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Hexagrams with moving lines

sliponshoe

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there's a method in which one adds the moving lines of a hexagram not at once but one after the other, i.e. if you have a hexagram with two moving lines you get two extra hexagrams with the former being the one with the first moving line changed and the latter being the one with both lines moved to the opposite.
i know it's common to simply add both moving lines at once so that you get only one hexagram. but some say that by moving one line after the other you get several hexagrams showing you the way to achieve the end result, i.e. the final hexagram. what do you think about this method?
 

millie

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yes, i use the steps of change to help me understand a deeper level of the answer. this is also why i use the nuclear hexagrams.
 

bradford_h

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Actually there are two methods like this.
One is called Steps of Change and is attributed to Karcher.
The other is called Transitional Hexagrams and is attributed to both Mondo Secter and myself since the mid-seventies. This method changes the lowest line first and sends you to an intermediiate hexagram to read the next changing line there. The final hexagram is the same, but once you leave the lowest line in the origingal hexagram you're outta there.
This is the method I use.
 

sliponshoe

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thanks. so do you also have to read the remaining moving lines of the intermediate hexagrams or only the general remarks?
 

millie

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intersting. i guess i don't understand the difference between the two methods, and now i wonder which one i'm using. so for example, my recent inquiry yielded 59 with lines 3 and 6 changing to 48. if i do this:

read hex 59
read hex 59 line 3
read hex 57 line 3
read hex 59 line 6
read hex 29 line 6
read hex 48

which method have i just used? steps of change or transformational?
 
M

micheline

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millie, the steps of change according to karcher would go like this:
59.3 > 57
59.6 > 29
59.3.6 > 48
your steps of change would be 57, 29, to 48
I dont use the lines in the steps of change hexagrams. I use the steps of change to see how the process forward would occur.
In other words , it would say the process of 59.3.6 here would involve a gentle (selfless) penetration of the issue, maybe some dangerous "waters" to be traversed, and ultimately finding the wellspring you need.or something like that.

Brad's, I believe, would go 59.3 > 57 > 57.6 > 48

I think.
 

bradford_h

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millie-

with the transitional hexagrams for 59.3,6
you would read only these four:
59.0 (and 59.T & 59.X)
59.3
57.6
48.0 (and 48.T & 48.X)

But like Micheline says, I suppose you could read 57.0 as well.

For those who understand this, the reason I like transitional hexagrams is that it keeps the texts on the same track as the zhi gua and fan yao dimension of the lines. All the texts you read are simple interpolations.
 

kevin

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The three methods are explained in this article:

'Flowers and Steps in the Boolean Lattice of Hexagrams' - Catchy title! - But very readable


Found at http://www.yijing.co.uk/ under Papers / Algebraic papers.

I must say though that I tend not to use any of these very often.

More often than not I find that it is 'as if' multiple lines are changing in order to associate other hexagrams with the Primary Hexagram. This is most often certainly true for three or more lines changing.

I have just done 4 interpretations for folk this evening - all of them with multiple moving lines - in every case the multiple lines were not significant.

However the change operators and the Resulting Hexagram were all very central.

But it varies.

All the best

--Kevin
 

millie

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fascinating. nice to see i have been following the beat of my own drummer.

in this example, it is nice to see that 29 stays out of the picture. so when there are multiple changing lines, you only read the first one in the original hex, and then ready the next line in the new hex. what if there are multiple changing lines, do you simply continue in this way? also, huang write about only reading one of the lines. like, when there are three changing lines he says to read the middle line. is that unique to him or do you and karcher also use this?
 

bradford_h

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There are lots of methods for multiple lines. It merits at least a small book. If you search this site's engine for the word "multiple" in thread titles you'll find lots of discussion. The most popular method is from the 12th century work of Zhuxi, Yixue Qimeng (formerly spelled Chu Hsi, I-hsueh Ch'i-meng), available on Amazon, translated by Joseph Adler. Lots of other good stuff in there too, for a small book.

Yes, for three lines you just have another changing line in another intermediate Gua,
 
P

peace

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Hi everyone:

Can you please let me know if I'm doing this right -

I got 6 with changing lines 1,2,6 - relating hex. is 17.

Normally I read 6 in my books(without any lines) and then I read the lines (1,2,6) progressively.

With the step method, would I do the following:

I read 6.
I read 6.1
I read 10 (without the lines).
I read 10.2
I read 25 (without the lines).
I ready 25.6
I read 17 (without the lines).

And the hex. I normally wouldn't be reading for this question (10, 10.2, 25, 25.6) will give me more information?

For those who use this method - can it confuse things?

Thanks - I know you've spent a lot of time explaining this and I thank you in advance for doing this one more time.

Rosalie
 
P

peace

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Oops - didn't ask everything.

Once again:

I got 6 with changing lines 1,2,6

Do I read 6,6.1, 6.2, 6.6 and the intermediates also (hex. 10 along with 10.2 and 25 and 25.6)?

So - how do the nuclear trigrams fit for 6.
Do I also figure out the nuclear trigrams for 10 and 25 and then convert those to the new nuclear hexagrams.

For example:

For 6 the nuclear trigrams are: Sun/Li which gives me hex. 37.
Would I then do the same for 10 and 25?

Thanks again,
Rosalie
 

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