Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
Why? First and foremost, I think it's very hard to really know what a line means - or even a hexgram, trigram, etc. - when we take it out of context, e.g. try to understanding it outside of a specific reading or query. But since that specific is absent here, and since I've already weighed in on this line, here's what I also come up against:
So, again, if you find some understanding here, that's great! Truly. But for me, it's an instance of Karcher making me work way too hard to understand the line's meaning.
- The line here is something like: meeting / (a) maseter / on-along-in / alley, side street, narrow lane / no blame, or nothing is wrong, And that's it, no dark anyone, no crooked anything.
- Theres a lot implied by Karcher that we simply have no way of knowing: is this meeting in an aside place necessary, or advisable, or being forced upon us? And does this necessarily make either the Lord dark, or the road crooked? I just don't see it.
- Karcher's words also seem to add some sense of cause-and-effect or blame, or something that I don't read into the line, and which seem like add-ons to me, e.g. the Lord (zhu) has become 'dark' because of ... or, the road is now crooked because .....
- Your take on this implies a kind of journey or steps along a path, e.g. line 1 leads to line 2 leads to line 3 .... But in fact, in any given reading we may not have all these 'steps' - for example Mandarin's reading, 38.2.5 to 25, where we don't have lines 1, 3,4, 6 as part of the reading.
Best, D.
I think it does.............Until I become curious about the next Karcherism that reels me in.Exactly.
Well, that's sort of the bottom line I think. Best, D.
Hi Michael and David:Another Karcherism !
38.2
Diverging. The Shadowlands.
Meeting the Hidden Lord of the Crooked Path.
This is not a mistake.
...
So I would appreciate any contributions people can make as to why the lord is 'hidden' and the path is described as 'crooked' in Karchers rendition.
The chinese traditional received text for 38.2 says:
遇主于巷,无咎。
yu4 zhu3 yu2 xiang4 wu2 yu4
MEETING MASTER AT ALLEY NO WRONG
Master is ambiguous enough to mean lord, sage, patron,
but I've always believed that here applies to somebody
able to give GUIDANCE,
maybe keeping low profile,
unknown, at least for the public.
Annotation:
遇 yu4: variant of 遘 gou4 to MEET, to come across, bump into unexpectedly, to come upon suddenly / relationships between men and women.
主 zhu3: owner / master / host / leader / individual or party concerned / God / Lord / main / to indicate or signify / trump card (in card games)
于 yu2 : in, at, on, from, to.
巷 xiang4: alley, lane, street, forked road, crossroads.
Sources: CJKV and MDBG online dictionaries.
Alley: passage in a house; open passage between buildings; walkway in a garden ... Applied by c. 1500 to "long narrow enclosure for playing at bowls, skittles, etc." Used in place names from c. 1500. "In U.S. applied to what in London is called a Mews" [OED], and in American English especially of a back-lane parallel to a main street (1729).
Source: Etymonline
巷 xiang4 is the chinese character for translating «alley» in Chinatown, San Francisco, as can be seen here:
Hi Michael:I've not been walking this thread path for a while. Looking here, though, at the dark and murkey maze of back alleyways that we may be walking down alone ( because we have lost our horse) we unexpectedly bump into something that we think is going to do us harm but instead gives us guidance on how to get out of, or find our way through, the maze of back streets.
...
Taking this path means we must first encounter some unsavoury experiences (past and present) and this creates a setback in the plans we had set (38.3). The setback further isolates us and throws us in with the tricksters (38.4), We learn how to deal with this internal turmoil. In for a penny in for a pound! Onwards and Upwards! (38.5) The road less travelled by looks really green and shiny after a spot of rain (38.6).
Hi Moss:I don't think there are any moral implications in this line, especially no 'crooks' or 'crookedness'. If Karcher added them,
I think he did so in error.
I don't read Karcher on purpose.
(after speed reading through what he writes.) He adds too many detours and tangents from the path. He reminds me of my ever 'optimistic' friend who plays devils advocate for any position or argument saying, "well it could be...."
And I often say,
"Yes friend, but it's not."
I don't know how this would fit with the Chinese text, and it may have its own symbol not zhu3 but from what you say here I'd be drawn to the word 'Guardian' with it's early connections to warding. Maybe the gender is just a hang over from the times of the text - most important deities were male back in the day. 'Hidden' because as Wilhelm says this is an "unexpected meeting".I never liked the word LORD here, it's a fair translation but it needs some adjective like HIDDEN to acquire sense. But why a gendered word? A person able to give GUIDANCE, a LEADER I believe fits better.
When you first meet a marriage partner it is not always love at first sight. However attitudes look to have changed by the time the crooked path has led to 38.6.I agree with you that can be not only a person but also An EXPERIENCE, the experience of MEETING, establishing a bond between predestinated people, like between MARRIAGABLE RELATIVES.(1)
The appearance of all the hexagram looks STRANGE. It brings, I believe, strange connotations to all the lines. Not all the ALLEYS were narrow, forked, crooked. Not all were ground for clandestine or disreputable activities, but the word cames with all those senses. I believe that CROOKED have both, the descriptive sense applied to the street and the moral sense applied to the persons and their activities.
Agree. 38.6 - they are "not an invader, but a suitor" or as Karcher puts it "Those you are confronting are definitely not outlaws.But maybe all that is but mere PREJUDICE, that's why the line ends stating «No wrong» in spite of appearances. Appearances deceive.
Time ago I found a connection between H.33's ALLEY (2) and Spoffor Alley in S.F. Chinatown, the history of Wuhan Hubei Uprising, 1911 revolution, Sun Yatsen ... Had you seen the former quotations?
(3) In wuhan 1911 there was still no coronavirus!
There are many forms to say LEADER, one of them 主謀, shu3mou2 leader, mastermind. [CJKV] A strategist.I don't know how this would fit with the Chinese text, and it may have its own symbol not zhu3 but from what you say here I'd be drawn to the word 'Guardian' with it's early connections to warding. Maybe the gender is just a hang over from the times of the text - most important deities were male back in the day. 'Hidden' because as Wilhelm says this is an "unexpected meeting".
Chinese marriage custom changed. In Zhou times a high class, HONORALE MARRIAGE must be arranged between the parents of both families, without the personal involvement of brides and grooms.When you first meet a marriage partner it is not always love at first sight. However attitudes look to have changed by the time the crooked path has led to 38.6.
I love that VILLAIN WITHIN US, but I espect that we will not be the NOSELESS BRANDED MAN, Nobody's perfect!I had not seen it like that before, however we certainly come up against the villian within us ( branded man with no nose) and the trickster fox and the 'hungry souls and angry ghosts' in Line 4. Having met them on the lonely road we have to join with them to make peace with them in some way: to make peace with ourselves. This line reminds me a bit of a Dark Night of the Soul experience. This is the only way forward and as Huang notes this is a place to "fuse sincerity and truthfulness" and 'their minds can be communicated and filled".
I've said that 38 is a STRANGE hexagram. Is that there are PIGS everywhere? And for worse dirty!Agree. 38.6 - they are "not an invader, but a suitor" or as Karcher puts it "Those you are confronting are definitely not outlaws.
匪 | fei3 | not / bandit / |
寇 | kou4 | bandit / robber / invader / |
婚 | hun1 | to marry / marriage / wedding / to take a wife / |
媾 | gou4 | to marry / to copulate / (3) |
Sun was a recognized leader and was not a gangster in spite of the fact that in Spofford Alley were more expected prostitution, drug trafficking and murder.If you mean the one about Spofford Alley, then yes. The place/ source of the dark and shady goings on of the Chinese Underworld (The Shadow Lands). Tong ruled and with a bit of free masonry thrown in for good measure.
I read it when a was a boy. Please, don't ask me how old I am now! It comes to my mind because in the strip that I've posted here is a sample of H.44 GOU's GIRL, a STRONG LADY indeed.'Alley Oop' from my understanding is a French / English commingling. Allez - "go forward" ; "oop" the English word 'up' but supposed how it would be said with a French accent, The comic strip I have not seen before, however, the phrase reminds me of circus rings and the lion tamer prompting the animal to jump from one place to another or shouted when in the process of jumping through the hoops.
China 1911 conditions were so bad that didn't need coronavirus for worsening. I believe.Incubation periods can be a long time and conditions have to be right for the effects of viruses to show themselves.
Good Luck
Thanks, LiSe.For me meeting a "master" means meeting someone who can tell you what to do, who can give advice or teach. If that is on some public place, you find advice which is commonly accepted. In an alley you get the weird kind, very individual, maybe not at all approved of by others.
I got this line when I met someone who was certainly not approved of by the people I live with, but who was for me a great help. Without him I would have had a very hard time.
It did not do any harm to anyone, so I did not listen to the protests.
That master does not have to be a person, it may be your own insight or experience, which teaches you what to do or how to go on.
And more times than not see Hex 38 speaking to me about me and the roots of my experiences. What was real for me then - is it still real for me now?That master does not have to be a person, it may be your own insight or experience, which teaches you what to do or how to go on.
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).