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Hexagrams in art: 29

rodaki

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Hello everyone, I haven't been around here for ages, I hope everyone is doing ok!

I came across what, to me at least, looks like a mesmerising depiction of the dynamics in hexagram 29 . .
you can take a look at it in the link below

[video=youtube;3TLBVOVkOxk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TLBVOVkOxk[/video]
 

Freedda

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In a 2015 interview in Forbes the artist Amish Kapoor talks about the sculptures he had installed at Versailles, including Descension. He says, in part:

'That’s what art does, it’s a reference. It doesn’t say this means that (sighs) .... It’s much more interesting when it’s a problematic question of how do you relate to it? And then further down into the sequence is Descension, the vortex. Which is grumbling and angry coming from the centre of the Earth. You can hear it, you can feel it.'

The sculpture in the video was installed in a gallery, and for me, part of its power comes from it being open, exposed - it looks as if you could walk or crawl right up to it and peer in, or even get sucked in!

After this, another version of Descension was installed in a waterfront park in Brooklyn, NYC (May - Oct 2017). This version was much larger - 26 feet across - but it had a fence installed around (I assume so people didn't fall in - intentionally or not - or mess with it).

So even though people could come right up to it and peer over the fence, when I look at photos of this fenced in/off version, it feels like it's lost much of its power, because now people were cut off from the possibilities of exposure, of descending.

But then again, The public art web site about the NYC installation says,

' ... Descension is ... exploring the potential of water to behave in surprising ways. The continuous swirling motion of this 26-foot-diameter liquid mass converges in a central vortex, as if rushing water is being sucked into the earth’s depths. We thus experience Kapoor’s abstract form on multiple levels. Its powerful physicality has a visceral and mesmerizing impact. Yet Descension also stimulates the imagination and suggests a social, cultural, and even mythic dimension.

So maybe it wasn't as 'cut off' from exposure as I might imagine?

And, hmmm ... ''That’s what art does, ...' or perhaps, that's what Water or the Yi does: It doesn’t say this means that ... that it's much more interesting when we ask, how do we relate?

... and then again,

Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world’s great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of the rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs.

I am haunted by waters.
- Norman Maclean, A River Runs Through It​

Thanks for sharing, d.
 
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Trojina

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But then again, The public art web site about the NYC installation says,

' ... Descension is ... exploring the potential of water to behave in surprising ways. The continuous swirling motion of this 26-foot-diameter liquid mass converges in a central vortex, as if rushing water is being sucked into the earth’s depths. We thus experience Kapoor’s abstract form on multiple levels. Its powerful physicality has a visceral and mesmerizing impact. Yet Descension also stimulates the imagination and suggests a social, cultural, and even mythic dimension.
Isn't it just the same as watching water go down the plug hole in the kitchen sink ? it suggests 'a social, cultural, and even mythic dimension' ? :confused: It does ?
 

rodaki

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hello guys!

Thanks for all the extra info you shared Freedda! to be completely honest, I didn't look it up at all before sharing, I know a couple of things about Kapoor and his works but the impression that one gave me was enough . . I also found it while I had very strong 29 type feelings (the compulsion to dive into something I can't fully understand, the feeling of dread and yet being drawn into it) so it made a powerful impression on me

As far as the water down the drain comment (hi Trojina!) I think that if looking at those different images makes you feel the same way, then yes, it is like water down the drain . . For me the difference in size, proportion, the colour of the water, its foamy surface, the force of movement etc etc make it a wholly different kind of thing with different connotations (and it follows, a wholly different kind of experience) . .
I think at the end of the day, and especially since it's art we 're talking about, it's all largely in the eye of the beholder ;)

eta: I wonder though if, even water down the drain, seen under the right circumstances and frame of mind and emotional state, might not produce feelings of greater meaning and grander dimensions, similar to those attributed to this work by critics . . (again the 'meaning is in the eye of the beholder' thought)
 

Liselle

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Isn't it just the same as watching water go down the plug hole in the kitchen sink ? it suggests 'a social, cultural, and even mythic dimension' ? :confused: It does ?
There is such a thing as being overly dramatic, of course. (Artists are never, ever prone to that, of course. ;)) But I agree with Rodaki; the mere size does have an effect, I think. The kitchen sink can't hurt me; this thing could.

Kan is associated with danger. And David used the word "exposure" several times - for some reason that word is ringing a bell with kan for me. (Although I can't find it anywhere, so maybe not!)

The sculpture in the video was installed in a gallery, and for me, part of its power comes from it being open, exposed - it looks as if you could walk or crawl right up to it and peer in, or even get sucked in!
[...]
So even though people could come right up to it and peer over the fence, when I look at photos of this fenced in/off version, it feels like it's lost much of its power, because now people were cut off from the possibilities of exposure, of descending.
[...]
So maybe it wasn't as 'cut off' from exposure as I might imagine?
 

Trojina

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Rodaki

eta: I wonder though if, even water down the drain, seen under the right circumstances and frame of mind and emotional state, might not produce feelings of greater meaning and grander dimensions, similar to those attributed to this work by critics . . (again the 'meaning is in the eye of the beholder' thought)
As a young child I think I was utterly terrified at the sight and sound of water going down the drain so for me being small and not knowing where this loud pulling vortex was going I might have thought it could take me with it. It seemed alive and loud especially the one in the bath. Shudder.

I don't associate the art with 29 though because 29 keeps flowing and I see it as moving fast through landscape rather than a vortex from which there is no escape.
 

rodaki

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As a young child I think I was utterly terrified at the sight and sound of water going down the drain so for me being small and not knowing where this loud pulling vortex was going I might have thought it could take me with it. It seemed alive and loud especially the one in the bath. Shudder.

I don't associate the art with 29 though because 29 keeps flowing and I see it as moving fast through landscape rather than a vortex from which there is no escape.
I love these thoughts! (and thanks for sharing them)
Seems to me like you've found your way out of the repeated dangers, flow onwards!! :)
I'll admit I still find myself sucked into vortexes but I'm learning, I hope! :rolleyes:
 

Freedda

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There is such a thing as being overly dramatic, of course. (Artists are never, ever prone to that, of course. ;)) But I agree with Rodaki; the mere size does have an effect, I think. The kitchen sink can't hurt me; this thing could.

Kan is associated with danger. And David used the word "exposure" several times - for some reason that word is ringing a bell with kan for me. (Although I can't find it anywhere, so maybe not!)
So, a few responses all rolled into one: I don't make an exact match-up between this art piece and the hexgram/trigram Kan, though some associations with the art and imagery do 'light up' for me: especially the idea of exposure, of plunging in, of being close to a powerful, moving force that you could fall or be sucked into.

And as to where the water is flowing - in this case down into the Earth as opposed to down a river - again, for me the connections are felt more than literal - though there are sinkholes and whirlpools found on rivers too.

All this very much reminds me of Kan, but just as 'art is in the eye of ...' some of these assocations might be in my mind's eye alone.

It could well be true that the 'a social, cultural, and even mythic dimension' is the spin creation of the public art website's PR person, but on the othes hand, I have been next to moving waters - rivers, wild oceans, waterfalls, tidal exchanges - that feel powerful - and 'mythic' might not be too strong a word to describe that. As to 'social and cultural dimensions' - as I said, maybe spin? And of course these are not the words of the artist, whom might have an entirely different 'spin' on the piece.

(When I was in NYC earlier this year to take a class with Harmen I went to a gallery, where one large room held an 'art' piece or installation made up entirely of disgarded baby carriages (prams) mixed in with canvas cargo straps! I believe the write-up may have talked about the political or cultural aspects or messages of the piece.)

As to Exposure, that is the title/handle Bradford Hatcher uses for the gua and bagua Kan, and it might also have been used the the Ten Wings too?

all the best, D.
 

Liselle

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I don't make an exact match-up between this art piece and the hexgram/trigram Kan,
Oh, I didn't mean to imply you were, apologies if I left that impression.


As to Exposure, that is the title/handle Bradford Hatcher uses for the gua and bagua Kan, and it might also have been used the the Ten Wings too?
Ah. Glad to know I did indeed see it somewhere! (But I wasn't, again, trying to imply that you said "exposure" with that intent...)
 

Freedda

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Oh, I didn't mean to imply you were, apologies if I left that impression.
'No worries' (as they say across the border up in BC). I never took what was said as anything implied. For me, this has been a very interesting and worthwhile exchange.

Best, D :bows:
 
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charly

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... I still find myself sucked into vortexes but I'm learning, I hope! :rolleyes:
Dear Dora:

I'm glad to see you again in the forum. I've missed you so much all this time!

I wonder what has happened to the vortex, but I don't worry, there are all sorts of vortexes everywhere. I myself am feeling trapped but I'm also trying to learn. We'll see!

It encourages me the facts that «things are not what they seem», that «appearances deceive» and that «nothing lasts forever».

Let us look as an example: maybe all we have felt like dancing unnoticed, blindfolded, on the edge of the abyss, but sometimes abysses are mere illusion. The bad notice is that seemingly harmless things can be true abysses, traps waiting for us to stumble into them to devour us.

But meanwile we don't know the true, why worry?

[to be continued]

All the best,

Charly
 
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charly

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Dear Dora:
On «things are not what they seem» can look here...

Manara wrote in 1988:
Translated with the help of Google:

"Is it true that appearance deceives? ... Maybe it's only half true, apparently only. Apparently, the appearance deceives. The deception of appearance is not a real deception. It's just an apparent deception. Or do I deceive myself? One can never rest. One can never be sure of anything. At least in appearance ...

Some stories ... contain more doubts than certainties, more appearances that deception, more love than anguish. At least apparently. If I do not deceive myself. "
M. Manara: Appearance deceives, del Griffo, 1988

In short: "things are not what they seem", seemingly.

Charly
As soon as possible:
1_4_Dancing_by_the_Abyss.png

Do you recognize the scene? Do you remember what comes next?
DANCING ON THE EDGE OF THE ABYSS​
[to be continued]

All the best,

Charly
 
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my_key

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Hi Rodaki
It's a delight to have your thought provoking insights back in the threads.

I also found it while I had very strong 29 type feelings (the compulsion to dive into something I can't fully understand, the feeling of dread and yet being drawn into it) so it made a powerful impression on me
Here's a few thoughts and images:
Hex 29 is a learning experience from diving in and facing the fears. We may have to do this a million times and in a million ways. Sometimes we see the pit / the vortex and willingly jump in and at other times we are drawn in unconsciously. With each exposure we grow in our ability to fly safely and the real or perceived danger becomes less. Going down the plug hole, not good - overcoming the forces of the vortex, good. As Karcher says "Making a move in the face of danger brings honour". We just have to avoid the Icarus moments, if we can.

Art is everything. Kapoor and his works or Charlie Chaplin (Thanks Charly- I'd not seen that clip before. Knife edge, seat of the pants stuff) or water going down the plug hole may give us symbolic and meaningful eye candy however the art we each create every day is what matters here at 29. It's not always inspected as closely as it could be and we miss some of the clues that could help us through. Standing in Australia the water draws us in a different way than it does in the UK.

From Hex 28 we've not been able to make the traverse and with our ridgepole warping we are thrown once more into daily challanges to which we are asked to rise. Sink or swim . Awareness of our dilemma grows the more we are exposed and with this increasing consciousness we are able to escape, fly high and shine....... eventually!

Or it may be none of this.

Good Luck
 

charly

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Tings are not what they seem
The roller skating scene from Charlie Chaplin’s Modern Times
In the classic 1936 film Modern Times, silent film star Charlie Chaplin plays a poor American worker during the industrialization of the Machine Age. A bit into the film, he acquires a job as a night watchman in a department store and lets in a penniless young woman, played by Paulette Goddard, to experience its luxuries. When they both try on roller skates in the store’s toy department, a classic scene comes to life.
Spoiler alert! Chaplin was never in danger while filming. The gif below shows how a visual effect technique called a ‘glass matte painting shot’ helped them accomplish the harrowing scene.
Be sure to watch the illusion in the scene above again to find the moment when his back wheel briefly disappears behind the matte.

...
...

Source: «The Kid Should See This» connects busy teachers and parents to a growing library of smart, short, and super-cool, “not-made-for-kids, but perfect for them” videos ...
Link: https://thekidshouldseethis.com/post/the-roller-skating-scene-from-charlie-chaplins-modern-times

The danger was real, in the fiction. But in the reality there were another sources of danger that passed unnoticed.

All the best,

Charly
 
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my_key

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Tings are not what they seem

The danger was real, in the fiction. But in the reality there were another sources of danger that passed unnoticed.
Indeed they are not. I'm glad you pointed out the safety precautions taken. My heart was in my mouth with a few of CC's close shaves with the edge. The film crew had certainly created a realistic illusion for the viewers.

The fear of facing the fear is greater than facing the fear of the danger itself. Then when we take the right precautions there was no danger there at all, or the danger has diminished to levels we can contend with.
 

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