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How can I help my cousin? 63.1.3.5 -2

rosada

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My cousin is a dear sweet soul who has not had an easy time in this life. He lives alone in a small town about a half hour drive from me so it is not easy to stay in touch but it is doable. I saw him a couple of weeks ago and he confided that his doctor has warned him he is pre-diabetic and that he ought to lose 100 pounds. When we spoke then he didn't have any plan in place to do this and in fact he seemed woefully oblivious to just how horrible diabetes really is. I emailed him a bunch of videos and info but when I called him just now he hadn't gotten around to viewing the material. I urged him to come stay with me for a couple of days, said we could study together and that we would eat healthy and get him on a new tract. He chuckled and then we talked about other things. I got the impression he wasn't resisting me so much as he just couldn't focus on making a real plan or effort. (he's a Pisces) I asked the I Ching How can I help my cousin? Just the names of the hexagrams - After Completion/The Receptive - read to me as if to say he's not receptive to anything I might say or do. In fact, it struck me as if the I Ching were saying he's already made up his mind to just let it all go period.
The lines make no sense to me. Any ideas?
Thanks!
 

becalm

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Hi Rosada, sounds to me like you've a good connection with your cousin but the lines suggest you're going way to fast for him to be Receptive of your good intentions and great suggestions. The lines also suggest it would be better to find a way to 'lure' him into this new way of healthy living....A way to a mans' Heart' and all that!!
 

rosada

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Brilliant! Thank you! Yes, I can invite him over for dinner without mentioning my agenda and I can also have a friend over who has totally restored her body through juicing. The conversation will just naturally turn to eating healthy. Again, truly, thank you!
 

rosada

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Funny how I couldn't see anything in the lines when I first read them by myself but after posting here - hooking up with our Group Master Mind! - the lines suddenly make sense:
63.1 As becalm pointed out, this line could indicate my trying to move ahead too quickly.
63.3 I see this line as a warning that what I am proposing is a bigger project than I may have considered. Also, "small people" could refer to my probably not knowing enough, but i think if I can get my friend who lost 25 pounds and avoided knee surgery because she revised her diet to come talk with him that could make a difference.
62.5 Avoid meat! Perfect confirmation that going vegetarian would help him a lot!

I am so encouraged!
 

moss elk

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Hi Rosada,

You are already (63) helping (2) him.
line 1? Don't give up too soon. (the line is about stopping a bit too soon. not starting too quickly)

line 3? You are going to have to twist his arm.
(I'll lend you some of my thunder to use on him, just think "what would that jacka$$ Moss say to him?")

line 5? Don't make a big show of it, just do it and be sincere.
Maybe he is turned off by "big deals", fusses...etc? Just show up at his door.
Keep it simple and palatable.

Save the thunder for when you are in person,
when he sees it he'll know you love him and be swayed.
If not, hit him with a piece of furniture.

Best of luck to you.
 
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kash

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I agree with Moss Elk. In particular, like 5 says to me you will get much more mileage out of being direct than by having an elaborate dinner plan involving someone else and a conversation that may or may not lead where you want it to go. Basically, just tell it like it is in the clearest, simplest way possible.

Your cousin is most likely in denial because being hit with this news and realising he needs to make some serious changes in his life is probably very difficult to deal with. Line 3 may indeed mean you need to drive the point and snap him out of it, even if it means being very harsh with him. The fact of the matter is that however difficult he thinks making changes in his life is at this point, if he does become diabetic, things will be much much worse for him and he'll be very sorry he didn't fix it when he could.

As an aside, both my mother and my aunt were diagnosed as diabetic, but while my mother didn't control hers and is now insulin dependent, my aunt has been able to completely get rid of it with dietary changes. In her case, she's following some diet called DayTwo which is matched to her gut bacteria, but I've also seen people lose a lot of weight with stuff like Keto and other diets. He just needs to come to terms with both the severity of his situation and the fact that he has the power to fix it at this point.
 

rosada

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Thank you for your continued focus on my issue!

About 63.1:
Your wheels dragged back, your tail soaked - no mistake.
Slowing your expectations to keep pace with circumstances gives you an opportunity to orient yourself. (Hilary)

I can see how one might interpret this to mean don't give up when things aren't going well, but the advice is indeed to slow down. (I hope you don't think I'm being petty pointing this out. I'm only mentioning it because we are trying to decipher the lines. "Don't stop too soon" is still good advice.)

63.3 :
The high ancestor attacks the Demon Country.
Three years go round and he overcomes it.
Don't use small people.

I can see how one might think this meant to be forceful, to "twist his arm", but it could also be referring to the fact that we're dealing with "Demons" here and thus a casual approach wouldn't be effective. Anyway, I don't think my cousin is the demon. In WikiWing Trojina makes the case that Demons are the addictions which I think fits well as my cousin seems to have a food addiction. (I don't mean to be quibbling with you, Moss, I just mention this as part of the exercise here of deciphering the meanings of the line. And I do like knowing I have your permission to throw a chair at him if it comes to that.)

The "three years" also works as a warning these habits will not change overnight. Sigh. But on the other hand, "he overcomes it" is very encouraging!

63.5:
The neighbor in the East slaughters oxen.
Not like the Western neighbor's summer offering.
Truly accepting their blessing.

Thank you both for pointing out this line would indicate there's no need for an elaborate dinner party. I was thinking of something casual but really just trying to get my cousin and my friend to both come at the same time could be a challenge. So now I'm going to focus on getting Cuz here and that should be enough.

Thank you Kash for sharing your personal story. I'll pass on the diet recommendations too.

Again thank you all so much for walking me through this. I totally freaked when I saw 63 - 2 as it seemed to say, "It's all over, nothing more can be done."
Rosada
 

moss elk

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Rosada,
I'm wishing you success with him.

We talked about 63.3 once before and I feel that because the subject matter of the line (subduing another, subjugating another, chastising another) is almost foreign to your life
experience, that you are not getting it yet.


Of the three sentences, the first is the most important,
the next two sentences only describe the difficulty of the task.
In the first sentence, if you substitute the word 'demon' with barbarians (Gui Fang),
you'll be closer to comprehending it.
It is about an actual person attacking other actual people and bringing them to order.
To say it is about his demons is overreaching and missing what is actually occurring in the line. The illustrious ancestor (you) need to Chastise him.

From the encyclopedia:
Guifang (Chinese: 鬼方; Wade–Giles: Kuei-fang) was an ancient ethnonym for a northern people that fought against the Shang Dynasty(1600-1046 BCE).

The line is not about inner demons, hangups, or derangements.
Speaking from the experience of someone who has on multiple occasions, had to actually sudbue other people in public after they had attacked someone, I am very confident about the meaning here.

Best of luck. :bows:
 

Trojina

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The line is not about inner demons, hangups, or derangements.
Speaking from the experience of someone who has on multiple occasions, had to actually sudbue other people in public after they had attacked someone, I am very confident about the meaning here.
What a peculiar statement. You declare this cannot be about inner demons because you, on many occasions have cast it about subduing other people ? So does that mean no one else's experience with the line actually counts.

That is absurd really, well nonsense.


I have cast it a fair few times over 40 odd years do you actually think I had to go chastise and subdue others every time regardless of the subject matter ? If one is asking of oneself of course it can be inner demons. What great authority can you claim to just announce, as if it were a fact because of your experience, 'this is not about inner demons'. It can be actually. Indeed according to one's question it is quite rare for it to be about going to subdue others.

What baffles me is how you count your own experience with the line above others experience ? It's as if you think only your experience has relevance. For me obviously since I wrote of it in wiki it has meant inner demons. You aren't the only one who ever had experiences with the line but do seem to imagine you know for sure and no one else's experiences counts.


Regarding the question really I cannot think of anything more infuriating than being told what to eat by a relative, or anyone else, unless a Dr. I am astounded at the attitudes of people like Moss Elk. Offer advice if he ever wants it but do more.



To say it is about his demons is overreaching and missing what is actually occurring in the line. The illustrious ancestor (you) need to Chastise him.
You really miss the point, and show a sluggish state of imagination if you think throwing some history at it means the line can never be taken as applying inwardly, to one's own barbarians.


All answers, all lines can be taken on an inward level depending on the question, obviously. If one asks about inner things the answer can be about inner things. Really I rarely hear anything so absurd as this here


The line is not about inner demons, hangups, or derangements.
Speaking from the experience of someone who has on multiple occasions, had to actually sudbue other people in public after they had attacked someone, I am very confident about the meaning here.
Try to remember, others of just as much experience as you, if not more, will also have cast this line for various questions and noticed what it's meant for them. You declaring you and only you are quite sure what it means and everyone else is wrong is very dismissive of other's experience with the line.

Don't be too confident because you are wrong. Line 3, any line, can refer to inner realities, of course they can. We aren't all engaged with what you were engaged with, use some imagination about other's lives and experience.
 

moss elk

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Oh This is just crabtasitic.

I am accused of mental mud for trying to add a little focus and rigor?

Of course I know that any line can refer to any subject matter. The choice of the word 'Demon' is bad in that translation. Because it doesn't say demon. it says Gui Fang, who were human beings. If they wanted to say 'demon', surely they could have used the word 'demon', no? as they have used a word like 'ghost' in other chapters?

A single bad word choice misleads as to the text meaning. People see 'Demon' and their imaginations run rampart.

You've accused me of declaring other's wrong and others experience wrong.
Since I contradicted no one but Rosada,
I must declare you are being a bit mental right now by saying that I have declared others experience as wrong, since I contradicted no ones experience, you've made a false statement.

The fresh air outside is attractive.
May you all enjoy it as much as I am going to.
 

radiofreewill

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Hi rosada,

"How can I help my cousin?"
63.1.3.5 to 2 ~ He needs physical, mental and emotional support/development in order to make it.

We live in a world where our addictions have become the monetized and barely regulated feeding ground of corporate interests: News Flash! The foxes are guarding the hen house!

Addiction is the enemy, not the addicted person.

In the course of teaching meditation during the last dozen years, or so, I've spent a lot of time around people under 30:

~ Caffeine
~ Social Media
~ Alcohol
~ Nicotine/Vaping
~ Weed
~ Sugar
~ Screens
~ Porn
~ Video Games
~ Food
~ Drama
~ Fear
~ The News Cycle

A friend of mine says that Addiction is "anything you can get a rush on."

All of that is arrayed against the youth ~ systematically depleting them of their own will to self-direct and leaving them in a state of learned helplessness.

Sugar, in particular, is Killing our Kids.

So, your cousin is one heartbeat that you can make a difference with ~ one out of many millions needing a transformative intervention in order to get on top of their addictions?

These people are all victims of a predatory marketplace that ignores and minimizes the damage that it does to society, at large, in the name of making a profit.

My advice is to show him lots of Love and help him to take the steps he needs to change the course of his life.

I hope this helps!
 

rosada

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The test says demon COUNTRY so even if demon means a human being the advice is to attack the country, and that would make sense as advice that the problem is not an individual but the whole environment and certainly we live in an environment where it's virtually impossible to eat healthy unless one is making very conscious choices. This leads me to feel the advice is not to attack my cousin (as Trojina points out that's not likely to be an effective strategy anyway), but rather to recognize the problem is the environment which could be both the demons in his head and the demon marketers who bombard us with ads for sugar and the stores that carry mostly processed food.
 

rosada

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Thank you radiofreewill. We crossed posts. It seems you are seeing 63.3 similarly to my interpretation that it is the marketers and the environment that is killing us. Maybe your call for an intervention is what Moss was seeing here. Not necessarily that I attack him, but that I not dance around the issue either.
 

Trojina

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I am accused of mental mud for trying to add a little focus and rigor?
I don't know what mental mud is but I don't think you were adding great rigour by your confident declaration of what the line could and couldn't be about, which I quote, again, below.

Of course I know that any line can refer to any subject matter. The choice of the word 'Demon' is bad in that translation. Because it doesn't say demon. it says Gui Fang, who were human beings. If they wanted to say 'demon', surely they could have used the word 'demon', no? as they have used a word like 'ghost' in other chapters?

A single bad word choice misleads as to the text meaning. People see 'Demon' and their imaginations run rampart.
You don't seem to know that any line can refer to any subject because you have stated very boldly

The line is not about inner demons, hangups, or derangements.
It can be, of course it can be. Perhaps you meant in this question this line isn't about inner demons. You seemed to state as a general fact.


You've accused me of declaring other's wrong and others experience wrong.
Since I contradicted no one but Rosada,
I must declare you are being a bit mental right now by saying that I have declared others experience as wrong, since I contradicted no ones experience, you've made a false statement.

Rosada I think mentioned my wiki entry and you came along to declare you had great confidence in what the line meant due to your personal experience and also said, quite categorically, that this line could not be about inner demons because demons ought to be translated as 'northern people'. Well even if it were not 'demons', it would make no difference since humans in Yi can refer to inner realities as well as outer.

A single bad word choice misleads as to the text meaning. People see 'Demon' and their imaginations run rampart.
Er I think you mean 'rampant' rather than 'rampart'. It is no real wonder I'd take issue with your post since Rosada mentioned my wiki entry and you are basically saying it's wrong, not at all about demons, I and other have let their imaginations run away with them. That's not so much rigour as condescension I feel.

Frankly anyway it's better to use some imagination in interpretation than to cleave to the dead literal, or tend to the idea these demons/barbarians have to be actual people who need subduing etc.
 

moss elk

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Er I think you mean 'rampant' rather than 'rampart'.
Yes, correct spelling.
Thank you.
:bows:

Please don't confuse disagreement with condescension. Yes. I really really really do think that saying this line is generally (or often even) about ones 'inner demons' is like saying that 52 means to Move. I see it as a fundamental error in comprehension.
And you see my perspective and observations (because they differ from yours) as some kind of condescension or slight against you.
Well, slighting you was not on my mind or intention.
So, that's all I need to say.
 
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Liselle

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In the first sentence, if you substitute the word 'demon' with barbarians (Gui Fang),
you'll be closer to comprehending it.
It is about an actual person attacking other actual people and bringing them to order.
To say it is about his demons is overreaching and missing what is actually occurring in the line. The illustrious ancestor (you) need to Chastise him.

From the encyclopedia:
Guifang (Chinese: 鬼方; Wade–Giles: Kuei-fang) was an ancient ethnonym for a northern people that fought against the Shang Dynasty(1600-1046 BCE).

The line is not about inner demons, hangups, or derangements.
Speaking from the experience of someone who has on multiple occasions, had to actually sudbue other people in public after they had attacked someone, I am very confident about the meaning here.
Yet another opinion might be that "demons" or "barbarians" doesn't matter, because it's a metaphor? At least, it is as Hilary explains it (if I understand her, that is):

The Demon Country bordered Shang (and later Zhou) territory, undermining their peace and prosperity with constant raids. This line recalls a Shang ruler, Wuding, who subdued the Demon Country at the cost of a long, hard campaign.

Demon Country is whatever lurks at the periphery of your life, disturbing your peace, threatening your achievements, and constantly returning to haunt you. If you decide to tackle this, you will need concerted, sustained effort and vigilance: gains made against Demon Country are easily lost.
So as Moss said, literally it's the "northern people" who had to be literally attacked and subdued - that's the historical context - but as a metaphor it can be greatly expanded.


Also, there's Knot's "demons of after" (vs. "demons of before" in 64) as a way to think about it.
 

rosada

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Update:
We met at our local Mexican restaurant yesterday which I had suggested because you can order a single taco a la carte meaning low calorie meal and still you get all the benefit of restaurant setting, waiters etc. So my cousin gives our order, “two beef tacos” and the guy brings us each a two taco dinner complete with rice, beans, sour cream and salsa! And no, we didn’t send them back, they were soo good. This is indeed the Demon Country!
 

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