Hexamgrams 14 and 61: Relationship - What Should I do?

[humblesoul]

I am new to this Forum and not used to Social Networking Sites. I have done the iChing for many years and often, when stuck, read this Forum. I usually trust my instincts, which rarely let me down, or, as I said, have a look at other comments. Now I am flummoxed and would appreciate some help.

I had a falling out with a friend - a person who I know on a personal level, via social contacts and on a professional level - rather spectacularly we fell out on both levels (it seems). I think we were both in the right/wrong in our way at handling the situation. However I wished to know what I could or should do. At first I asked if I should write to X or do nothing, and I received Hexagrams 64 (moving lines 3, 4 and 5) leading to 57. Then I asked:

"Other than wait, can I do anything to win back X's friendship and keep my self respect"

I received 14 - moving lines 3, 4 and 5 and 61. Whilst I have read about being modest and kind and to be sincere, this only tells me how my attitude should be, not what I could do. And whilst I understand that 61 relates to being honest with oneself, I am still puzzled. I am, what may be called an 'over-giver' - someone who apologizes continuously for other people's mistakes, who takes responsibility, who offers help when none is required - and I think this is what led me to fall out with my friend. I fear that acting now will be just a continuation of this - but if I don't act then nothing will change - hence the reason I did the IChing

Does anyone have any interpretation of 14 - esp the lines (leading to 61) which may help me make a decision and understand what I should do? Thanks

 

[yxeli]

Hi,

Just a few thought regarding your question.

I should write to X or do nothing, and I received Hexagrams 64 (moving lines 3, 4 and 5) leading to 57.

Your posing 2 questions to the Yi at once here, which will make you feel pretty confused about Yis response. If you were to recast and ask two seperate queries, for instance 'what would the outcome be if i wrote x a letter?" and a seperate cast of 'what would happen if i do nothing'? I think you would be able to interpret better.

"Other than wait, can I do anything to win back X's friendship and keep my self respect"

again, another complicated query with multiple intentions.

Maybe start by asking Yi

'The reality of the situation now with x'

'My best stance in regard to the situation'

etc.


Bests,

Yx

 

[mirian]

Hi humblesoul,

I agree with yxeli on that. It makes it difficult to understand what the Yi is actually saying when we pose a question like "Should I do this OR that ?
So, while you consider another cast & questions I would just like to share my impression about your Hex 14 lines 3, 4 and 5.
It seems to me that is addressing your attitude right now, that you feel that it is somehow up to you to do something about it. It looks like that you are on the verge of doing something to rectify the situation and you might push the issue a bit too hard, you might come across as a little bit forceful, trying to control or dominate the situation.

Again, it is just an initial impression about your readings for the reasons that have been discussed above.

 

[foxx777]

I am new to this Forum and not used to Social Networking Sites. I have done the iChing for many years and often, when stuck, read this Forum. I usually trust my instincts, which rarely let me down, or, as I said, have a look at other comments. Now I am flummoxed and would appreciate some help.

I had a falling out with a friend - a person who I know on a personal level, via social contacts and on a professional level - rather spectacularly we fell out on both levels (it seems). I think we were both in the right/wrong in our way at handling the situation. However I wished to know what I could or should do. At first I asked if I should write to X or do nothing, and I received Hexagrams 64 (moving lines 3, 4 and 5) leading to 57. Then I asked:

"Other than wait, can I do anything to win back X's friendship and keep my self respect"

I received 14 - moving lines 3, 4 and 5 and 61. Whilst I have read about being modest and kind and to be sincere, this only tells me how my attitude should be, not what I could do. And whilst I understand that 61 relates to being honest with oneself, I am still puzzled. I am, what may be called an 'over-giver' - someone who apologizes continuously for other people's mistakes, who takes responsibility, who offers help when none is required - and I think this is what led me to fall out with my friend. I fear that acting now will be just a continuation of this - but if I don't act then nothing will change - hence the reason I did the IChing

Does anyone have any interpretation of 14 - esp the lines (leading to 61) which may help me make a decision and understand what I should do? Thanks

You sound a lot like me In terms of being an over-giver and an over-apologizer. No, do not continue that trend, it does not work. Try and see if this gives you any insight: I take the below to mean you have already done enough. The other person should know this, and come back to you. Be sweet and aloof and brief in your contacts.

14. Noble Presence

Line 3:

A duke presents offerings to the Son of Heaven,
an ordinary person cannot.

Being in a unique position to do something for someone, that others are not able to do.
(The Son of Heaven is the king.)

Line 4:

It is not one's pride.
Without fault.

Something that one would have been proud of isn't happening. One isn't at fault.

Line 5:

Bowing deeply to a trustworthy associate,
with dignity.
Good fortune.

Respecting a trustworthy person one associates with, with dignity. Things go well.

Hexagram is changing to:

61. Inner Trust

Inner trust of piglets and fishes.
Good fortune.
It is beneficial to cross the big river.
It is beneficial to persist.

Having confidence like piglets and fishes have. Things go well. This is a good moment for big undertakings. Keep going on.
(Inner trust is trust in oneself: confidence. The natural behavior of young pigs and of fish is with a lot of confidence.)

 

[humblesoul]

Sorry for not writing to each of you above, personally - So much to think about. I think you all say something really valid and I agree that asking X or Y is probably not the most helpful - in fact the very idea now that I've read your comments (above) sounds in-itself as if I am trying to force the issue - I never thought of that.

Thanks again!

 

[long yi]

Relationship: to have or not to have

I convert your reading into a traditional 6 line Iching reading and provide the following analysis (see the information after the Chinese letters).

出生时间：年　性别：女　起卦方式：直接指定
起卦时间：2012年05月23日08时25分
起卦农历：壬辰年闰四月初三日辰时
立夏：2012年05月05日10时40分　　　中华预测网
芒种：2012年06月05日14时50分　http://www.zhycw.com
神煞：天乙—丑未　福星—寅　日禄—寅　羊刃—卯　驿马—寅　桃花—酉　华盖—辰
干支：壬辰年　乙巳月　甲申日　戊辰时
旬空：午未　　寅卯　　午未　　戌亥


六神　 伏神 　　　乾宫：火天大有（归魂）　　　　艮宫：风泽中孚（游魂）
　　　　　　　　　【本　卦】　　　　　　　　　　　【变　卦】
玄武　　　　　　　▅▅▅▅▅　官鬼己巳火　应　　　▅▅▅▅▅　妻财辛卯木　　
白虎　　　　　　　▅▅　▅▅　父母己未土　　×→　▅▅▅▅▅　官鬼辛巳火　　
滕蛇　　　　　　　▅▅▅▅▅　兄弟己酉金　　○→　▅▅　▅▅　父母辛未土　世
勾陈　　　　　　　▅▅▅▅▅　父母甲辰土　世○→　▅▅　▅▅　父母丁丑土　　
朱雀　　　　　　　▅▅▅▅▅　妻财甲寅木　　　　　▅▅▅▅▅　妻财丁卯木　　
青龙　　　　　　　▅▅▅▅▅　子孙甲子水　　　　　▅▅▅▅▅　官鬼丁巳火　应

If you (querent) are a female, this hexagram 14 has 1 yin line and five yang lines. When it comes to male friends, you have many choices. In this analysis, I assume "X" is a man, and not a woman.

Line 3 is the host line (you), it is a change line indicating relationships are deteriorating because the relationship star move backwards by several knots.

Line 4 is a man or woman who used to be of close relationship to line 3. This line is a change line. As it moves, the relationship star sits under the day of the Iching reading. You do not consider him a soul mate. hIs relationship stand in line 4 of hexagram 61 is in conflict with your view of the relationship star in line line 3 of hexagram 61. This means you two have conflicts.

Line 5 relationship star changes to the "man" in line 5 of hexagram 61, which is also the same man in line 6 of hexagram 14. This indicates that relationship is in trouble.

Line 6 is your friend X (guest line).
In hexgram 14, both line 6 and 4 are yang line. Both of you are at odds and do not share the same view. You still consider this person X a good companion because he sits in the house of marriage or serious friendship (under the month of the Iching reading date).

Hexagram 61 is nicked name "soul drifting". Things come and go without reaching a fruitful conclusion.

If you carefully examine line 6 of hexagram 61, it refers to a female (probably you) and this star sits under the month of your Iching reading. This means he does not think of you as a serious friend. There is no spot for you in his house of friendship and marriage.

In hexagram 61, the line 6 woman gives birth to the line 5 the man "X" in five element analysis (wood produces fire). However, the woman with the wood character is very weak this month and there is no way to transmit her feelings to X for a fruitful discussion.

Heaxgram 61 has two men (line 1,5 or can be the same man), and two females (line 2,6 or can be the same female) and two serious marriage or serious friendship star (line 3 & 4). Line 3 and 4 means the door in Iching. Since the line 3 and line 4 are in conflict with each other. This relationship goes nowhere. Half foot in, half foot out for both parties.

Let stop a minutes and quickly review your previous reading:
Hexagrams 64 (moving lines 3, 4 and 5) leading to 57.

Without using any 6 line Iching analysis, hexagram 64 means the fire and water reaches equilibrium, any movement result in chaos. The relationship weakens.

Hexagram 57 is one of the 8 pure hexagram wherein the upper trigram (line 4-6) and the lower trigram (line 1 to 3) are identical. In relationship analysis, it is called a "six conflict" hexagram. This relationship will not result in a serious friendship or marriage.
Acceptance and compliance are required to keep peace (cease fire) between you and X.

Now, we turn to the teaching of Lover's Iching (Ma, Rosemary Burr etc.):
Hexgram 61: Your views are different. You have to convince each other and communicate. On the surface, there is nothing that binds this relationship together.

Two things:
1. You have to decide on mutually acceptable goals if you want to continue.
2. There is a deep seated problem, you cannot start something that you do not plan to continue.

Patience and commitment are the key. If you are not ready and so is he in reaching an agreement, there is no point to continue.

If couples of the above type enter into a relationship, there will be many differences and dissatisfaction initially. One must work very hard to keep it together. It will not be a smooth path. Outcome can be good at the end. I do not think "X" is willing or ready.

Both of you have other choices... I think.