has insistent demands of it's own. The battle is between his own highly developed self and the force of love, which turns his world upside down, brings about a major change in his life. If anything is "stripped away", it is his life lived as a single man, however hot his car and cool his apartment were, no matter how impressive his social standing or celebrity. The lines say he wins over disbelief, and in the changing hex he marries the girl.

Change does not have to mean unhappiness is just around the corner. Love and Happiness can indeed remain constant though life passess through it's changes, births, your own kids growing up, getting old together, etc...

 

[rodaki]

49/54

a revelation/realization/revolutionary moment that

- has one running after one's feelings
- makes one realize they were leading only a half existence without the other that will complete them (54 as a one-eyed person)
- leaves something to be yearned
- its completion remains to be seen (will it be reciprocated?)
- goes over and above one's will or decision
- creates a rose-glasses view of life
- creates a wholly different perspective on individual or relating value

. . I could go on and on and on - the possibilities are endless with Yi

 

[stark tree]

Wow, this has turned into such a wonderful debate..I'm getting a lot out of this so thank you everybody for joining in.

ginnie gave me some food for thought when she mentioned how the oracle often responds to generalized questions by reflecting one's own personal situation, as the more I read the various interpretations the more i realize it's exactly what's happened (you know when something is right in front of your eyes but you cant see it until someone points it to you??)

I'm with lavalamp when it comes to not jump to negative conclusions because I'm a firm believer that energy has infinite possibilities - some good, some less promising- until we choose to narrow it down to one single negative denominator..in this case 54 could be read as not particularly auspicious hexagram, and people often latch on to that indiscriminately, but in fact I've come to quite love it, as it's one of those very specific hex that has never got it wrong for me.

Whenever i got it there was pretty much always one or all of these elements at play:
A. another woman in the background, usually older, not always a mistress, could be a mother, colleague, etc.
B. some kind of socially inappropriate scenario, something that in one way or the other would create some kind of shock in coming out
C. the possibility of something beautiful and quite poetic if you are willing to take an 'auxiliary position'.

In short, I see the idea of 'sacrifice' somehow intrinsic to 54, and that's not always a bad thing, if it means to be selfless, to renounce our ego for the sake of trusting (there is a lot of power to be relinquished in the idea of 54, especially if we take the male/female roles literally) .
In a way, I see that as intrinsic to the concept of love itself, sacrifice in the sense of 'surrender'. Not in the sense of being a victim or powerless, but in the sense that you can never fully love someone without surrendering to them.
You still with me??
) ST

 

[Lavalamp]

Actually on reflection I realize Ginnie was right in the first place. I should have known better. Love at first sight has all the potential to manifest as being skinned alive, when that love is impossible, star crossed, totally unrequited, where there is mental illness... All the potential is there to be left with bleeding with your guts spilled out on the side of the road to die a miserable death.

But it doesn't always manifest that way, and I don't think the Yi was describing it so either. And I don't see in this reading the Yi wanting to say that's what falling in love is all about. It may not always work out, but that's not because it's essentially a bad, foolish thing about human nature.

 

[ginnie]

in this case 54 could be read as not particularly auspicious hexagram, and people often latch on to that indiscriminately

Still with you. I agree with you. Often an ancillary position is the best one, all things considered.

About love at first sight, I realize these threads cannot contain the subject, as so many movies, novels, poems, musical compositions and great works of art have had this as their subject. A few words cannot in any way do justice to the theme of love at first sight -- so, I think I'll take my own counsel and hop off this thread. That was an interesting question you asked the oracle, Stark Tree !!!

 

[stark tree]

I know, and the answers were even more interesting!

thank you for all your insight, I've really got a lot out of this thread. It was a really good reading for me, and as often happens good readings resonate..

And Lavalamp, just before we finish off the thread altogether, I just wanted to add that I don't really see 49 as a 'miserable death' omen, the 'supreme good fortune' of the oracle is far too positive to allow such speculations. The only connotation I see it having with death is in terms of 'change', and I suppose change is one of those things associated with death and feared just as much. It's a sort of get ready for change (50 is just round the corner..) BIG TIME type hex. In that sense it reminds me of Death in the tarot card, just as 54 reminds me of The Lovers in some deck..but I;m getting carried away again!

good night, and good luck everybody
ST

 

[Lavalamp]

And Lavalamp, just before we finish off the thread altogether, I just wanted to add that I don't really see 49 as a 'miserable death' omen, the 'supreme good fortune' of the oracle is far too positive to allow such speculations. The only connotation I see it having with death is in terms of 'change', and I suppose change is one of those things associated with death and feared just as much. It's a sort of get ready for change (50 is just round the corner..) BIG TIME type hex. In that sense it reminds me of Death in the tarot card, just as 54 reminds me of The Lovers in some deck..but I;m getting carried away again!

good night, and good luck everybody
ST

I didn't read it that way either! I still think the Yi was telling a sweet tale of what is a beautiful, crazy little thing called love. But there is the potential of it going the way of unhappiness inherently there, a shadow side that Ginnie pointed out. Wasn't the _message_ though, as I read it.