How am I perceived?

[cris]

Greetings, clarity seekers!

Today I casted a reading and would love to hear your takes on it.

Q.: Dear Yi, please give me insight into how people perceive me (i.e. how I come across).
R.: 38.3 > 14

Sounds a bit ominous... although the concept of divergence with all its consequences hits close to home. Help!

 

[willowfox]

Line 38.3 suggests that you don't come across well to others for whatever reason.

 

[knotxx]

This line is always a hard one for me. On the one hand, yes, the line is about [source of question] not looking good (quite literally, nose cut off). But it is in the context of Great Possession, which is about huge value. Sometimes for me this line has been about what I imagine -- something that looks horrid and scary to me, but which in reality has turned out to be really useful and good. (for example, "this repair guy is out to rob me!" but in the end he gives good service at a fair price)

so . . . that could suggest that people are not seeing your real value. But I also wonder if there's anything about your own imaginings here. Are you afraid that other people see you in a really bad way, that they want to attack or shame you? it could be your own vision, here

 

[pocossin]

How am I perceived?
38.3 > 14

☲ ☲
☱ ☰

Hexagram pictures: Home Inverted, Axhead Down

In the early phase of life represented by hexagram 38, a person grows by finding friends outside the home. Hexagram 14 is correlative with the 14th chapter of Walden in which Thoreau considers the spiritual atmosphere of Walden Woods. Great possessions aren't just physical.

Overall judgment: The casting suggests that you are perceived as too eager to please so that your real qualities stay hidden.

Text:

38J
Opposition. In small matters, good fortune.

Childhood friendships are often transient.

38I
Above, fire; below, the lake:
The image of Opposition.
Thus amid all fellowship
The superior man retains his individuality.

Exactly my point.

38.3
Six in the third place means:
One sees the wagon dragged back,
The oxen halted,
A man's hair and nose cut off.
Not a good beginning, but a good end.

Friendships that are too easily made are easily broken.

14J
Possession in Great Measure.
Supreme success.

The potential is there.

 

[ginnie]

Overall judgment: The casting suggests that you are perceived as too eager to please so that your real qualities stay hidden.

Pocossin, are you saying that her real qualities cannot be seen because of her eagerness to please?

In other words, that she is what we call a people pleaser? She comes off as very agreeable?

In any case, she feels her reputation is at stake.

The text speaks of mutilation and cutting. Marking the person as what? Why is punishment of people mentioned at all? Or does it just indicate a terrible fear of punishment, if we don't conform to the expectations of others?

This line may indicate a difference between what a person really believes and what she feels she may safely say or do. She may have to retract her words and change her opinion when challenged or overpowered, else risk losing face. And sometimes we are held -- or our carriage, whatever that may be, our vehicle -- can be held fast for a time in such a way that we cannot get away.

Her good name is temporarily held captive by other people who may not even know her. She's fearful of saying what she really believes.

 

[ginnie]

But somehow, because of this opposition, her knowledge and convictions are deepened, become richer.

 

[pocossin]

Pocossin, are you saying that her real qualities cannot be seen because of her eagerness to please?

In other words, that she is what we call a people pleaser? She comes off as very agreeable?

In any case, she feels her reputation is at stake.

The text speaks of mutilation and cutting. Marking the person as what? Why is punishment of people mentioned at all? Or does it just indicate a terrible fear of punishment, if we don't conform to the expectations of others?

This line may indicate a difference between what a person really believes and what she feels she may safely say or do. She may have to retract her words and change her opinion when challenged or overpowered, else risk losing face. And sometimes we are held -- or our carriage, whatever that may be, our vehicle -- can be held fast for a time in such a way that we cannot get away.

Her good name is temporarily held captive by other people who may not even know her. She's fearful of saying what she really believes.

Ginnie, those are good questions but I don't see the situation like that. Cris's deeper qualities aren't coming to the surface. Failure to fully be oneself is a kind of mutilation.

 

[Trojina]

Greetings, clarity seekers!

Today I casted a reading and would love to hear your takes on it.

Q.: Dear Yi, please give me insight into how people perceive me (i.e. how I come across).
R.: 38.3 > 14

Sounds a bit ominous... although the concept of divergence with all its consequences hits close to home. Help!

38 is opposing viewpoints. IOW people seeing things differently. How could there possibly be one unified way for others to perceive you ? There are as many ways to perceive you as there are as many people to perceive you. It would be a unrealistic generalisation to come to any conclusion to how people see you from any answer but 38 seems apt in that it simply tells you they probably wouldn't agree on what you are like.

Your mother will see you very differently from you lover who will see you very differently from your colleague who will perceive you very differently to your child.....who will perceive you very differently from a stranger in the street ...and they are all 'people'.

38.3 may refer to some wounding to the self image through criticism somewhere along the line which gives rise to your question

 

[pocossin]

My point of view is that a person will appear differently to different people. Some perceive you one way and some quite another.

We aren't just superficial appearances. The unity of personality behind appearance comes through in the ordinary affairs of life in the smallest things -- even how keys and charms are selected and arranged on a key ring or how vocabulary, phrasing, punctuation, and spacing are used in email. If the self were imprisoned, there would be no divinatory answer to cris's query.

 

[Trojina]

We aren't just superficial appearances. The unity of personality behind appearance comes through in the ordinary affairs of life in the smallest things -- even how keys and charms are selected and arranged on a key ring or how vocabulary, phrasing, punctuation, and spacing are used in email. If the self were imprisoned, there would be no divinatory answer to cris's query.

Thats as maybe but the querant asked how others perceived her. If she were in a room full of people and met each one and then later all those people were asked to say what she was like i doubt very much they would all say identical things becasue they would not have perceived her the same way. They may find things in common for stronger traits but still they will perceive her differently.

 

[sooo]

Greetings, clarity seekers!

Today I casted a reading and would love to hear your takes on it.

Q.: Dear Yi, please give me insight into how people perceive me (i.e. how I come across).
R.: 38.3 > 14

Sounds a bit ominous... although the concept of divergence with all its consequences hits close to home. Help!

Before and after reading this thread (so far), I have the same impression, that you stand out as a quality person who wears their heart on their sleeve. Also, that you would rather under-promise and over-deliver, than come up short on a promise. While all this is good, such downplaying of yourself and your abilities may cost good opportunities. But in the long run, your qualities become recognized.

 

[rosada]

I don't know what translations others are using but when I look at Wilhelm it appears the I Ching is telling you not to worry about how others perceive you, even when it appears their opinions are not positive.

" Often it seems to [you] as though everything were conspiring against [you]. [You] see [yourself] checked and hindered in your progress, insulted and dishonored. However, [you] must not let [yourself] be misled, despite this opposition, [you] must cleave to the man with whom [you] know [you] belong. Thus, not withstanding the bad beginning, the matter will end well."
-Wilhelm

I don't think this means you ARE perceived negativly, it's just the I Chings way of smacking us back in line when the ego might have been looking for a bit of approval. Like if you'd been asking, "Am I pretty?" and gotten this line the I Ching would be saying, "Don't worry, looks aren't everything." Ouch.
-Rosada

 

[Trojina]

I don't know what translations others are using but when I look at Wilhelm it appears the I Ching is telling you not to worry about how others perceive you, even when it appears their opinions are not positive.

" Often it seems to [you] as though everything were conspiring against [you]. [You] seee [yourself]checked and hindered in your progress, insulted and dishonored. However, [you] must not let [yourself] be misled, despite this opposition, [you] must cleave to the man with whom [you] know [you] belong. Thus, not withstanding the bad beginning, the matter will end well."
-Wilhelm

I don't think this means you ARE perceived negativly, it's just the I Chings way of smacking us back in line when the ego might have been looking bit of approval. Like if you'd been asking, "Am I pretty?" and gotten this line the I Ching would be saying, "Don't worry, looks aren't everything." Ouch.
-Wilhelm

Yes this is a strong aspect of 38...to not be afraid to be yourself or expect others approval all the time

 

[sooo]

I think asking how we are perceived by others presents a 20.6 view of ourselves. Potentially a very constructive question. If ego were to be removed from the equation, no one would be asking questions in the first place. What would anything matter to a "me" if there is no "me"?

The distinction in 38 is it's primary feature: not out of our sameness but our differences. To know how others see us is an important bit of information to know. That could be individual or work related, or any group, or activity, or just in general.

Last time I asked that question regarding a particular group, I was shocked out of my socks. Really made me rethink: me in regard to certain others. It was very constructive.

 

[rosada]

If Chris does suspect she is perceived negatively than 38.3 may be just the encouragement she needs. On the other hand, I'm just saying if she had not suspected there was any hostility I don't think she needs to get paranoid and think getting 38.3 means that there is.
Rosada

 

[sooo]

If Chris does suspect she is perceived negatively than 38.3 may be just the encouragement she needs. On the other hand, I'm just saying if she had not suspected there was any hostility I don't think she needs to get paranoid and think getting 38.3 means that there is.
Rosada

Maybe. I tend to see the head shaving and cutting off of the nose as something we do to ourselves, sometimes with good intentions*. As in - cutting off our nose to spite our face, but often without malice or intent, and even in the name of modesty. "Mary, I've heard that you are very good with painting landscapes!" "Oh, I'm ok, I suppose, but there are much better than I" Mary replies. ....thinking to herself, "ooh, I'd better find someone else to paint my mural." Mary cut her own nose off. This is the impression I received re Cris' Q&A.

*The phrase is known to have been used in the 12th century. It may be associated with the numerous cases of pious women disfiguring themselves in order to protect their virginity. These cases include Saint Eusebia, Saint Ebba, Saint Oda of Hainault and Saint Margaret of Hungary.[2] Wiki

 

[ginnie]

It may be associated with the numerous cases of pious women disfiguring themselves in order to protect their virginity.

It's something horrible that we do to ourselves when under attack -- to protect ourselves. We cut away at ourselves. I see that.

I also see Chris in the carriage, ready to go. But out of the blue, something unexpected happened. She realized she was in too exposed a position, and all she could do was act nice. Smile a lot.

Someone once gave the example of a company, to which she had sent her resume, calling her boss where she currently worked for the reference. She had not intended to run afoul of her current boss! As I recall, she needed to come up with a story real quick, so as not to lose her job ...

But sometimes, through coming up against these oppositions and misunderstandings -- even if they are only within ourselves -- (maybe most of the time they are mainly within ourselves) -- we grow by this.

Actually through serious opposition we gain respect for the fact that everyone does not agree with us; nor are conditions fair. That doesn't mean that all is lost. It just means that there is not one right way to see things; not one way to act. But perhaps not feeling so philosophical, however, on the day when all the nose cutting and head shaving took place.

 

[rosada]

Cris! Give us some feed back. Does any of this make sence given your situation?
Rosada

 

[cris]

Cris! Give us some feed back. Does any of this make sence given your situation?
Rosada

Dear Yi friends,

I have not forgotten about this thread, which has given me quite a bit to think about. Most of the insights provided have been impressively inspirational, striking many chords deep inside - so deep as to make the reading's understanding long and somewhat uncomfortable. I wasn't looking for anything less, anyways. I still need to understand what the root cause for this feeling of mutilation is... I will know whom to ask, when the right time comes.


A sincere thank you to all who have been so kind as to dedicate their time and knowledge in replying.


Cris

 

[danadanadana]

38,3>14
38,3: There is a possibility that people find you argumentative, strong willed, aggressive, or competitive when they do not know you well or first meet you. They think at first that you might bite their noses off! But when they get to know you they learn about a kinder, gentler you.
14: It is your deep modesty and genuine caring and concern for your friends and family that leads you to ask this question and seek deeper insight on yourself.

 

[patro]

well...
the ic answer 38-> 14
the answer refer to your behaivor in the begin a relations with persons!
the begin is not good... you will misunderstod, but you are the one that create the misunderstod!
38 stay for Opposition... and the third line indicate what you want from other.... and you are the one that fail! you work contra yourself!
like all hex and like the tao nature any hex have a double meaning... 14 stay for Possession in Great Measure... but the 14 advaice you also to don't be arrogant! since this have negative conseguence!

Patro

 

[ginnie]

With hexagram 38 we are isolated and alone, so of course we might act out in ways not considered to be acceptable by middle-of-the-road society. But with the experience in 38.3, one in which we feel we are being held hostage -- we might understand what being heard by other people really means. It might mean for example, that I don't say one thing in one place (isolated and alone), and another thing in another place(outside with people). I may come to a new unity within myself.

At first we might not like this feeling of being constrained or held hostage, but the auspice is that it ends well.